Led Zeppelin and Religion: A fan's perspective

[SteveAJones]

Oh not the Hammer of The Gods what a piece of trash that is - don't care much for Richard Cole. Who knows why he was backstage at the O2, Perhaps someone from Atlantic Records invited him?

Jimmy Page.

[Melcórë]

I expect that on any given tour night, one or two of them were more concerned about ensuring that Satan would help make up their livin' bed later that night. If you catch my drift

I do - maybe not literally, but definitely in terms of their "sinful" excesses.

Oh not the Hammer of The Gods what a piece of trash that is - don't care much for Richard Cole. Who knows why he was backstage at the O2, Perhaps someone from Atlantic Records invited him? Any way I wouldn't believe a word of it, just rot.

In terms of Crowley I agree with Jimmy I think he is a misunderstood genius, who was years ahead of his time. I don't agree with everything Crowley wrote or stands for but do appreciate his insight on many things. I find Thelema a very interesting study, but is a bit to dogmatic for me personally. Crowley came about during a period of history where sexuality, pleasure etc. were repressed he fought against this and felt it to be harmful of which I concur. He did love a scandal though he was pretty cheeky that way.

In terms of the religion thing - I'm more Pagan than anything and definitely not a Christian. However Christian references in songs such as these don't bother me in the least. Really from a historical reference these we're often covers or songs representing the Blues and religion was apart of that culture.

Crowley was a monster and a fool.

[FutureRockStar3]

Like 'Half-price Sushi', 'video expose' are words to be approached with caution. Most of these so-called 'video exposes' are hackneyed hatchet-jobs with dubious agendas and tenuous tethers to reality. In other words, they're frequently full of shit.

All of the interviews and writings are included in their videos that they discuss. $100,000, which was paid by Church members and other donations has gone into these videos, which goes way beyond just Led Zeppelin. I have their 10 hour 4 DVD set, and until you see it all for yourself, you won't understand how much work that this ministry has put into this project. I've seen all ten hours of this, so I can say that, not everything they put together is completely accurate, but a lot of it is. Many of the artists openly admit to supernatural and satanic influences, and I can personally tell you that, a lot of the things that they admit to, I didn't know beforehand. I'm certainly not preaching, just sharing what I have seen in the videos.

First things first, for the sake of his family, let's reiterate the fact that LOGAN is still very much ALIVE!!! Just wonderin' Rock Star, was the source for your 'Logan died early' bombshell the same source you use to drop your 'satanic messages' nuggets of knowledge on us poor unsaved, unenlightened souls?

No, it wasn't. I haven't watched the video where Karac's death is discussed in at least six years, and like I mentioned earlier, I read that part wrong on Wikipedia.

I especially love the part where you say you're just sharing your knowledge of the band for those who may not know, "IF ANY OF THE SOURCES ARE CORRECT"!!! Oh, so you acknowledge that your sources may be bogus, yet you still insist on pontificating as if you alone know the truth.

Some of the members here have already stated, that some of the quotes I gathered from that video weren't accurate, but some of the others were or may be.

My favourite part might be where you say even if Jimmy or Robert didn't put in the messages in "Stairway to Heaven", they are still there. Whoa...wait a minute...are you saying that gremlins came in the studio when the band wasn't there and put in their demonic yodelings? You can't be that stupid?

Jimmy was heavily influenced by Aleister Crowley's teachings, and applied them in his day to day life. Aleister tought his followers to listen to music backwards, among other things, so I personally, wouldn't have put it past him to have done something like that.

Listen to "Stairway to Heaven"...there is NO gibberish...every word, every vocal is a recognizable word and phrase. There's no backwards sounding gibberish when you play the song forward. Hence, no sudden satanic phrases when played backwards. What you're hearing are sonic illusions.

If you watch that part in the video for yourself when they play parts of the song backwards, you will hear the satanic messages clearly. I watched it, and I can hear the messages that they point out.

As Steve pointed out, Stephen Davis has a lot to answer for, as it was his books that went a long way in dwelling on the occult aspect in regards to Led Zeppelin. Even as recently as his book about the 75 tour, there's still his puerile focus on satanism and other bullshit.

