Zimmerman Charged with Murder in the 2nd Degree. Justice!

[redrum]

that BART cop would be in for life.

They're about as much of a 'cop' as I am.

[TypeO]

I would not say he is choosing sides, rather pointing out the obvious.

Well, of course YOU would not say it.

It's only "obvious" to the part of the country that clings to the Injustice dialog that's being so heavily promoted.

What's "obvious" to the rest of us is, once again, Obama proves he's the most divisive President in our nation's history.

It's not even the first time he's done it, either.

He inserts himself into events and attempts to manipulate opinion like no President before.

Maybe you had different experiences than I growing up but as a white guy in Chicago, NY, San Diego, N.Carolina, and Phoenix I never experienced profiling, harassment, racism, discrimination, or abuse in any way. I had many black friends, especially in Chicago, NY, & Carolina and they were always being hassled. Always getting shit on. I remember being in college in Chicago, working at a carpet distribution warehouse when I asked the foreman why there were no black or latino's working there. He told me, "we do not hire blacks or Mexican's, they are all lazy and unreliable." This was in 1989, not 1959.

Very little has changed in the USA since than. We had the BART cop murder an innocent, unarmed black man, caught on video no less, and he is convicted on involuntary manslaughter and serves less than a year in jail. I guarantee you if that kid was white that BART cop would be in for life. The video itself is chilling to watch, it's on YouTube so take a look. This kid was not doing anything, just sitting against the wall where this same cop threw him a few minutes before. The cop gets upset at the kid trying to diffuse the situation, throws him down and executes him. How did the officer(s) react to this? Like they did not give a fucking shit, more like, fuck, who the hell is gonna clean up this mess. No CPR, no "Oh my god!!!! I just accidentally shot this guy!!!! Oh my god HELP!!!" Nope, none of that just a look of, great, another mess to clean up.

That is what Obama is talking about. I may be white but I ain't blind. I don't care if it is a BART cop or Al Sharpton, a racist is a racist. However, the big difference is when Al Sharpton talks shit it is based on frustration and hundreds of years of slavery and abuse. When a white guy does it there is no excuse because we have been ruling shit on this globe for 2,000 years!

Think about it, are ALL the other races in America wrong and only the white race is right? When the Native American's act up they are racists? When the Latino's act up they are racist? When the black's act up they are racist? But when White's act up it is because of reverse racism and not our fault? That is just wrong.

Oh, OK.

I get it now.

It's the new enemy, the American White Male, and he's ALWAYS fucking wrong.

Jesus, you cherry-pick a few notable instances, and that proves everything?

Very little has changed since then (1989)?

No one, least of all I, suggests that racism doesn't exist in this country.

I am more consistent in my opposition to racism than most.

But to suggest very little has changed since 1989 defies even the most charitable logic.

I just don't have the will to continue with these types of debates.

Your bias is equal (or even greater) to mine, so there's little point.

I truly grow weary.

[Disco Duck]

One of my friends has a term for what you keep doing. She calls it whitesplaining. Whitesplaining is when a white person dismisses a person of color's experiences or perceptions and insists their own preceptions are the correct ones. People who insist on whitesplaining never consider that people of color know more about racism than they do. At its core whitesplaining is about a refusal to acknowledge white privilege combined with a whole lot of arrogance. There is a feminist equivalent, mansplaining, that alludes to the same arrogance and dismissiveness.

Oh, OK.
I get it now.

It's the new enemy, the American White Male, and he's ALWAYS fucking wrong.

[pottedplant]

[mstork]

Using Al Sharpton as an excuse is akin to using David Duke as an example of the typical white person.

They both deserved to be shunned from society. Duke has been, while The Reverend pulls down a big salary from NBC news and enjoys seemingly unfettered access to the President of the United States.

[SuperDave]

What's "obvious" to the rest of us is, once again, Obama proves he's the most divisive President in our nation's history.

It's not even the first time he's done it, either.

