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2012 American Presidential Election


DAS

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  1. 1. Who are you for?

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No , people just voted for THEIR CHOICE - all of them. Simple as that.

Romney lost because he got it wrong when he said that 47% of Americans who are on the dole from the government would not vote for him anyway. Romney was wrong because his numbers were wrong, the numbers of takers is much higher now. Obama has effectively over the last 4 years gotten more people on the dole, or convinced more people that they will be better off if they get on the dole.

In another 4 years America will be just as screwed up as Europe. After the next economic meltdown I could see Americans marching in the streets and crying just like they do in Greece, Spain, France and England. Begging for more milk from the tit of a socialist governmet.

Hey anybody else been watching the stock market? Day after Obama wins the biggest one day loss of the year in the market. Not that any of the "takers" care about that.

Businesses will now make their "choice" and I don't see much hope in where this will end up.

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Hey anybody else been watching the stock market? Day after Obama wins the biggest one day loss of the year in the market. Not that any of the "takers" care about that.Businesses will now make their "choice" and I don't see much hope in where this will end up.

That's theatre. The market (historically) drops 3-4% after a Democrat is elected and goes up 1-2% after a Republican is elected. Wall Street is full of more drama queens than the casts of 10 hit Broadway plays. You can trust me on that one. What's more important is that historically the market does better under Democrats. Yes, it's true even though Fox Business News won't tell you that.

A few weeks before the election, Jamie Dimon, arguably the most powerful man on Wall Street , said Obama would be good for business. Larry Fink, CEO of BlackRock (largest asset and risk manager in the world with $3trillion AUM) will probably be tapped to be Treasury Secretary. Goldman Sachs is the major talent pipeline for the White House, Treasury, the Fed, and lobbyists. They don't call it "Government Sachs" for nothing.

Do you know what "bundling" is? Then you'd understand that no one is elected president without massive Wall Street MONETARY support. In 2008, Obama got more $ from the street and INSURANCE COMPANIES than McCain.

I know all this doesn't fit the meme we are supposed to believe about Democrats and Republicans and our political process but if you think the US is becoming or will become a socialist country, you are simply ignorant of the facts of how our fiscal policy is determined and by whom.

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I believe it is both you and Stork who are missing the point. Have either of you served in the military? I was in a unit called the Marine's 1st Platoon which is further broken down into three different designations which I will not go into. Anyway, the designation I was assigned dealt with anti-terrorism and rule number one when dealing with terrorists is fabricate a cover story which is as neutral as possible until ALL OF THE FACTS are available. You really think an incident of this magnitude expects the President to let the American people know every single detail in real time? Do you know anything about strategic operation? By that logic the pentagon should have released all data pertaining to the development of the F-117 during the 80's, after all the American taxpayer is paying for it. Or how about Ike having Mosaddegh assassinated in 53' and installing the Shah as ruler? Should that have been made public as well? Obama did exactly what every head of state has done in similar circumstances and that is a fact. Sorry the President did not inform you or the American population about every little detail as it became available but he owes you and the public shit in the great scheme of international politics. If Obama would have gotten immediate intelligence pointing the finger at say the Syrian's and that info, though later erroneous was released it could cause a major international incident that could get hundreds or even thousands killed.

Development of the F-117?

Mosaddegh Assassination?

Sorry, but what do programs / operations we were developing / involved in have to do with an attack on an embassy?

It's a ridiculous extrapolation to equate revealing secret intelligence we are engaged in with admitting what occurred in an incident like this.

And also, turns out he (Obama) works for us (American citizens), not the other way around, and yes, he does owe us a reasonable amount of truth about an incident of this magnitude.

And certainly an American citizen shouldn't have to be taken into custody for creating a video that they chose to use as cover for their own ineptitude.

If this exact thing had happened with Bush, with the same excuse, there would be rioting in the streets by all the usual far-left activist groups, and it would be the lead story every night on the national news broadcasts, and on the front page of every newspaper, demanding explanations and answers.

My problem is certain people and groups in this country hold President Obama to a standard which was never required nor expected before and frankly I am tired of it. Jesus Christ, Chester Arthur was never dumped on as much as Obama has been and he was Canadian!

Likewise, I've never before seen such an insistence to defend / make excuses for a President like people are for this one.

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Development of the F-117?

Mosaddegh Assassination?

Sorry, but what do programs / operations we were developing / involved in have to do with an attack on an embassy?

It's a ridiculous extrapolation to equate revealing secret intelligence we are engaged in with admitting what occurred in an incident like this.

And also, turns out he (Obama) works for us (American citizens), not the other way around, and yes, he does owe us a reasonable amount of truth about an incident of this magnitude.

And certainly an American citizen shouldn't have to be taken into custody for creating a video that they chose to use as cover for their own ineptitude.

If this exact thing had happened with Bush, with the same excuse, there would be rioting in the streets by all the usual far-left activist groups, and it would be the lead story every night on the national news broadcasts, and on the front page of every newspaper, demanding explanations and answers.

Likewise, I've never before seen such an insistence to defend / make excuses for a President like people are for this one.

Again, you did not address my most basic point about national security and intelligence operations as a whole. Anyway, I guess we will agree to disagree on this.

The only positive course here is to get back to business and have bi-partisan cooperation for the first time in four years. If this can be done I believe we will be in for a great four years and prove that working together is the only way to go. If Romney would have won he would have been my President and I would support him 100% just like I did with Bush. I may not agree with Romney but I would still give him the respect he deserves and not go around calling him stupid names and projecting false images on the man like so many have done with President Obama.

Peace.

