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2012 American Presidential Election


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That's not even what I was referring to. However since you brought it up, he misspoke on that issue last week and got closer to the truth this week - although the majority of the plant was closed in Dec. 2008. Even though you used a pro-GOP source, which if I had used a pro-Dem source it would be dismissed by the usual crew, I'll give it to you. When I have more time to post the inaccuracies, with the proper sources, I'll let you pick at 'em. Good thing mitt helped save the auto industry though!

Source was Reason, a Libertarian group. Famous conservative Bill Maher calls himself a Libertarian, even though he's full of it.

So sorry, it's not Rachel Maddow. But it's not Rush Limbaugh either...

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Okay, here's another one for you from the New York Daily News, which has never been confused with the Wall Street Journal:

"Townhall's Guy Benson blows up each of the AP's (and Messina's) objections. The bottom line is that the fact checker criticisms of Ryan's speech come in only one form: "Yes it's true, but here's some context that Democrats want to talk about." That's not fact checking; that's advocacy. And it's not persuasive, it's absurd..."

http://m.nydailynews.com/blogs/the_rumble/2012/08/fact-checking-the-fact-checkers#bmb=1

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Don't get me wrong, I love Clint Eastwood but it is obvious he is slipping. Though I loved how he said lawyers running the show was the main problem and that lawyers as politicians need to go. Never realizing Mitt Romney is a lawyer himself. Oh, and Ryan is a dirty liar, the plant her referred to closed while Bush was president, not Obama.

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I was never sure about Clint's politics, but now I know.

The left can dish it out but they can't take it (as usual)

Seems to me that the right has been "dishing it out" rather more running an almost wholely negative campaign after years of trying to stall progress in pretty much every way possible in both houses.

I'v got to love the way "fact checkers" has become some kind of negative insult in the right, "people who highlight that you have not told the truth" just doesnt roll off the tongue I spose.

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Here are some blatant lies/untruths by the beloved Paul Ryan:

1. Obama is the "greatest threat" to Medicare - the truth is Obama didn't make any cuts to Medicare benefits; he made cuts to provider reimbursements, to improve cost efficiency and extend the fiscal security of Medicare by eight years. According to the Medicare actuary, "[Obama's] Affordable Care Act makes important changes to the Medicare program and substantially improves its financial outlook.". The source for this is the USA Today. But Ryan actually does want to cut benefits. He proposed dismantling Medicare and replacing it with a voucher system, leaving millions of seniors to come up with more money to pay for care out of pocket.

2. Lie: President Obama ignored recommendations of a bipartisan debt commission.

Truth: Paul Ryan actually sat on that commission. And he led Republicans in voting down the commission's own recommendation. So the commission never gave a report to Obama, because Ryan himself voted to kill the report before it could.

3. Lie: President Obama is responsible for the downgrading of the U.S. Credit Rating. The truth is House Republicans, including Paul Ryan, held the full faith and credit of the United States hostage to try to ransom it for trillions of dollars in cuts to social programs without increasing taxes on the wealthy one dime. Standard & Poor's said specifically, "We have changed our assumption on [revenue] because the majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues." That's why our nation's credit rating was downgraded.

4. Lie: Ryan wants to protect the "weak.". The truth is Ryan's biggest feat in his political career was proposing a budget with dramatic cuts to programs benefiting the poor. He'd cut Medicaid by one third, take away health care insurance from 30 million Americans, and cut Pell Grants for 1 million students. All so that he could give more tax breaks to the rich.

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I was never sure about Clint's politics, but now I know.

The left can dish it out but they can't take it (as usual)

I LOVE how repub's don't want to hear from "Hollywood Types", but then trot out ol' Clint as the mystery speaker - that was an understatement! :blink: Again, the hypocrisy never ends. Family Values? What does Clint have, 7 kids from 5 different women???

The best part is that there now is a website dedicated to people standing next to empty chairs, posing for pictures. That's :hysterical:!