Is everything that Stephen Davis has said about the band in his books not credible, or just certain things?

Hell, it wasn't until 1973 or 1975 that I first got an inkling into their groupie endeavors and Page's interest in the occult(which, it should be noted, is not the same as satanism).

Satanist, Anton LaVey was shown doing this in a video, which Jimmy has repeated during concerts with his bow:

"Turning counter-clockwise, the priest points with the sword to each cardinal point of the compass and calls forth the respective Princes of Hell: Satan from the south, Lucifer from the east, Belial from the north, and Leviathan from the west." (Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible, pg.

As I said above, when a newbie or young kid goes on about the whole Stairway satanic messages thing, I let it slide. But for a self-proclaimed long-time fan to spew the same bullshit is either the sign of a raving loon...or a troll.

I became a fan of Led Zeppelin before I watched these videos on them, and will always remain a huge fan of them regardless if any of those quotes I collected about them are true or not. I just think that these quotes are interesting, and wanted to share them, because I wanted to know more about the sources and if they were credible, somewhat credible, or not at all, and I appreciate all of the feedback from some of the other members here regarding that.

Which ever one you are, FutureRockStar, you should be ashamed.

My intent was only to share the quotes that I had gathered from the videos, because I was interested in sharing them, and wanted to know more about the quotes, especially about the ones that were sourced. I apologize if I offended you in any way or any of the other members here.

[truth and beauty]

I figured Sam, Knebby, Jahfin, Steve, Walter, somebody, would enlighten you and that would be that

Yes - I've also been waiting for someone to wade in on this one .. thankyou Strider ! Very well said.

[ZoSo1960]

Jimmy Page.

Thanks for clearing up that point, surprises me but you would know more than I.

[ZoSo1960]

I do - maybe not literally, but definitely in terms of their "sinful" excesses.

Crowley was a monster and a fool.

Well you are entitled to YOUR opinion, I disagree. A monster interesting have you read anything by him?

[ZoSo1960]

I also heard that Marlyn Manson secretly sold his soul to God and if you play his albums backwards you can hear him sing "Oh How I Love Jesus."

[Texas Melanie]

All of the interviews and writings are included in their videos that they discuss. $100,000, which was paid by Church members and other donations has gone into these videos, which goes way beyond just Led Zeppelin. I have their 10 hour 4 DVD set, and until you see it all for yourself, you won't understand how much work that this ministry has put into this project. I've seen all ten hours of this, so I can say that, not everything they put together is completely accurate, but a lot of it is. Many of the artists openly admit to supernatural and satanic influences, and I can personally tell you that, a lot of the things that they admit to, I didn't know beforehand. I'm certainly not preaching, just sharing what I have seen in the videos.

No, it wasn't. I haven't watched the video where Karac's death is discussed in at least six years, and like I mentioned earlier, I read that part wrong on Wikipedia.

Some of the members here have already stated, that some of the quotes I gathered from that video weren't accurate, but some of the others were or may be.

Jimmy was heavily influenced by Aleister Crowley's teachings, and applied them in his day to day life. Aleister tought his followers to listen to music backwards, among other things, so I personally, wouldn't have put it past him to have done something like that.

If you watch that part in the video for yourself when they play parts of the song backwards, you will hear the satanic messages clearly. I watched it, and I can hear the messages that they point out.

Is everything that Stephen Davis has said about the band in his books not credible, or just certain things?

Satanist, Anton LaVey was shown doing this in a video, which Jimmy has repeated during concerts with his bow:

"Turning counter-clockwise, the priest points with the sword to each cardinal point of the compass and calls forth the respective Princes of Hell: Satan from the south, Lucifer from the east, Belial from the north, and Leviathan from the west." (Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible, pg.

I became a fan of Led Zeppelin before I watched these videos on them, and will always remain a huge fan of them regardless if any of those quotes I collected about them are true or not. I just think that these quotes are interesting, and wanted to share them, because I wanted to know more about the sources and if they were credible, somewhat credible, or not at all, and I appreciate all of the feedback from some of the other members here regarding that.

