DAS Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 So, it's responsible to have the hospital "take the loss" and you really think that cost or "loss" is not being passed on to the rest of us? That's exactly what I'm saying. The prices are already so outrages that the profit margin so outweighs the overhead that it is impossible to drive up the cost. I paid almost $300 for walking in the door at the ER. Literally! That didn't include the doctor's fee, the room fee, the fee for treatment or the fee for supplies used all of which are included on the bill at outrageous costs. Think of it like this: If I sell ice cream cones and your average ice cream cone costs $0.50 to produce plus an average of $0.25 in labor costs for the time it costs to serve the ice cream cone to the customer then it costs $0.75 per ice cream cone in overhead. If I then charge $25 per cone I have a profit margin of $24.25 per cone. If ever so often I serve someone a cone and they drop it on the floor before paying and then refuse to pay it will not effect my overhead because I've only lost out on $0.75. In fact, if 50% of all my customers do this I am still making an average profit of $11.75 per cone after all expenses are paid. That's how the hospitals work. They charge rates insanely above what is necessary to operate that at no time will they need to increase costs. If they raise rates and say this is why it's just an excuse and they would have found some other excuse anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjin-san Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Bro< >KB, it is not a federal mandate to have car insurance I know but in the states I have resided in you are supposed to have it to register your vehicle so you don't make someone else "take the loss" for you. < You have to won a vehicle first. >Doesn't always happen that way, but it's the lack of personal accountability that gets me....< Hang around a ER and bring a barf bag! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjin-san Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 KB, for me, it's all about getting quality health care that people can afford. That will never happen under either system if the biggest slice of the pie continues to go into the administration of the system. Go F***yourself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 ^ completely agree with that statement ally! We all just want something that works, doesn't kick us out when we need it most and doesn't put limitations if things get costly. IMO Walter, our public system in Canada is by no means perfect and there are major changes that have to be made. Health Care in any form will never be a cheap proposition but patients need assurances that the money they are contributing, no matter how they contribute, is being used wisely and effectively Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Go F***yourself! Did that last week in Vegas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Walter, our public system in Canada is by no means perfect and there are major changes that have to be made. Health Care in any form will never be a cheap proposition but patients need assurances that the money they are contributing, no matter how they contribute, is being used wisely and effectively You mean our insurance companies that charge outrageous premiums, don't pay out for procedures unless you fight them tooth and nail, then drop you if you truly get sick - shouldn't be buying name rights to football stadiums, racing series, golf tournaments and sending lobbyists to Washington to buy the attention of our elected officials? Kinda what I was thinking.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 You mean our insurance companies that charge outrageous premiums, don't pay out for procedures unless you fight them tooth and nail, then drop you if you truly get sick - shouldn't be buying name rights to football stadiums, racing series, golf tournaments and sending lobbyists to Washington to buy the attention of our elected officials? Kinda what I was thinking.... Yes, that's what I meant but believe me, public health care taxes can be easily abused as well and governments , like most governments these day's, like to use whatever nest egg there is to service other debt . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Yes, that's what I meant but believe me, public health care taxes can be easily abused as well and governments , like most governments these day's, like to use whatever nest egg there is to service other debt . Absolutely! Steal from Peter to pay Paul.... So, how was your time in Vegas?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 So, how was your time in Vegas?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryingbluerain Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Yes they should be forced to have insurance, same as auto insurance. If that wasn't mandatory, how many more idiots would be driving around running into responsible people and not being able to pay for their damages? WE (those of us who have HI) are paying for those who are irresponsible, who don't have HI and end up in the emergency room. As far as I see it, it's all about personal responsibility. Why should somebody be allowed to bet they won't get sick and not get health insurance, but when they do we have to pay the bill on it? That's not infringing on someone's freedom, it's ass backwards logic. Yeah, those damn "free riders". Funny how not long ago you folks in favor of ACA were crying about the poor uninsured masses, now it's all about "personal responsibility".. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rover Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 It was Roberts all along . . . . . As for Justice Roberts being the one as to who was really controlling the Affordable Health Care Act swing vote decision, and not Justice Kennedy, a caller to a radio talk show compared that, to the The Godfather, when they realize that "it was Barzini (Roberts) all along" (negativley deciding the swing vote). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenman Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 >Again, US public spending on healthcare is vastly higher than anywhere else in the world including many european nations with either free or directly publically funded systems considered to offer a better standard of care.< Free?Really?So we are going to Europe for better care?I never knew,.... The great failing in the US system is that those on lower incomes are unable to get the relgular health advice and long term care they need, "going to europe" would not solve this even if those involved had the money to. >Is that wrong? surely better than helping to support the massive profits of the healthcare industry AS TAXPAYERS.< The ACA does NOT address that! Well I doubt you've expressed any concern over that issue as loudly as you have your dislike of this tax/fine that will most likely not effect you. This tax/fine does I'd guess indirectly look to address that issue though as its being introduced to make the lower cost insurnace that covers existing condictions viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjin-san Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 >Well I doubt you've expressed any concern over that issue as loudly as you have your dislike of this tax/fine that will most likely not effect you.< How do you know this? >This tax/fine does I'd guess indirectly look to address that issue though as its being introduced to make the lower cost insurnace that covers existing condictions viable.< You guess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenman Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 >Well I doubt you've expressed any concern over that issue as loudly as you have your dislike of this tax/fine that will most likely not effect you.