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Here are some blatant lies/untruths by the beloved Paul Ryan:

1. Obama is the "greatest threat" to Medicare - the truth is Obama didn't make any cuts to Medicare benefits; he made cuts to provider reimbursements, to improve cost efficiency and extend the fiscal security of Medicare by eight years. According to the Medicare actuary, "[Obama's] Affordable Care Act makes important changes to the Medicare program and substantially improves its financial outlook.". The source for this is the USA Today. But Ryan actually does want to cut benefits. He proposed dismantling Medicare and replacing it with a voucher system, leaving millions of seniors to come up with more money to pay for care out of pocket.

2. Lie: President Obama ignored recommendations of a bipartisan debt commission.

Truth: Paul Ryan actually sat on that commission. And he led Republicans in voting down the commission's own recommendation. So the commission never gave a report to Obama, because Ryan himself voted to kill the report before it could.

3. Lie: President Obama is responsible for the downgrading of the U.S. Credit Rating. The truth is House Republicans, including Paul Ryan, held the full faith and credit of the United States hostage to try to ransom it for trillions of dollars in cuts to social programs without increasing taxes on the wealthy one dime. Standard & Poor's said specifically, "We have changed our assumption on [revenue] because the majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues." That's why our nation's credit rating was downgraded.

4. Lie: Ryan wants to protect the "weak.". The truth is Ryan's biggest feat in his political career was proposing a budget with dramatic cuts to programs benefiting the poor. He'd cut Medicaid by one third, take away health care insurance from 30 million Americans, and cut Pell Grants for 1 million students. All so that he could give more tax breaks to the rich.

:hysterical:

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Answer a fool according to his folly and he will be wise in his own eyes. No amount facts and reason will convince someone who has bought into liberal propaganda that the Republicans are not evil and wrong about everything and that the Democrats are not god-like infallible supermen.

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>As a discrete event, you're right, I don't give a shit.<

Why post?

>However, whenever the US elects a bunch of war-mongers with an at best tenuous grasp of modern economics, it affects the rest of us too.<

It does?How?Your not in the Eurozone,right?Right,...

How is is Barry's deck of cards doing?

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>What the hell does being in the Eurozone have to do with what I said?<

Global economy?Ring a bell?

>Do you think it's only Eurozone countries who were affected by the repackaging & fraudulent re-selling of toxic debt? Or phoney wars?<

Did you call the House of Commons?

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Here are some blatant lies/untruths by the beloved Paul Ryan:

1. Obama is the "greatest threat" to Medicare - the truth is Obama didn't make any cuts to Medicare benefits; he made cuts to provider reimbursements, to improve cost efficiency and extend the fiscal security of Medicare by eight years. According to the Medicare actuary, "[Obama's] Affordable Care Act makes important changes to the Medicare program and substantially improves its financial outlook.". The source for this is the USA Today. But Ryan actually does want to cut benefits. He proposed dismantling Medicare and replacing it with a voucher system, leaving millions of seniors to come up with more money to pay for care out of pocket.

2. Lie: President Obama ignored recommendations of a bipartisan debt commission.

Truth: Paul Ryan actually sat on that commission. And he led Republicans in voting down the commission's own recommendation. So the commission never gave a report to Obama, because Ryan himself voted to kill the report before it could.

3. Lie: President Obama is responsible for the downgrading of the U.S. Credit Rating. The truth is House Republicans, including Paul Ryan, held the full faith and credit of the United States hostage to try to ransom it for trillions of dollars in cuts to social programs without increasing taxes on the wealthy one dime. Standard & Poor's said specifically, "We have changed our assumption on [revenue] because the majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues." That's why our nation's credit rating was downgraded.

4. Lie: Ryan wants to protect the "weak.". The truth is Ryan's biggest feat in his political career was proposing a budget with dramatic cuts to programs benefiting the poor. He'd cut Medicaid by one third, take away health care insurance from 30 million Americans, and cut Pell Grants for 1 million students. All so that he could give more tax breaks to the rich.