He inserts himself into events and attempts to manipulate opinion like no President before.

[SuperDave]

Could not add what I had to say below the quote for some reason. That's been happening recently. Here it is below, but not much as I don't want to get to involved with this.

Well being diverse as you say for Obama in his case is not necessarily a good thing on his part. With his comments regarding this case it only seems he's trying to stir things up and not in a positive way.

Can't understand why the black community gives Sharpton any credibilty, considering what he has done in the past. The guy should be spending most of his life behind bars from the Tawana Brawley case, Crown Heights Diamond murder, drug trafficking in the late 70's and tax evasion. That is what we know about this piece of crap, but he always gets away with it for some reason. Unbelievable. You try doing this and see what happens. Probably only because he is a so called and self proclaimed civil rights leader (what a joke that is) and a reverend the same. It's probably because if the police and/or government went after him, his community would declare racism. The evidence is seemed to be backed up. The guy is such trash and Jessie Jackson is the same. Look into his past. Nothing stellar there.

Plenty of black leaders out there trying to do well and do things in a good way in their localized communities but these two aren't that. They're part of the problem!

[Sagittarius Rising]

Well, of course YOU would not say it.

It's only "obvious" to the part of the country that clings to the Injustice dialog that's being so heavily promoted.

What's "obvious" to the rest of us is, once again, Obama proves he's the most divisive President in our nation's history.

It's not even the first time he's done it, either.

He inserts himself into events and attempts to manipulate opinion like no President before.

I just don't have the will to continue with these types of debates.

Your bias is equal (or even greater) to mine, so there's little point.

I truly grow weary.

Obama the most divisive, really? How about Bush Jr. and his, "you are either with us or against us" speech? How about Truman and the HUAC committee? Better yet, how about both Buchanan & Lincoln, divisive enough to divide a nation resulting in civil war?

Regarding the latter, I too grow weary, weary of a group of people who have had 99.9% of the pie for a good part of history pissed off that they now have to actually SHARE it. I mean really, the nerve of those non-whites!

[SteveAJones]

A group of people who EARNED 99.9% of the pie for a good part of history pissed off that they ARE STILL EXPECTED TO KEEP FUNDING FREE RIDES. I mean really, the nerve of those non-whites!

Fixed that for you.

[cryingbluerain]

Fixed that for you.

Beat me to it. Well played.

[Disco Duck]

Fixed that for you.

You're full of it. African-Americans' blood and sweat helped build this country. Who do you think performed the back-breaking labor of growing the cash crops (tobacco, cotton, etc.) that America exported during the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries? African-American soldiers have fought in every one of this country's wars starting with the French Indian War. White men have controlled the American economy and politics from the very beginning. They established the parameters under which women and non-whites have been forced to operate. As a result, the lion's share of the blame for any of the country's social problems must be laid at their feet.

[SteveAJones]

You're full of it. African-Americans' blood and sweat helped build this country. Who do you think performed the back-breaking labor of growing the cash crops (tobacco, cotton, etc.) that America exported during the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries? African-American soldiers have fought in every one of this country's wars starting with the French Indian War. White men have controlled the American economy and politics from the very beginning. They established the parameters under which women and non-whites have been forced to operate. As a result, the lion's share of the blame for any of the country's social problems must be laid at their feet.

I fixed what Sagittarius had posted to make a distinction between those who have earned their personal wealth and the freeloaders. He was playing the race card, not I. However, since you bring it up - social problems - I'd like to see a little less finger-pointing and a little more soul searching within the black community on these: black on black crime....the black teen pregnancy epidemic...black broken families.

Or you can just continue blaming white people.

[mstork]

Does everyone realize that Zimmerman mentored two black youths whose dad is serving a life sentence? What a racist.

THIS is what's upsetting to a lot of people. This case is tragic and sad but in no way is it a new Emmet Till. I expect Sharpton to use any excuse to pit blacks against whites, it appears to be his job. I expect much, much more from the President of the United States. Of all the skills he brought to the office it truly appears that "community organizing" (whatever the hell that means) is his greatest skill.

