Zimmerman Charged with Murder in the 2nd Degree. Justice!

[JP78]

speaking of Al Sharpton, he has a new girlfriend.

[SteveAJones]

OJ is a fuckin' idiot. But he'll still get his $25,000 a month NFL pension after he's released.

OJ and Rodney King....Now there's a couple icons for ya'.

Read up on the four guys Bernhard Goetz shot on the NYC subway in December 1984. Grew up to be a bunch of recidivist maggots.

[redrum]

This just in - Jimmy Carter says the Zimmerman jury "made the right decision".

Across the country, Liberals' heads are exploding.

LOL

BTW, I still think he's an idiot.

Getting one thing right doesn't absolve him of all his idiocy.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/17/jimmy-carter-george-zimmerman_n_3609912.html?icid=maing-grid7|maing5|dl2|sec3_lnk1%26pLid%3D345141&utm_hp_ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false

If I had a hammer.

[redrum]

speaking of Al Sharpton, he has a new girlfriend.

If you have money you could be a gob of spit and the babes will still flock to you.

[redrum]

Read up on the four guys Bernhard Goetz shot on the NYC subway in December 1984. Grew up to be a bunch of recidivist maggots.

I was just thinking about him the other day. I'd like to know what their rap sheets look like since then.

[Sagittarius Rising]

Read up on the four guys Bernhard Goetz shot on the NYC subway in December 1984. Grew up to be a bunch of recidivist maggots.

I am no fan of vigilantism but those four assholes had it coming, and, I was never convinced it was vigilantism. I think Goetz was scared, sick of getting rolled by thugs so he bought a gun for protection. When those four urchins approached him, he knew what was up. I think he pulled his gat just to scare them off at first but then went all PTSD on those fuckers. He had no where to go, he was on a subway and there were four of them.

I felt sorry for him, he needed psychological help, had no one, and then these four assholes decided to try and rob the wrong guy.

[JP78]

I am no fan of vigilantism but those four assholes had it coming, and, I was never convinced it was vigilantism. I think Goetz was scared, sick of getting rolled by thugs so he bought a gun for protection. When those four urchins approached him, he knew what was up. I think he pulled his gat just to scare them off at first but then went all PTSD on those fuckers. He had no where to go, he was on a subway and there were four of them.

I felt sorry for him, he needed psychological help, had no one, and then these four assholes decided to try and rob the wrong guy.

this is nothing like the zimmerman case.

[JP78]

zimmerman is too ugly for rolling stone

[SteveAJones]

this is nothing like the zimmerman case.

Given the powers that be are attempting to use the Zimmerman case to repeal Stand Your Ground laws in 31 states I'd say these two cases have more in common than meets the eye.

[henrybonzo]

isnt the stand your ground law a glorified way of defending yourself?

[Sagittarius Rising]

this is nothing like the zimmerman case.

I never said it was, I was simply expounding on Steve's comment above.

[Sagittarius Rising]

Also, the difference between the two could not be greater. Zimmerman's actions instigated the confrontation which resulted in Trayvon MArtin's death. Goetz was sitting down, did nothing, and was approached by not one but four kids who were menacing and shaking down other passengers before approaching Goetz. Goetz was also threatened according to witnesses.

Goetz was defending himself, Zimmerman caused the confrontation based on his actions. One (Goetz) was self defense, the other (Zimmerman) was clearly involuntary manslaughter.

[SteveAJones]

the other (Zimmerman) was clearly involuntary manslaughter.

If Trayvon Martin does not assault George Zimmerman he does not get shot to death.

[TypeO]

Zimmerman caused the confrontation based on his actions.

Not sure why everyone is clinging to this opinion, but it's simply not accurate.

Trayvon managed to shake Zimmerman's efforts to follow him.

From that point, it was Trayvon who made the decision to confront Zimmerman.

He had already lost him - he could easily have continued home.

Failing to do so is what precipitated the incident that resulted in his shooting.

Again, bad decisions all around.