My intent was only to share the quotes that I had gathered from the videos, because I was interested in sharing them, and wanted to know more about the quotes, especially about the ones that were sourced. I apologize if I offended you in any way or any of the other members here.

$100,000 was spent making some dumbass video?!!

Do you realize how much booze, drugs and hookers you could buy with that?!!! What a waste!!!

J/K for anyone who is irony deficient. Seriously though, that money could have been better spent helping others rather than trying to expose satanic worshipers. It sounds like it is a bunch of propaganda which helps no one. If the ministries wants to serve god and god's people then why not spent that kind of money on those who are in need of food, shelter and basic medical care.

[Walter]

$100,000 was spent making some dumbass video?!!

Do you realize how much booze, drugs and hookers you could buy with that?!!! What a waste!!!

J/K for anyone who is irony deficient. Seriously though, that money could have been better spent helping others rather than trying to expose satanic worshipers. It sounds like it is a bunch of propaganda which helps no one. If the ministries wants to serve god and god's people then why not spent that kind of money on those who are in need of food, shelter and basic medical care.

Agreed! But that wouldn't further their agenda, and that's what it's really about - right?!?

[FutureRockStar3]

$100,000 was spent making some dumbass video?!!

This project goes way, way beyond just Christianity, Satanism, and videos. Their goal is to help others, and educate them with this project to attempt to protect other people, especially children from evil. There are a total of 71 Testimonies out of thousands that this ministry has helped on their website from people that have watched the same program that I did, or one of the three or four hour versions that they submitted to tell them how much this project has changed their, their families, and friends lives, and how much they appreciated it.

http://www.goodfight...estimonies.html

Seriously though, that money could have been better spent helping others rather than trying to expose satanic worshipers. It sounds like it is a bunch of propaganda which helps no one. If the ministries wants to serve god and god's people then why not spent that kind of money on those who are in need of food, shelter and basic medical care.

Like I mentioned above, that $100,000 that went into this project has helped thousands of people, 71 of which, have written letters to the ministry explaining how they helped them and others that they know. It is by a Christian ministry, so obviously their opinions and views are about what's written in the Bible, and how the artists they expose go against God's plan for mankind. The words, "Video Exposes" are not my words, but the words of the ministry to label their videos. I personally, think that the information that they have provided in their documentary is extremely helpful, and useful to protect yourself and loved ones. I can't even begin to explain or express just how many artists, bands, and topics that this program covers.

I do not work for this site in any way, shape or form, but again, I own and have watched their 10 hour version of this project, so I know that, all of this covers way, way more than just what's provided on the website.

[Strider]

FutureRockStar, you're making my argument for me. As I said, most so-called video exposes are agenda-drivened by whatever self-interest is funding the project, cherry-picking their facts along the way to suit their predetermined conclusion. So, don't you think that a video funded by a Church might have an axe to grind?

Hell, given enough money and video equipment I could make a video expose that proves Joe from Liverpool shot John Lennon and John F. Kennedy.

The ironic thing about these religious wackos dwelling on satanic messages and the evils of heavy metal is that I bet if you scratch most of these supposed satanic rockers, underneath you'll find your basic everyday Judeo-Christian type people.

Protecting children from the evils of Led Zeppelin? Ha, I worry more about some lecherous priest getting his clammy hands on a child than Led Zeppelin turning a kid onto satan.

[FutureRockStar3]

FutureRockStar, you're making my argument for me. As I said, most so-called video exposes are agenda-drivened by whatever self-interest is funding the project, cherry-picking their facts along the way to suit their predetermined conclusion. So, don't you think that a video funded by a Church might have an axe to grind?

They have done a ton of research on the majority of the artists that they cover. I realize that, not all of the sources they dug up are credible, but I believe that, a lot of them are. Their belief is that, Satan is using musicians to deceive people that will destroy them emotionally, mentally, and spiritually.