[justawoman]

However, since you bring it up - social problems - I'd like to see a little less finger-pointing and a little more soul searching within the black community on these: black on black crime....the black teen pregnancy epidemic...black broken families.

Or you can just continue blaming white people.

*Snap*

[Sagittarius Rising]

Fixed that for you.

You failed to fix shit, only point out your obvious insecurities just as I had stated. Disco Duck is 100% spot on, you on the other hand either have quite a bit to learn or are simply obtuse beyond reason.

[SteveAJones]

You failed to fix shit, only point out your obvious insecurities just as I had stated. Disco Duck is 100% spot on, you on the other hand either have quite a bit to learn or are simply obtuse beyond reason.

Insecurities?! I am as certain in my beliefs as Ted Nugent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmDFRvRKFfI

[zeppy668]

I don't really understand why there's so much criticism for what Obama said. I think when he made his first comment about Martin last year, it was done rather hastily and could have been performed at a higher standard as to not allow his critics the easy target for which he gave them. I don't see that this time around. He spoke as the first black POTUS and as a black man; what non-black individual can argue his perspective?

At the end of the day, all he said was blacks are profiled and blacks know they are profiled. We must, as a nation, ask why that is. And if the answer is it's because they are continuously proven to be more likely to commit crime, then we must find the dialogue to break through to them.

Ask yourself a question: You're driving through the ghetto. Windows down, doors unlocked. Would you be more inclined to roll them up and lock the doors if you heard Johnny Cash blasting from the corner with a bunch of shady white men standing there or if you heard Tupac blasting from the corner with a bunch of shady black men standing there?

[SteveAJones]

I don't really understand why there's so much criticism for what Obama said. I think when he made his first comment about Martin last year, it was done rather hastily and could have been performed at a higher standard as to not allow his critics the easy target for which he gave them. I don't see that this time around. He spoke as the first black POTUS and as a black man; what non-black individual can argue his perspective?

The criticism exists because he has TWICE now played the race card in a matter that beyond a reasonable doubt had nothing to do with race. I'll just sit back and watch the lemmings march in protest over the verdict as cities and states go bankrupt, the borders remain unsecured, energy costs escalate and the national unemployment rate remains at 10%-30%.

[TypeO]

At the end of the day, all he said was blacks are profiled and blacks know they are profiled. We must, as a nation, ask why that is. And if the answer is it's because they are continuously proven to be more likely to commit crime, then we must find the dialogue to break through to them.

That's actually a fair enough question.

It's the answer that puts everyone right back at odds, and SAJ touched on it earlier.

Profiling is very similar to stereotyping, and as the saying goes, it wouldn't be a stereotype if there wasn't truth to it.

One person's profiling is another person's common sense.

I'm not going to estimate percentages, but crime statistics support what a large percentage of crime is committed by young black males.

It's a fact.

And it doesn't matter if you're black or white or other, they victimize everyone.

And you can back-door the blame back to us evil white males all you want, but in the end, young black males have to take responsibility for themselves.

And black families have to take responsibility for their own.

And adult black males have to take responsibility for the children they father.

But that's not happening much.

Instead, the black community rallies around Al Sharpton's cries of racism when a young black male dies at the hands of a person who, for a change, isn't also black.

And they feel vindication in a President that panders to the volatile emotion that was whipped into a rabid, fever pitch by the media.

This despite the fact that - as I mentioned previously - Zimmerman actually protested against the Sanford PD in defense of a young black male who had been beaten.

This despite the fact that - as mstork mentioned previously - Zimmerman actually mentored two black youths whose dad is serving a life sentence.

Did Zimmerman profile Trayvon?

Probably.

Does that make him a racist?

No.

Just like all the black people running around with I Am Trayvon shirts on, so could many non-black people - like myself - be wearing I Am George Zimmerman shirts.