Life seldom happens in the cut and dry, no gray area scenarios that those who oppose the verdict subscribe to, i.e., Zimmerman intentionally killed an innocent kid because he was black.

The murder of James Byrd, Jr. could be interpreted as cut and dry, no gray areas.

The Trayvon Martin case, definitely not.

What black people in this country SHOULD be outraged about is being targeted for manipulation by the media.

This case was spun consistently and unrelentingly to create racial animosity, and people who are so upset by the verdict are all victims of that deliberate manipulation.

And it originates with the current administration, which benefits more from racial strife than from racial harmony.

Obama's remarks at the outset (if I had a son, he would look like Trayvon) were grossly inappropriate and inflammatory.

He chose sides and created a false illusion of what supposedly transpired before the case ever came close to being tried.

Just look at the title of this thread.

At the time, everyone - especially the black community - considered justice to be that Zimmerman had been charged and would go to trial.

Now, it's not justice unless he's found guilty of the utmost possible charge.

What the media ignores in all of this - and would help people to get a grip on all this - is that there wasn't enough concrete evidence to bring charges in the first place.

Seminole County bowed to political pressure to bring charges in a case that shouldn't have been made to begin with.

And that same lack of concrete evidence is why he was eventually acquitted.

But the media doesn't investigate and report on that part of the story.

Because that would result in more understanding of how the verdict was reached, which, in turn, would decrease the amount of outrage.

Instead they are digging up old MySpace pages belonging to Zimmerman, ANYTHING to try to keep a racial cast to the story.

It's sickening, but people have to be aware that they are being manipulated before they can do anything about it.

[redrum]

It's sickening, but people have to be aware that they are being manipulated before they can do anything about it.

I wouldn't put it past them to lynch Zimmerman.

[Sagittarius Rising]

If Trayvon Martin does not assault George Zimmerman he does not get shot to death.

I understand what you are saying however no one but Martin and Zimmerman know what happened or who assaulted who first. This is why the law should follow the facts presented and not allow the jury to rule based on opinion alone which is what happened.

[Sagittarius Rising]

Not sure why everyone is clinging to this opinion, but it's simply not accurate.

Trayvon managed to shake Zimmerman's efforts to follow him.

From that point, it was Trayvon who made the decision to confront Zimmerman.

He had already lost him - he could easily have continued home.

Failing to do so is what precipitated the incident that resulted in his shooting.

Again, bad decisions all around.

Life seldom happens in the cut and dry, no gray area scenarios that those who oppose the verdict subscribe to, i.e., Zimmerman intentionally killed an innocent kid because he was black.

The murder of James Byrd, Jr. could be interpreted as cut and dry, no gray areas.

The Trayvon Martin case, definitely not.

What black people in this country SHOULD be outraged about is being targeted for manipulation by the media.

This case was spun consistently and unrelentingly to create racial animosity, and people who are so upset by the verdict are all victims of that deliberate manipulation.

And it originates with the current administration, which benefits more from racial strife than from racial harmony.

Obama's remarks at the outset (if I had a son, he would look like Trayvon) were grossly inappropriate and inflammatory.

He chose sides and created a false illusion of what supposedly transpired before the case ever came close to being tried.

Just look at the title of this thread.

At the time, everyone - especially the black community - considered justice to be that Zimmerman had been charged and would go to trial.

Now, it's not justice unless he's found guilty of the utmost possible charge.

What the media ignores in all of this - and would help people to get a grip on all this - is that there wasn't enough concrete evidence to bring charges in the first place.

Seminole County bowed to political pressure to bring charges in a case that shouldn't have been made to begin with.

And that same lack of concrete evidence is why he was eventually acquitted.

But the media doesn't investigate and report on that part of the story.

Because that would result in more understanding of how the verdict was reached, which, in turn, would decrease the amount of outrage.

Instead they are digging up old MySpace pages belonging to Zimmerman, ANYTHING to try to keep a racial cast to the story.

It's sickening, but people have to be aware that they are being manipulated before they can do anything about it.