1- Take a deep breath and read. You don't like Reason as a source? Or the New York Daily News? How about Mother Jones, a clearly left-leaning news organization?:

There's really no way around this: Planned spending on Medicare was reduced, and the savings were applied to Obamacare. These savings came from cutting payments to hospitals and insurance companies, not from cutting benefits to seniors, but it's still perfectly defensible for conservatives to argue that the spending reductions may eventually lead to service or quality cuts in Medicare. There are some strong arguments that this won't happen, but they're hardly bulletproof...But the one thing you can't do is pretend that money wasn't taken from Medicare to help pay for Obamacare. It was.

http://www.motherjon...aying-obamacare

Ryan was right.

2- You're saying it's a lie that Obama ignored the recommendations of a bipartisan debt commission? Well guess what...OBAMA IGNORED THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF A BIPARTISAN DEBT COMMISSION! The President, not Paul Ryan, appointed the Simpson-Bowles commission. Regardless of what members of the commission such as Ryan thought, it was up to the President to lead once the commission came back to him with their recommendations. And they did come back to him with their recommendations, contrary to what you claim. Erksine Bowles is the Democrat half of Simpson-Bowles, and he clearly stated that their recommendations did not go anywhere because the President chose to ignore them, here's what he had to say:

Erskine Bowles: If you think you were surprised, you should have looked at us. I negotiated the budget for President Clinton. And every investment banker will tell you the key to success is knowing your client and defining success up front. So, I knew what success was on his part, and I could go in there and negotiate the deal. I did not know President Obama, and neither did Alan. So, we spent a tremendous amount of time with him and his economic team up front defining success. And we negotiated a deal that got a majority of Republicans to vote for it, so he had plenty of cover on the other side. It also exceeded every single one of the goals that he had given us. I fully expected them to grab hold of this. If it had been President Clinton, he would have said, “God, I created this, this is wonderful. It was all my idea.” So we were really surprised.

My belief is that most of the members of the economic team strongly supported it. Like every White House, there’s a small cabal of people that surround the president that he trusts and works with, and I believe it was those Chicago guys, the political team that convinced him that it would be smarter for him to wait and let Paul Ryan go first, and then he would look like the sensible guy in the game.

You can watch the video and hear the words coming out of this mouth: http://www.breitbart...n-Budget-Reform

Ryan said Obama ignored the bipartisan debt commission. Again, Ryan was right.

3- This is opinion. Opinions cannot be fact checked. You say the Republicans forced the downgrade because they wouldn't agree to tax increases on the wealthy. Republicans say the President's stubborn insistence on tax increases that 1) hurt almost a million small businesses, and 2) would not even be a drop in the bucket in terms of closing the deficit, is the culprit. Furthermore, S&P blamed both parties, not just Republicans as your cherry-picked quote makes it appear:

The political brinksmanship of recent months highlights what we see as

America's governance and policymaking becoming less stable, less effective,

and less predictable than what we previously believed. The statutory debt

ceiling and the threat of default have become political bargaining chips in

the debate over fiscal policy. Despite this year's wide-ranging debate, in our

view, the differences between political parties have proven to be

extraordinarily difficult to bridge, and, as we see it, the resulting

agreement fell well short of the comprehensive fiscal consolidation program

that some proponents had envisaged until quite recently. Republicans and

Democrats have only been able to agree to relatively modest savings on

discretionary spending while delegating to the Select Committee decisions on

more comprehensive measures. It appears that for now, new revenues have

dropped down on the menu of policy options. In addition, the plan envisions

only minor policy changes on Medicare and little change in other entitlements,

the containment of which we and most other independent observers regard as key

to long-term fiscal sustainability.

http://www.standarda...dervalue3=UTF-8

Please also note a major problem was "only minor policy changes on Medicare." Hmmm, who's the only guy to have presented a bold plan involving the long term viability of Medicare?...

4- Again, passionate opinion on your part disguised as a "fact" that can be checked. You left out the part about Ryan's plans to personally strangle everyone's Grandma and give what's left of her savings to the Koch Brothers.