Not because I support him, or think he was without any blame whatsoever (I don't), I simply recognize he found himself in an untenable position and feared for his life.

Because in the heat of the moment, in the dark, I could just as easily misinterpret some young black male's intentions.

And were he to get the drop on me and start pounding my lights out, should I just lay there in my white guilt and realize I had this coming for misinterpreting his intentions?

If I had a gun in my waistband, would I not feel I had little choice but to grab it and fire before I lost consciousness, perhaps forever?

Would I deserve to die for profiling that young black male any more than Trayvon deserved to die for being profiled (rightly or wrongly is a moot point now)?

There are a number of heinous black on white crimes that barely get a mention or are completely ignored by the media.

Why do you think that is?

There have been a number of specific senseless black on white attacks where that's for Trayvon was shouted repeatedly, but get little of no media coverage.

Why do you think that is?

That's as much a part of the Trayvon Martin story as all the protests are.

But for me to suggest the media, as a willing accomplice to the current administration and Democrats in general, is perpetuating a narrative that this country is basically South Africa/Apartheid 2.0 makes me a racist, white privilege male.

But then, so does my pointing out the obvious regarding the black community's responsibilities.

I've said before on this board - although, admittedly, some of those threads were probably deleted - that even though I won't be alive to see it, I'll be so happy when this whole world eventually becomes just various shades of tan, and race becomes meaningless.

I've never really felt pride because of my race.

Pride in family, pride in country - yes.

Pride in race?

Not really.

Which is why I find it so annoying and counter-productive for blacks to put race ahead of almost everything.

I've also said before, that despite what others think they know about me, I have no fear of becoming a minority, as the population trends suggest.

I do find it sad, however, that it doesn't appear things will get better when blacks and latinos become the majority.

Because every indicator, including the Trayvon Martin case, reveals that instead of taking the approach of "now that we're in charge, we'll do a better job of running things than those evil white people did", that the sentiment will more than likely be "now that we're in charge we're gonna make them pay and suffer like we did".

In other words, it's not that they want things to be better than before.

They don't want to prove they can make the world a better place.

They just want to be the ones in charge for a change.

And that's just sad.

[zeppy668]

The criticism exists because he has TWICE now played the race card in a matter that beyond a reasonable doubt had nothing to do with race. I'll just sit back and watch the lemmings march in protest over the verdict as cities and states go bankrupt, the borders remain unsecured, energy costs escalate and the national unemployment rate remains at 10%-30%.

Reasonable doubt to some, not for others. As a black man, he's entitled to his opinion. And yes, because he is who he is, his words have consequences. I agree his words last year were poorly delivered. But I don't see him race-baiting or whatever this time around. He clearly felt he owed it to not only African-Americans but to all Americans to say what he had to say. And for once, I wish people would leave it at that.

To your second point, if the black community can finally wake up and start working internally to fix the problems that plague their culture that produce distrust towards other races (specifically whites) and economic dyslexia, I think we can all agree it's worth the marching now for the results later. That's the message the Civil Rights leaders unanimously preached (despite disagreeing on the means of achieving it) and it's a message largely ignored or forgotten by today's young black community.

[TypeO]

Ouch.

[zeppy668]

That's actually a fair enough question.

It's the answer that puts everyone right back at odds, and SAJ touched on it earlier.

Profiling is very similar to stereotyping, and as the saying goes, it wouldn't be a stereotype if there wasn't truth to it.

One person's profiling is another person's common sense.

I'm not going to estimate percentages, but crime statistics support what a large percentage of crime is committed by young black males.

It's a fact.

And it doesn't matter if you're black or white or other, they victimize everyone.

And you can back-door the blame back to us evil white males all you want, but in the end, young black males have to take responsibility for themselves.

And black families have to take responsibility for their own.

And adult black males have to take responsibility for the children they father.

But that's not happening much.

Instead, the black community rallies around Al Sharpton's cries of racism when a young black male dies at the hands of a person who, for a change, isn't also black.