Again, we don't know what really happened, we only have Zimmerman's account, and since he was fighting for his life in the courtroom there is a very good chance his side of the story was biased.

All I can say is this from my perspective. If I was walking though a community at night, in the rain and some fool begins to stalk me and then approaches me, I would take an aggressive stance, probably not hit him but definitely a WTF! Also, if some guy approached me and I saw a gun, hell yeah I would beat him unconscious for obvious self-preservation reasons.

[TypeO]

This is why the law should follow the facts presented and not allow the jury to rule based on opinion alone which is what happened.

To the contrary, the 911 call supports Zimmerman's claim that he "lost him".

Those who disagree with the verdict seem to be relying on opinion.

Again, we don't know what really happened, we only have Zimmerman's account, and since he was fighting for his life in the courtroom there is a very good chance his side of the story was biased.

Biased doesn't equal false.

Everyone has a bias filter.

Doesn't mean the essential claims - again, which are supported by the 911 call and the eyewitnesses - aren't basically true.

All I can say is this from my perspective. If I was walking though a community at night, in the rain and some fool begins to stalk me and then approaches me, I would take an aggressive stance, probably not hit him but definitely a WTF! Also, if some guy approached me and I saw a gun, hell yeah I would beat him unconscious for obvious self-preservation reasons.

First -

The gun was in a concealed carry holster.

Despite the flood of opinions otherwise, there is no evidence that he was brandishing the weapon.

Second -

You see a gun and you would engage as opposed to retreat?

Not me or most people interested in self-preservation.

Now, a 17 year-old hardhead with the typical "10-foot tall and bulletproof" mentality?

Maybe so.

Which brings us back to bad decision-making all around.

The thing that I've noticed is how people are so inclined to explain this case as if it were a movie.

To background this analogy, I'll explain how I dislike and find nothing scary about movies like Saw, because real life doesn't follow intricately-planned plots and traps requiring meticulous planning and prediction that result in people ending up handcuffed in a basement.

By the same token, in real life, nobody can lie in real-time as they're speaking to a 911 operator, thinking up an alternate reality as events are unfolding.

Yet, that's basically the scenario that is suggested by people who try to explain the incident in a way that supports claims of Zimmerman acting in a pre-meditated fashion.

For events to have unfolded so contrary to GZ's story, he would have had to been fabricating an entirely different reality over the phone to the 911 operator on the spot as he walked through the neighborhood.

It just doesn't hold up to the logic sniff-test.

Was his account biased to show him in the best-possible light?

Almost certainly.

But that doesn't mean the essential elements of the account are untrue.

Bottom line, Trayvon successfully eluded Zimmerman in the dark.

Instead of capitalizing on that success and heading home, away from the creepy-assed cracker, he doubled back and confronted Zimmerman.

That's the choice he made, and it eventually cost him his life.

Because, again, there is no predicting the results when events begin to spin out of control in a confrontation.

[LedZeppfan77]

I will confess I have not followed this trial or case. But was there not a not guilty verdict? And if so, is it not double jeapardy to try him again?

[Sagittarius Rising]

To the contrary, the 911 call supports Zimmerman's claim that he "lost him".

Those who disagree with the verdict seem to be relying on opinion.

Biased doesn't equal false.

Everyone has a bias filter.

Doesn't mean the essential claims - again, which are supported by the 911 call and the eyewitnesses - aren't basically true.

First -

The gun was in a concealed carry holster.

Despite the flood of opinions otherwise, there is no evidence that he was brandishing the weapon.

Second -

You see a gun and you would engage as opposed to retreat?

Not me or most people interested in self-preservation.

Now, a 17 year-old hardhead with the typical "10-foot tall and bulletproof" mentality?

Maybe so.

Which brings us back to bad decision-making all around.

The thing that I've noticed is how people are so inclined to explain this case as if it were a movie.

To background this analogy, I'll explain how I dislike and find nothing scary about movies like Saw, because real life doesn't follow intricately-planned plots and traps requiring meticulous planning and prediction that result in people ending up handcuffed in a basement.

