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Led Zeppelin and Religion: A fan's perspective


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All of the band had separate guest lists. Cole's presence does NOT indicate that he is completely welcome in the "fold" again, though I do think that all of the members have mellowed over the years and adopted something of a "life's too short" philosophy, preferring to focus on the good times rather than the bad.

Glad to see you on here today, Knebby! I was hoping you would chime in on this subject - thank you for the added information.

:beer:

Do you know why Cole wasn't sued after not one, but two books put out with all of those "distorted" stories as Robert has said and Jimmy wouldn't even read?

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I'm sorry if you've been mis-led into thinking that Zeppelin put "backwards messages" into their music. They really didn't. To paraphrase Robert, if they were going to go to all the trouble of doing that, the messages would have been "Buy our records".

That's right and as a by the way if one plays any live performance of the song backwards they'll hear the same alleged messages. It's complete nonsense!

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What is meant by musicians who create the music is one thing. What meaning the listener gives to the music is another. Anyone can find "evidence" for religious meaning anywhere they want in any music - doesn't mean a thing about the music itself but it says a lot about the listener. History is full of people killing other people because of "evidence" found in the most innocent of things. I don't see any reason to perpetuate that kind of thinking - especially when we are talking about musicians of the caliber of Led Zeppelin.

Edited by lif
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That's right and as a by the way if one plays any live performance of the song backwards they'll hear the same alleged messages. It's complete nonsense!

True, a guy while I was in college played a version of STH he himself performed, backwards, and it contained said alleged message(s).

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Understood. I was referring to the quote you used from Robert to prove your point.

Overall Plant had a negative opinion of the book and not just the source. There were other quotes but this one seemed like the best to at least cast doubt on the book. I don't think it's a terrible thing I just think people tend to put too much stock in that one book for Zep info. I didn't criticize all his sources just the one because the band is so anti-Hammer Of The Gods I don't think we should use it to debate their opinion. That's just my opinion.

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Glad to see you on here today, Knebby! I was hoping you would chime in on this subject - thank you for the added information.

:beer:

Do you know why Cole wasn't sued after not one, but two books put out with all of those "distorted" stories as Robert has said and Jimmy wouldn't even read?

Hi :):beer:

I'm only guessing but I suspect that litigation may possibly have destroyed much of the mystique the band had worked so hard to create (not to mention dragged a few skeletons out of the closet). I think the attitude was very much "if he's that desperate, he's more to be pitied than scolded" - karma would do its work.

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I'm sorry if you've been mis-led into thinking that Zeppelin put "backwards messages" into their music. They really didn't. To paraphrase Robert, if they were going to go to all the trouble of doing that, the messages would have been "Buy our records".

I didn't say Led Zeppelin put backward messages into their music. What I'm saying is that, there is proof of that in Stairway to Heaven. When parts of the song are played backwards, I can hear the words that are in bold below. Here are some examples below of what I'm talking about:

1. Cause I Live With Satan (Your Stairway Lies On The Whispering Wind)

2. The Lord Turned Me Off It (The Piper's Calling You To Join Him)

3. Here's To My Sweet Satan! I Wanna Live It Backwards Like The Zep Whose Power Is Satan. He Will Give You, Give You 666 (Yes There Are Two Paths You Can Go By But In The Long Run There's Still Time To Change The Road You're On)

Quotes from Video:

4.Robert Plant:

"cynical aside about a woman getting everything she wanted all the time without giving back any thought or consideration." Eddie McSquare, Led Zeppelin: Good Times Bad Times, pg 50

5. Robert Plant:

"Page had written the chords and played them for me. I was holding a paper and a pencil, and for some reason, I was in a very bad mood. Then all of a sudden I was writing out words. 'There's a lady who's sure all that glitters is gold, and she's buying a stairway to heaven.' I just sat there and looked at the words and then I almost leapt out of my seat." Stephen Davis, Hammers of the Gods, pg. 151

Jimmy Page:

"He must have written three quarters of the lyrics on the spot", said Page. "He didn't have to go away and think about them. Amazing really." Ibid.

Bob Garcia of A&M Records: "It must be the Devil because nobody here knows how to do it."

Aleister Crowley: Magick: Appendix VII: "Listen to phonograph records reversed, and let him so accustom himself to these that they appear natural and appreciable as a whole."

If anyone is interesting in watching the video where I got the information above from, go here, http://theater.goodfight.org/, and type in Stairway to Heaven in the search box.