The ironic thing about these religious wackos dwelling on satanic messages and the evils of heavy metal is that I bet if you scratch most of these supposed satanic rockers, underneath you'll find your basic everyday Judeo-Christian type people.

Many artists openly admit in video interviews, and sourced quotes, that they have been influenced by supernatural, satanic forces, among many other things. I'm sure some of them haven't been accurately labeled, but I believe that, a lot have been, and what they are admitting to really happened. They say they are extremely careful with which artists, bands, and musicians that they cover, because they understand the backlash of painting a false picture of them would cause. I believe that for the most part, they were, but obviously, they made some errors in their research along the way.

Protecting children from the evils of Led Zeppelin? Ha, I worry more about some lecherous priest getting his clammy hands on a child than Led Zeppelin turning a kid onto satan.

I also believe that, Led Zeppelin isn't really a threat to children as far as affecting them emotionally, mentally, and spiritually in a negative way. I believe that, their music is good for the soul, whether their music was inspired demonically or not. If it was, then I think listeners could be affected negatively without them evening realizing it. Personally speaking, I'm a Christian, and I don't believe that, I have been affected in a negative way spiritually by Led Zeppelin's music, and despite what may or may not be true about them, their music makes me happy, and will continue to listen to them regardless. Even songs by this band and others that aren't so good for me spirtually, I still think that, they are in a way for me.

I'm a respected karaoke singer from where I'm from, and I still and will continue to sing "Stairway to Heaven" backward messages or not. Out of 82 songs that I've sung so far live at these events, this song is one of the best songs that I do, along with it being a very enjoyable song to sing. Many people that enjoy my singing, absolutely love it when I sing this song.

[betteremily]

My sink cabinet doors are wooden. On the left door there are several dark spots that look like faces. One looks like Stan Laurel, I swear!...Catch my drift? You make something out of nothing.

"666" could be "takethepiss"...let's talk about that!

Why are these Christians spending a hundred grand looking for evidence of Satanism? Why don't they just go walk down the street to congregate Joe Blank's house where he's beating his wife? Go downtown and watch the people walk past the homeless like they're a spent wrapper on the ground? Or hang out on Death Row? Or spend some time in Washington D.C? You don't have to go far to find evil..

Also, people take interest and collect things for all kinds of reasons. Who knows what Page's TRUE opinions on Crowley were at the time and are now. Perhaps he's was just so rich he figured he'd buy up all this Thelema stuff, sell it off later and make a killing? An investment?

IMO, it doesn't matter because it's BUSINESS. It can all be explained by a $. From the Religious aspect to the Record Industry. Money is the grease that makes the world go round.

[DAS]

If you want to know something interesting about 666 here it is. It literally means "Latin" translated correctly. There are a lot of crazy devil chaser who scream about apocalypses and a world leader tattooing people with numbers but that's a superstition. If you look it up it really does mean Latin. So "He will give you 666" or whatever it allegedly says means "He will give you Latin."

[BlackandGold]

I'm a respected karaoke singer from where I'm from,

oxymoron

[Bong-Man]

After reading Jimmy's piss-poor recollections of dates on his web-site (9 shows at Earl's Court ), perhaps it's time to cut Richard Cole some slack on the stories he didn't get exactly right for those two books. I always got the impression that Jimmy and Robert were more pissed at him for breaking their trust of the inner workings of the band, as opposed to telling untruths. That especially holds true for Robert, because Cole was pretty open about Robert's lack of confidence in the early days. I also got the impression that JPJ could care less, and even got a chuckle out of Richard's book and the other two's reaction to it. Even with everything Cole claimed in his book, he made it quite clear to me at the end that his allegiance will always lie with the band. He knew what he was a part of, and was proud of it. That gives him far more credibility in my eyes than Mick 'the dick' Wall. As time goes on, I get more pissed that I even read that book.

I still believe that much of what is being discussed all depends on the extent of Jimmy's devotion to Crowley, especially at certain points in his life. I personally believe it was very deep. Deep enough to believe that his devotion and way of life was partly responsible for the band's success ? My point has always been that knowing what we know now....it's not crazy talk or a real big stretch to think that way.