By the same token, in real life, nobody can lie in real-time as they're speaking to a 911 operator, thinking up an alternate reality as events are unfolding.

Yet, that's basically the scenario that is suggested by people who try to explain the incident in a way that supports claims of Zimmerman acting in a pre-meditated fashion.

For events to have unfolded so contrary to GZ's story, he would have had to been fabricating an entirely different reality over the phone to the 911 operator on the spot as he walked through the neighborhood.

It just doesn't hold up to the logic sniff-test.

Was his account biased to show him in the best-possible light?

Almost certainly.

But that doesn't mean the essential elements of the account are untrue.

Bottom line, Trayvon successfully eluded Zimmerman in the dark.

Instead of capitalizing on that success and heading home, away from the creepy-assed cracker, he doubled back and confronted Zimmerman.

That's the choice he made, and it eventually cost him his life.

Because, again, there is no predicting the results when events begin to spin out of control in a confrontation.

Again, the 911 call is vague at best, sure he said he lost him, that does not mean he did not continue to try and find him. This is what I mean, everything you said is just conjecture, no evidence, no proof.

Now, on to the reason I would react as I stated. I am a very mellow guy by nature but my older brother was the exact opposite. He was a drug addict who killed at least one person in a drug deal gone bad in 1985. I was around many of his friends and situations growing up, usually trying to protect him from himself and those he dealt with. I found out the hard way who REALLY wins in a fight, that is, the guy who lands the first punch and keeps on punching. I trained as a martial artist since I was six because I was small for my age and was always bullied until I learned to fight back. However kids are easy, show a bit of skill and they back off. Drunk or drugged adults don't work that way. You hesitate with the wrong guy and its over baby, no matter how good of a fighter you are. Those MMA guys, fuck em, get them into a street fight with a brawler and their ass is going down guaranteed. This is my reason for attack in such a situation. If someone approaches me at night with a gun I will preemptively act otherwise I may not get the chance should I hesitate. This also proved true while I was in the Marines and served in some bad places. He who hesitates is lost, sad fact but it is the deliberate person who always come out on top. I ain't no tough guy and I have never looked for a fight, but if one comes for me I will not hesitate.

Now before you turn what I said around and claim that may be exactly what Zimmerman did, Zimmerman said otherwise as part of his defense. The only fact that matters is an adult male willingly armed himself and stalked an unarmed teenager who was exactly where he was supposed to be, not breaking any law. Since Zimmerman instigated the confrontation through his actions, Martins death becomes manslaughter with all the facts we currently have.

[missytootsweet]

I will confess I have not followed this trial or case. But was there not a not guilty verdict? And if so, is it not double jeapardy to try him again?

Rick, the Feds are looking into whether Trayvon Martin's civil rights were violated, which is permissible despite the not guilty verdict. My understanding is the FBI had run a concurrent investigation for over a year, interviewing some 30 witnesses in an effort to prove Zimmerman was a racist and came up with nothing. As a matter of fact, I believe I heard one media report he had mentored several black youths. But Al Sharpton, among others do not want to let this go.

It's done. It's a tragedy all the way around and as a parent my heart breaks for Trayvon's parents. However, it was a fair trial, the jury has spoken based on the evidence -not opinion as Sagg implied in an earlier post.

[Stryder1978]

Now before you turn what I said around and claim that may be exactly what Zimmerman did, Zimmerman said otherwise as part of his defense. The only fact that matters is an adult male willingly armed himself and stalked an unarmed teenager who was exactly where he was supposed to be, not breaking any law. Since Zimmerman instigated the confrontation through his actions, Martins death becomes manslaughter with all the facts we currently have.

Wrong again Bucko! A jury of Zimmerman's peers weighed the evidence, deliberated the judges instructions and found him NOT GUILTY of murder or manslaughter.

[Sagittarius Rising]

Wrong again Bucko! A jury of Zimmerman's peers weighed the evidence, deliberated the judges instructions and found him NOT GUILTY of murder or manslaughter.