< How do you know this? Well how dismissive you are of it in this thread on a very similar subject doesnt seem to hint at a strong interest. >This tax/fine does I'd guess indirectly look to address that issue though as its being introduced to make the lower cost insurnace that covers existing condictions viable.< You guess? I guess being british and not having followed this story that closely that any low cost insurance scheme that effectively looking to replicate the healthcare system of someone like france is going to need some compulsory element to it or else whats to stop nobody buying the insurance until they need it? is that not the case? Correct me if I'm wrong but doesnt Obamacare also seek to limate the profits of health insurers thus reducing there ability to gain from public spending? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sagittarius Rising Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 According to CBS, Chief Justice Roberts 'wobbled' - he switched his vote as he became convinced that a 5-4 ruling against the law would damage the reputation of the Supreme Court. If Roberts voted to uphold in an effort to save the Court's legitimacy (from further media attacks), then his choice did more to hurt the Court's legitimacy than just about anything else he could have done because it showed that the Court can be bullied into reaching specific holdings. Actually, I think the court did that a couple of years back with Citizens United, that ruling completely destroyed any remaining credibility the courts had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Yeah, those damn "free riders". Funny how not long ago you folks in favor of ACA were crying about the poor uninsured masses, now it's all about "personal responsibility".. First, your generalizations are tiresome...when did I make the statement you have attributed to me? Second, it has ALWAYS been about personal accountability to me. I don't subscribe to," if I make bad choices, others can take the loss for me.... ". People who can't afford HI or who are already sick don't even have options right now, once they do they should also be held accountable by this fine/tax. What's your problem? You don't like the govt telling you what to do? If they can tell you to do this then what else will they be able to tell you to do? What if, what if? Or just a plain fuck everybody else and I'm gonna get mine attitude, which seems to be prevalent anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryingbluerain Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 First, your generalizations are tiresome...when did I make the statement you have attributed to me? Second, it has ALWAYS been about personal accountability to me. I don't subscribe to," if I make bad choices, others can take the loss for me.... ". People who can't afford HI or who are already sick don't even have options right now, once they do they should also be held accountable by this fine/tax. That was basically a summarization of your argument about people not having insurance leeching off the system. It's an argument that the left is now making which is quite ironic when you think about it. Democrats pushing for O-care back in 2009 and 2010 were bombarding us with heartbreaking stories about the millions of people who had to go without health insurance. And they weren't free riders, they were victims of a cruel country - the rich, corporations, small business, the 1%. Their whole party is devoted to creating freeloaders and free riders and now they're ripping into them over this. Without free riders (most of whom were created, supported and sustained by liberal policies and programs), they would lose half their base. What's your problem? You don't like the govt telling you what to do? If they can tell you to do this then what else will they be able to tell you to do? What if, what if? Or just a plain fuck everybody else and I'm gonna get mine attitude, which seems to be prevalent anymore? No, I don't think gov has the right to tax people on something they may choose not to do. It's an unprecedented dictatorial power the SC has sanctioned that scares and angers me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjin-san Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 >I guess being british and not having followed this story that closely that any low cost insurance scheme that effectively looking to replicate the healthcare system of someone like france is going to need some compulsory element to it or else whats to stop nobody buying the insurance until they need it? is that not the case?< I'll give you a pass greeman.I don't comment on other nations issues/problems is that I do not know enough about them. The subject at hand does NOT address these issue,at all. >Correct me if I'm wrong but doesnt Obamacare also seek to limate the profits of health insurers thus reducing there ability to gain from public spending?< No it doesn't,sorry to say. Best,KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenman Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 >I guess being british and not having followed this story that closely that any low cost insurance scheme that effectively looking to replicate the healthcare system of someone like france is going to need some compulsory element to it or else whats to stop nobody buying the insurance until they need it? is that not the case?< I'll give you a pass greeman.I don't comment on other nations issues/problems is that I do not know enough about them. The subject at hand does NOT address these issue,at all. That seems to be exactly what the subject is addressing, in order to judge the worth of this tax surely you need to consider the wider issues related to it? >Correct me if I'm wrong but doesnt Obamacare also seek to limate the profits of health insurers thus reducing there ability to gain from public spending?< No it doesn't,sorry to say. Best,KB A quick net search seems to hint your wrong to me, Obamacare is going to mandate that insures spend at least 80% of the preniums paid on healthcare which seems very likely to reduce profits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjin-san Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Not it isn't.Bye! For those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenman Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Not it isn't.Bye! http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2011/12/02/the-bomb-buried-in-obamacare-explodes-today-halleluja/ Seems like it to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjin-san Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Why the do you care?Never mind. Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TypeO Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Correct me if I'm wrong but doesnt Obamacare also seek to limate the profits of health insurers thus reducing there ability to gain from public spending? Just one more problem with the entire bill. Why is the government limiting what a private corporation can make? Why? Because they will eventually squeeze the private companies out altogether. As a citizen of the UK, they may not bother you, I'm not sure. But we're pretty big on that whole free-enterprise thing. I wonder what industry the government will target next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstork Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 You mean our insurance companies that charge outrageous premiums, don't pay out for procedures unless you fight them tooth and nail, then drop you if you truly get sick - shouldn't be buying name rights to football stadiums, racing series, golf tournaments and sending lobbyists to Washington to buy the attention of our elected officials? Kinda what I was thinking.... Everyone knows we need healthcare reform in the US. This bill is not it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Everyone knows we need healthcare reform in the US. This bill is not it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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