But I still think the religious nut-jobs have clouded people's ability to look at the circumstantial evidence. They are just exploiting for their own twisted purposes what was already there....or rumored to be there, depending on your point of view.

When I was a kid, I enjoyed Zep's personna, aura, and the way they presented themselves, but it would have meant nothing without the quality of the music. Could have cared less if they sang about Satan, God, or seven virgins.

[Anjin-san]

Well said.

[Strider]

I'm a respected karaoke singer

Now why didn't I think of that?!? Genius...I've gotta remember that on my next resumé.

[FutureRockStar3]

Now why didn't I think of that?!? Genius...I've gotta remember that on my next resumé.

I've been told by a lot of people, even extremely hard critics that, I should get a band together or join one because I'm good enough to take it beyond karaoke, and that is my dream one day. I have twelve recordings of me singing if you'd like to check them out.

This is a comment by one hard critic on the Megadeth forums from a few months ago on February 29th regarding my singing:

"I expected typical karaoke trash when clicking on the first vid. I don't like giving compliments but I have to give credit where credit is due, you fucking killed it dude! Great work man, you have a good voice, you should start up a band of some sort."

[FutureRockStar3]

Accidently double posted.

[FutureRockStar3]

I'd be careful not to read too much into praise coming from a fan of a band with a singer who sounds like a cat being castrated.

Come on then, post a link to your vids. You know you want to.

Just like with any other band forum, he is into much more than just Megadeth. It was in the non Megadeth topic forum.

I don't want to post them in this thread, because they don't belong here. I'll send them to you in a private message, and you can check them out if you want.

[Bong-Man]

Is it just me, or does that narrator sound like MTV's Mark Goodman from the 80's ?

I was afraid to click the 'help' button....wasn't sure what church I'd end up in.

Zep's legal reps ought to sue for the illegal use of TSRTS footage.

[FutureRockStar3]

Cheers man, and thanks for providing so many choices, cos I haven't even heard of some of 'em.

I listened to four. I think you handled the two Sabbath songs pretty well, also the Nirvana. But you were all over the place on Boulevard Of Broken Dreams, and in fact it's set my neighbour's dogs off. (Can you hear them?)

Thanks for checking out those videos man! Black Sabbath and Ozzy Osbourne songs go over extremely well whenever I do them, and those songs are naturally a good fit for me. That Nirvana song, I didn't do as good as I normally do it, but it was still decent enough, and I've actually gotten a lot of positive feedback on that Green Day song from when I sing it out at the events and from the video I posted of it on Facebook. I was singing with sore throat during that recording, so, maybe that's why it sounded a bit off.

I also think you need to work on your stage moves. Overall, 6.5/10.

That has been expressed to me, and am aware of that, but you're right. The vocals aren't my problem, it's the stage presence, but little by little, I've been coming out of my shell, and will continue to do so.

Matjaz1 has his own thread here, why don't you start one too?

I thought about starting one actually! What board is the best one to post something like that here?

[FutureRockStar3]

I can't remember where Matjaz1's is, but you could stick it in 'Other bands & music'.

I was thinking either that one, Ramble On, or The Musicians Corner, but I really wasn't sure which board would be best for karaoke videos.

(I was only kidding about the dogs, lol.)

If you check out any of the other eight videos, please give me your feedback on them man!

[cookieshoes]

What I really have here is a question for two types of people I'm sure are on the board. The devoutly religious and the devoutly non-religious. This is not a question for people who don't care either way. And here it is:

To the non-religious: How do you feel about the religious content in Led Zeppelin's songs? Does it bother you to listen to songs like In My Time Of Dying and Nobody's Fault But Mine (as well as various things in medleys such as John Paul Jones playing Amazing Grace) or do you just not listen to these songs?

To the religious: How do you feel about the pagan content in Led Zeppelin's songs? Does it bother you to listen to songs like Immigrant Song and Achilles Last Stand or do you just not listen to these songs?