That's a joke right? A jury? As I stated before, I would NEVER have a jury trial if innocent because jury's vote with emotion, not objectively. Jury's suck and any innocent person who chooses a jury trial over a trial by judge is insane or stupid. But than again I guess OJ was innocent too right? Of course OJ was innocent because, according to you, "A jury of peers weighed the evidence, deliberated the judges instructions and found him NOT GUILTY of murder."

Nice to finally get that cleared up, I will call the Brown & Goldman family's and let them know.

[kingzoso]

Again, the 911 call is vague at best, sure he said he lost him, that does not mean he did not continue to try and find him. This is what I mean, everything you said is just conjecture, no evidence, no proof.

Now, on to the reason I would react as I stated. I am a very mellow guy by nature but my older brother was the exact opposite. He was a drug addict who killed at least one person in a drug deal gone bad in 1985. I was around many of his friends and situations growing up, usually trying to protect him from himself and those he dealt with. I found out the hard way who REALLY wins in a fight, that is, the guy who lands the first punch and keeps on punching. I trained as a martial artist since I was six because I was small for my age and was always bullied until I learned to fight back. However kids are easy, show a bit of skill and they back off. Drunk or drugged adults don't work that way. You hesitate with the wrong guy and its over baby, no matter how good of a fighter you are. Those MMA guys, fuck em, get them into a street fight with a brawler and their ass is going down guaranteed. This is my reason for attack in such a situation. If someone approaches me at night with a gun I will preemptively act otherwise I may not get the chance should I hesitate. This also proved true while I was in the Marines and served in some bad places. He who hesitates is lost, sad fact but it is the deliberate person who always come out on top. I ain't no tough guy and I have never looked for a fight, but if one comes for me I will not hesitate.

Now before you turn what I said around and claim that may be exactly what Zimmerman did, Zimmerman said otherwise as part of his defense. The only fact that matters is an adult male willingly armed himself and stalked an unarmed teenager who was exactly where he was supposed to be, not breaking any law. Since Zimmerman instigated the confrontation through his actions, Martins death becomes manslaughter with all the facts we currently have.

If you say that "Martin's death becomes manslaughter with all the facts we currently have" and I really believe that you believe that, how come, or why did, the 6 women jury come back with a verdict of "NOT GUILTY"? If those are the "facts" how do you explain the verdict and the "fact" the George Zimmerman is now a free man? (Free in the sense that he is no longer under "house arrest" or whatever, however, George Zimmerman now knows that he will never ever be a free man). He is now a wanted and hunted man all because he protected himself, in self-defense.

As I mentioned before, anyone who wishes ill-will or harm (or even death) to this man who was found "NOT GUILTY" by a jury of his peers in a Florida court of Law, you, they or them, are far worse people in my opinion. The criminal trial is OVER. I do not understand how anyone can see or think otherwise. If George Zimmerman clearly murdered Trayvon Martin then he would be living the rest of his life in a prison cell.

The evidence, testimony, exhibits, photos, etc... was presented to the jury and was assessed by that jury. They came to the logical conclusion and verdict that they evaluated and that was presented before them. How much more can one say about this and how much hatred does one have that does not agree with the final verdict?

If anyone disagrees with the verdict (and I realize that there are millions of African-Americans that do), blame the prosecution. If you really believe that Zimmerman killed a black teenager (in self-defense) got away with murder 2, I say protest the Florida states attorneys office. Don't riot, rob, loot, rape and plunder and kill innocent Americans (white or Hispanic) just because others say that that is the only way to vent your hatred and anger.

[SteveAJones]

I understand what you are saying however no one but Martin and Zimmerman know what happened or who assaulted who first. This is why the law should follow the facts presented and not allow the jury to rule based on opinion alone which is what happened.

The prosecution and defense presented evidence and testimony to the jury with a judge presiding. To reach a ruling on opinion alone they would have had to forego the trial altogether.