And they feel vindication in a President that panders to the volatile emotion that was whipped into a rabid, fever pitch by the media.

This despite the fact that - as I mentioned previously - Zimmerman actually protested against the Sanford PD in defense of a young black male who had been beaten.

This despite the fact that - as mstork mentioned previously - Zimmerman actually mentored two black youths whose dad is serving a life sentence.

Did Zimmerman profile Trayvon?

Probably.

Does that make him a racist?

No.

Just like all the black people running around with I Am Trayvon shirts on, so could many non-black people - like myself - be wearing I Am George Zimmerman shirts.

Not because I support him, or think he was without any blame whatsoever (I don't), I simply recognize he found himself in an untenable position and feared for his life.

Because in the heat of the moment, in the dark, I could just as easily misinterpret some young black male's intentions.

And were he to get the drop on me and start pounding my lights out, should I just lay there in my white guilt and realize I had this coming for misinterpreting his intentions?

If I had a gun in my waistband, would I not feel I had little choice but to grab it and fire before I lost consciousness, perhaps forever?

Would I deserve to die for profiling that young black male any more than Trayvon deserved to die for being profiled (rightly or wrongly is a moot point now)?

There are a number of heinous black on white crimes that barely get a mention or are completely ignored by the media.

Why do you think that is?

There have been a number of specific senseless black on white attacks where that's for Trayvon was shouted repeatedly, but get little of no media coverage.

Why do you think that is?

That's as much a part of the Trayvon Martin story as all the protests are.

But for me to suggest the media, as a willing accomplice to the current administration and Democrats in general, is perpetuating a narrative that this country is basically South Africa/Apartheid 2.0 makes me a racist, white privilege male.

But then, so does my pointing out the obvious regarding the black community's responsibilities.

I've said before on this board - although, admittedly, some of those threads were probably deleted - that even though I won't be alive to see it, I'll be so happy when this whole world eventually becomes just various shades of tan, and race becomes meaningless.

I've never really felt pride because of my race.

Pride in family, pride in country - yes.

Pride in race?

Not really.

Which is why I find it so annoying and counter-productive for blacks to put race ahead of almost everything.

I've also said before, that despite what others think they know about me, I have no fear of becoming a minority, as the population trends suggest.

I do find it sad, however, that it doesn't appear things will get better when blacks and latinos become the majority.

Because every indicator, including the Trayvon Martin case, reveals that instead of taking the approach of "now that we're in charge, we'll do a better job of running things than those evil white people did", that the sentiment will more than likely be "now that we're in charge we're gonna make them pay and suffer like we did".

In other words, it's not that they want things to be better than before.

They don't want to prove they can make the world a better place.

They just want to be the ones in charge for a change.

And that's just sad.

I think you make some good points:

1. I think it's a double-edged sword. Young black men need to realize education is the only way they are going to rise up in society. Unfortunately, bad mentoring through the media and black culture arising from poor leadership has lead to the stereotype that society is keeping the black man down. There's never any mention that the two biggest role models in the African-American community are professional athletes and rap artists. You have two professions that are fantasy to 95% of ALL people and yet, there's no serious reinforcement within the communities to steer children away from those distorted fantasies. Of course you also have the street hustler, who can earn up to 1,000 bucks a day by selling dope and not having to leave his block. Yet, that produces high rates of gang violence. So, the issue is not just the culture but the culture in which the black community has allowed itself to become affixiated with. The flip side is the system knows that young black men are largely disproportionately targeted for drug, theft and violent crime because statistics back up those claims. The system targets them so it's become the status quo. The prison system is a billion dollar enterprise. The drug war is a billion dollar enterprise. So there's little incentive to change anything.