Edited by FutureRockStar3
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However, just for the record, I'd like to ask the obvious question:

If the video hadn't pointed them out, do you really think you would have heard them?

Had it not been for the video, I wouldn't have known about the backward messages in Stairway to Heaven, because I don't listen to my albums backwards, LOL! If I did, I'm not sure if I would have gotten everything completely or not, but you can honestly hear them in the video. You have to really be paying attention to catch them though.

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Did you catch the bit about the 'little toolshed'? That's pretty cool.

Yes, I did, but I'm not trying to be a tool. I own every Led Zeppelin album except for How the West Was Won, and The Best of Led Zeppelin: Early Days: Volume One, so I am by no means a new fan of the band. I used to be a member on these boards under a different name years ago, but forgot what that was. I was unable to relocate it, so I had to create another account.

I was simply interested in sharing things about this band, that some may not have known, if any of the sources are correct.

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But if they really had put satanic backwards messages or subliminals in any of their songs, don't you think they'd have won over more converts for the Horny One by now?

Even if no one in the band put them in Stairway to Heaven, they are definitely there and got there somehow. If they were Satanists, their goal would be to keep them away from God, but their fans wouldn't have to become Satanists though.

I haven't spotted many here. And the only satanists I've ever known have been people with profund social inadequacies who thought they were making themselves more interesting or attractive by sucking satan's cock, but instead ended up as bigger assholes with even bigger problems than they started out with. And I don't think JP, RP or anyone else in the LZ camp falls into that category, do you?

His two young sons, Karac Pendragon and Logan Romero died at very young ages. Some people believe that was his punishment for dabbling in the Occult, though in reality, I obviously don't know.

Edited by FutureRockStar3
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I also heard that Marlyn Manson secretly sold his soul to God and if you play his albums backwards you can hear him sing "Oh How I Love Jesus."

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His two young sons, Karac Pendragon and Logan Romero died at very young ages. Some people believe that was his punishment for dabbling in the Occult, though in reality, I obviously don't know.

Logan turned 33 in January of this year.

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What if the listener doesn't speak English? What do they hear?

This was just a smarty pants reply. Though I believe that the rules of back masking are that the message has to be in the same language in which the original dialogue took place.

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This was just a smarty pants reply. Though I believe that the rules of back masking are that the message has to be in the same language in which the original dialogue took place.

The point I'm making is backwards or forwards it's all Greek - so to speak - to those who don't understand English.

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What I really have here is a question for two types of people I'm sure are on the board. The devoutly religious and the devoutly non-religious. This is not a question for people who don't care either way. And here it is:

To the non-religious: How do you feel about the religious content in Led Zeppelin's songs? Does it bother you to listen to songs like In My Time Of Dying and Nobody's Fault But Mine (as well as various things in medleys such as John Paul Jones playing Amazing Grace) or do you just not listen to these songs?

To the religious: How do you feel about the pagan content in Led Zeppelin's songs? Does it bother you to listen to songs like Immigrant Song and Achilles Last Stand or do you just not listen to these songs?

I tend to view the "religious content" of the songs you mentioned (specifically) as more of a historical/lyrical representation of the old black "spirituals" - they're old blues songs repurposed for heavy metal, using the tortured imagery from the (former) slaves' music. I listen to "In My Time of Dying" more often than most of their other songs, but that doesn't meant that I believe that "Jesus is gonna' make up my dyin' bed." (I'm not sure if any of the boys did, either - it certainly didn't stop them from certain "evil ways," if you catch my drift.)

Edited by Melcórë
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Logan turned 33 in January of this year.

I read this part wrong on Wikipedia:

"sons Karac Pendragon (1972–1977) (died of a virus; the reason Led Zeppelin's 1977 North American Tour was cut short), and Logan Romero" (1979).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_plant#Personal_life

The way I read it, I thought something happened to Logan also. Thanks for clearing that up SteveAJones!

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Oh not the Hammer of The Gods what a piece of trash that is - don't care much for Richard Cole. Who knows why he was backstage at the O2, Perhaps someone from Atlantic Records invited him? Any way I wouldn't believe a word of it, just rot.

In terms of Crowley I agree with Jimmy I think he is a misunderstood genius, who was years ahead of his time. I don't agree with everything Crowley wrote or stands for but do appreciate his insight on many things. I find Thelema a very interesting study, but is a bit to dogmatic for me personally. Crowley came about during a period of history where sexuality, pleasure etc. were repressed he fought against this and felt it to be harmful of which I concur. He did love a scandal though he was pretty cheeky that way.