This is why these fact checkers are a farce. The act of "fact checking" opinions is a desperate act. Rating easily provable facts as "lies" is even worse. This crap worked against McCain but it's dead in the water now because the only thing losing credibility faster than politicians is the mainstream media.

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All I'm gonna say is this, facts such as Scientific findings, documented meetings/speeches and plans that have been presented in the past, don't seem to work with the GOP. Ryan/Romney have supported using a voucher system for Medicare recipients, which will not benefit those who are on a fixed income (or most retired folks), Ryan/Romney support giving Social Security dollars to Wall St. for personal investments, and we have all seen how well Wall Street handled investors money which almost brought us to a depression in 2008, Ryan/Romney support giving the wealthiest Americans more tax breaks, in the name of creating jobs - because that has worked out so well over the past decade and Ryan/Romney support cutting many programs that help middle income families such as cutting Pell Grants - the same grants Ryan himself used for college. Those are all true statements and, as was said earlier, let the pile on begin......

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Nice reply to Walter there. Just goes to prove the truth speaks volumes as you have no rebuttal, simply insult. Typical response, nothing new.

There is never any debate there. I respect mstork and Type O, among others, as they at least have some food for thought.

Peace.

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All I'm gonna say is this, facts such as Scientific findings, documented meetings/speeches and plans that have been presented in the past, don't seem to work with the GOP. Ryan/Romney have supported using a voucher system for Medicare recipients, which will not benefit those who are on a fixed income (or most retired folks), Ryan/Romney support giving Social Security dollars to Wall St. for personal investments, and we have all seen how well Wall Street handled investors money which almost brought us to a depression in 2008, Ryan/Romney support giving the wealthiest Americans more tax breaks, in the name of creating jobs - because that has worked out so well over the past decade and Ryan/Romney support cutting many programs that help middle income families such as cutting Pell Grants - the same grants Ryan himself used for college. Those are all true statements and, as was said earlier, let the pile on begin......

I respect your opinion, and I hope that shows. As we've said before, we'll agree to disagree on politics and agree to agree that Jimmy Page kicks ass.

Having said that, it bothers me when democrats claim that Romney/Ryan want a "return to the failed policies of George Bush". Bush was not a "cut taxes and reign in spending" Republican. Bush cut taxes, added a new entitlement, prosecuted two wars simultaneously, etc. if Romney/ Ryan spend wildly thy will earn my derision. I'm convinced that's not what they have in mind. I'm also convinced that our current President is the most hostile President to business I've ever seen, and I know many democrats here in NY of all places, who agree with that assessment. Want to talk about "trickle down"? When the government makes it more expensive and difficult to start and run a business, that truly "trickles down" to everyone, and it's not good.

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Believe me, mstork, I completely agree with a lot of what you said. You can't start a business without help, we have been doing that ourselves - and having to work with a gov't agency that requires the same paperwork to be filled out many, many times for the same reason makes no sense and is not time effective nor cost effective. GWB was far from a conservative president, we definitely agree there too. I hope the R/R, if they are elected, don't continue those same policies either - however, I don't want them to turn all of the rules/laws in this country to favor corporations either. That's when we have more environmental issues, worker's rights being taken advantage of and more gov't spending to help pad their buddies pockets with being given contracts, etc. and change foreign/domestic policy to benefit their bottom line and not what's best for our country. So, we are not that far apart actually and yes, Jimmy Page does kick ass! Happy Labor Day!

:)

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Answer a fool according to his folly and he will be wise in his own eyes. No amount facts and reason will convince someone who has bought into liberal propaganda that the Republicans are not evil and wrong about everything and that the Democrats are not god-like infallible supermen.

So looking to break down statements a politican has made and highlight clear factual dishoniesty is the work of a "fool" while making highly simplistic generalised statements about those with political views that differ from yours is not? could have fooled me.

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http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/22/science-say-gop-voters-better-informed-open-minded/

This is what I would expect in terms of the two major parties but I'd like to see where independents fell in these polls, being one myself. I'd bet without trying to defend a failing party establishment people score significantly higher.

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