2. I agree with your point about Sharpton. He's not the right leader for the black community. But he's one of their top leaders because he's provocative, usually leads the charge during a protest and has credentials in the national media that allows his microphone to reach a wider audience. But that doesn't make him the right leader. He's weak and comes of as a moron most of the time. The black community needs real leaders to stand up and take on the problems from within, not from outside. Bill Cosby is still one of the few outspoken black entertainers who actually knows what he's talking about. Yet, no one takes him seriously because his television "good guy" image trumps over anything he preaches. That's a problem.

3. I don't take pride in being white either but perhaps that's because I've never had to outwardly face criticism or discrimination for it. I certainly don't use my Native American ancestry to disadvantage others even if I sometimes believe Native Americans have more reasons to bitch than African-Americans.

4. The media is the one who played the race card here. They made this about division from Day 1. Why? Because they know they have everyone by the balls. Whether you agree or disagree, have an opinion or don't, the fact that we're sitting here talking about the media's influence and their role in this whole thing shows that they know they've got all of us exactly where they want us: at each other's throats while real issues (as many have listed) continue to plague ALL Americans and others around the world.

[Walter]

(CNN) - Four days after he was acquitted of murder, George Zimmerman stepped out of seclusion to help a family get out of an overturned vehicle in Florida, authorities said Monday.

Zimmerman and another man helped four people get out of an SUV that had overturned Wednesday evening in Sanford -- the same community where the former neighborhood watch volunteer fatally shot unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin in 2012 -- Seminole County Sheriff's Office spokeswoman Heather Smith said.

Authorities were called after the SUV went off the road and rolled over in the area of Interstate 4 and State Road 46. By the time a deputy arrived, Zimmerman and another man already had helped the two adults and two children out of the vehicle, Smith said.

Zimmerman did not witness the crash, and he left after making contact with the deputy, Smith said. No injuries were reported.

Zimmerman has been out of the public eye since a jury found him not guilty of second degree murder on July 13. His parents told ABC News last week that their family has received an "enormous amount of death threats."

He fatally shot Martin in the Sanford neighborhood where Zimmerman and Martin's father lived in February 2012. Zimmerman, a Hispanic man, had a confrontation with the African-American teen after calling police to report a suspicious person, and he said he shot Martin in self-defense.

The case became a flashpoint in debates over racial profiling, and thousands attended vigils across the country over the weekend, decrying the verdict.

[TypeO]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jul/22/actor-james-woods-takes-twitter-trash-obamas-pro-t/

James Woods, one of Hollywood’s best-known actors, took to Twitter over the weekend to decry President Obama’s impromptu defense of Trayvon Martin, the 17-year-old killed by George Zimmerman in self-defense in Florida, and suggested that race was not an issue in the acquittal.

Mr. Obama’s statements on Friday:

“When Trayvon Martin was first shot, I said that this could have been my son.

Another way of saying that is, ‘Trayvon Martin could have been me 35 years ago.’”

And Mr. Woods‘ tweeted response:

“Just curious. Does the president of the United States have any advice for other teenage boys in America? Wounded warriors for example,” Newsmax reported.

Another tweet from Mr. Woods:

“The only reason people lock their car doors when Obama walks by is they are afraid he’ll tax them to death.”

And another, Newsmax reported:

“The race issues in America that have bedeviled this nation for decades could be greatly resolved with JOBS and EDUCATION and SKILLS TRAINING.”

And one more, from the actor:

“Racial integration has worked in the Armed Forces because everyone has a job, gets training in a skill and MUST respect the rank of others.”

Bravo, Mr. Woods.

Nice to see that not all of Hollywood is programmed into the radical leftist mindset.

[SteveAJones]

To your second point, if the black community can finally wake up and start working internally to fix the problems that plague their culture that produce distrust towards other races (specifically whites) and economic dyslexia, I think we can all agree it's worth the marching now for the results later.

Generally speaking, these protests have nothing to do with cleaning up their own backyard and everything to do with a repeal of the Stand Your Ground law in 31 states. Oftentimes the "protests" turn pointless and become nothing more than a hood rat convention.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIQZCjdU7Bk