In terms of the religion thing - I'm more Pagan than anything and definitely not a Christian. However Christian references in songs such as these don't bother me in the least. Really from a historical reference these we're often covers or songs representing the Blues and religion was apart of that culture.

Edited by ZoSo1960
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Yes, I did, but I'm not trying to be a tool. I own every Led Zeppelin album except for How the West Was Won, and The Best of Led Zeppelin: Early Days: Volume One, so I am by no means a new fan of the band. I used to be a member on these boards under a different name years ago, but forgot what that was. I was unable to relocate it, so I had to create another account.

I was simply interested in sharing things about this band, that some may not have known, if any of the sources are correct.

Like 'Half-price Sushi', 'video expose' are words to be approached with caution. Most of these so-called 'video exposes' are hackneyed hatchet-jobs with dubious agendas and tenuous tethers to reality. In other words, they're frequently full of shit.

All of which I gave you a pass, at first, FutureRockStar3, figuring you were just a newbie. I figured Sam, Knebby, Jahfin, Steve, Walter, somebody, would enlighten you and that would be that. But no, even after people tried to explain the situation, you still persisted in propulgating the tired accusations of 'satanic backmasting'.

Which, again, I intended to let slide until I read your above post, where you say you're a long-time fan of the band and have all their albums, etc. In that case, I no longer felt reticent about responding to your gibberish, since I don't have to worry I am hurting the feelings of a young kid or a new fan of Led Zeppelin who doesn't know any better.

First of all, you should change your name from Future Rock Star to Future Door-to-Door Jehovah's Witness or Future Ranter in Central Park. Actually, as gullible as you seem, Future Victim of Ponzi Scheme seems likely.

Where, oh where, to begin with your hallucinations?

First things first, for the sake of his family, let's reiterate the fact that LOGAN is still very much ALIVE!!! Just wonderin' Rock Star, was the source for your 'Logan died early' bombshell the same source you use to drop your 'satanic messages' nuggets of knowledge on us poor unsaved, unenlightened souls?

I especially love the part where you say you're just sharing your knowledge of the band for those who may not know, "IF ANY OF THE SOURCES ARE CORRECT"!!! Oh, so you acknowledge that your sources may be bogus, yet you still insist on pontificating as if you alone know the truth. Everything you bring up has already been hashed and rehashed and refuted over in the Newbie section, which is where your beezlebub balderdash belongs.

My favourite part might be where you say even if Jimmy or Robert didn't put in the messages in "Stairway to Heaven", they are still there. Whoa...wait a minute...are you saying that gremlins came in the studio when the band wasn't there and put in their demonic yodelings? You can't be that stupid?

I don't know why this is so hard for people to grasp, but if you play a record backwards and think you hear a phrase, then obviously you would have to hear that phrase sound backwards when you played the record correctly. For instance, listen to the Beatles "Revolution #9" and you hear gibberish that, when played backwards, you can then understand. The same goes for the beginning of Grandaddy's "Crystal Lake".

Listen to "Stairway to Heaven"...there is NO gibberish...every word, every vocal is a recognizable word and phrase. There's no backwards sounding gibberish when you play the song forward. Hence, no sudden satanic phrases when played backwards. What you're hearing are sonic illusions.

As Steve pointed out, Stephen Davis has a lot to answer for, as it was his books that went a long way in dwelling on the occult aspect in regards to Led Zeppelin. Even as recently as his book about the 75 tour, there's still his puerile focus on satanism and other bullshit. What a fucktard! All that great access to the band that he had and it was pretty much wasted because Stephen Davis was an idiot. If I had had that kind of access and opportunity to tour with Led Zeppelin, I could have written a much better book than Davis came up with.

The real sad thing about all this baseless and needless dwelling on satanism and backwards masking is that it has fuck-all to do with Led Zeppelin's music, which is why I became a fan in the first place.

I liked Led Zeppelin because their music kicked ass, NOT because they were shagging girls by the bushel or some satanic hoo-ha. And I don't know anybody else who did, either. Hell, it wasn't until 1973 or 1975 that I first got an inkling into their groupie endeavors and Page's interest in the occult(which, it should be noted, is not the same as satanism).

It's the music that endures...the rest is just silly conjecturing.

As I said above, when a newbie or young kid goes on about the whole Stairway satanic messages thing, I let it slide. But for a self-proclaimed long-time fan to spew the same bullshit is either the sign of a raving loon...or a troll.

Which ever one you are, FutureRockStar, you should be ashamed.

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