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Well not really all of them as they all did not show up to vote. But that aside, we are now percieved by many around the world as an embarresment for not fixing what is broken. A willingness by half of this nation to accept the same crap that went on the last four years and indeed, 1/2 of this nation voted against him. We are truly a nation divided, not united

That's YOUR choice to be divided and not united...get over it BOTH the popular vote and electoral college went his way - so not half of the country voted against him or that would not be a fact.

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Well not really all of them as they all did not show up to vote. But that aside, we are now percieved by many around the world as an embarresment for not fixing what is broken. A willingness by half of this nation to accept the same crap that went on the last four years and indeed, 1/2 of this nation voted against him. We are truly a nation divided, not united

Not at all - I cannot tell you how many people were saying "Thank You America for making the right choice " - EVERY post I saw on Facebook, for a start, every TV show, every news report. People in the rest of the world saw Romney as a backward choice. Not that we all love Obama - he's no great supporter of the UK, for a start, and has less obvious respect for us than any US President in my memory - but he's STREETS ahead of Romney in the opinion of the majority of us over here.

And I meant all of the people who VOTED voted for THEIR CHOICE - which is an inescapable fact.

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No, people voted for who big party money shoved down our throats. Obama would be laughed out of the nation if he ran on his ideas. Romney wouldn't fair very well either.

No, people voted for THEIR CHOICE - or was that only you and your mates? The choice of people who voted differently from you is just as valid. Whatever led them to their choice it was still THEIR CHOICE.

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In another 4 years America will be just as screwed up as Europe. After the next economic meltdown I could see Americans marching in the streets and crying just like they do in Greece, Spain, France and England. Begging for more milk from the tit of a socialist governmet.

What the hell are you talking about Del??? That is not happening in England.

Plus the global financial recession BEGAN in the US because of the ridiculouus mortgage practises - so whining that you may now suffer too doesn't cut it over here.

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Re: stock market reaction:

The market’s reaction to President Obama’s victory four years ago ended up telling us next to nothing about the subsequent four years. On Nov. 5, 2008, the day after that election, the Dow plunged more than 5%. And yet the Dow today is several thousand points higher than where it stood then.

By contrast, the market rose 1.1 percent in 2004, the day after George W. Bush won a second term, but lost 12 percent the next four years.

Bush entered office with the Dow Jones Industrial Average at 10,587. When Bush left office, the average was at 7,949, one of the lowest levels of his presidency.

Stocks are worse than guessing football game outcomes, as some of us here can verify!!

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Romney got his ass kicked and the takers have taken over the country.

The takers, the takers...give it a rest ok, that line is BS and always has been. The real shame is that a good portion of that 47% who pay no taxes is due to POVERTY!!! You really expect someone making $12,000 to pay income tax? Or how about we are the ONLY developed nation without socialized medicine? In Phoenix recently the very point of why socialized medicine is a necessity was proven in spades. A woman was stung twice by a bark scorpion and as a result she suffered a reaction. She went to her local hospital, was treated with anti-venom and sent home with a $81,000 bill for the two doses of anti-venom used. This is the kicker and boldly explains why the free market should never control health care: The anti-venom which is produced in Mexico costs $100 per dose sold to the pharma company. The pharma company then sells the anti-venom to the hospital for between $6,000 and $12,000 per dose (I have no idea what determines this arbitrary pricing but, whatever), and then the hospital provides the anti-venom for $38,000 per dose. Anyone who does not have a problem with that is a serious ASSHOLE!!!

We need regulation and tax breaks to bring manufacturing back to the US, you want to create jobs, that is how you do it. Manufacturing is what built this country and manufacturing is what will bring it back. Tax the shit out of any corporation that outsources and tariff the products they import back to the US to the point they MUST manufacture in the US. They will still make a healthy profit while paying factory workers $20 per hour, they just will not make "ludicrous profit" like they do when wages are $0.90 per hour and are allowed to pollute the crap out of whatever host country they are manufacturing from. I have no problem with the free market, however I am an expert on human nature and when the fox is given the keys to the henhouse the obvious will transpire.

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I just gotta say:

POOR FLORIDA! How they have fallen in stature, lol!

In 2000, it all depended on them. They were busting their butts to get things counted, get it right, etc. The whole world was watching and waiting with baited breath.

Today, Florida is once again trying to finalize the counting from this election. Only thing is, no one cares!!

Voting needs to be fixed in this country, but esp Florida. How can people be waiting in line for eight hours to vote? Do they have one person inside checking each person in or something??

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We need regulation and tax breaks to bring manufacturing back to the US, you want to create jobs, that is how you do it. Manufacturing is what built this country and manufacturing is what will bring it back. Tax the shit out of any corporation that outsources and tariff the products they import back to the US to the point they MUST manufacture in the US. They will still make a healthy profit while paying factory workers $20 per hour, they just will not make "ludicrous profit" like they do when wages are $0.90 per hour and are allowed to pollute the crap out of whatever host country they are manufacturing from. I have no problem with the free market, however I am an expert on human nature and when the fox is given the keys to the henhouse the obvious will transpire.

I am amazed today when I work with young college kids, and they get all excited saying "OMG, I just got offered a job at such and such for NINE BUCKS an hour"!! And I think "are you f-ing kidding me? I made $9 an hour 30 years ago when I left working in the factory". You make a great point, SR. Frontline on PBS did a show on the auto industry when it was in bankruptcy. And this man who had worked there his whole life said

if you got a job working for the union at GM in 1967, you got $12 an hour. Amazing money for that time. And the CEO made just under a million dollars. Fast forward 40 years to 2007. If you get hired by the union at GM today, you get $12 an hour, that's how many concessions the union has given GM. The CEO made around $12 million dollars.

You see more and more of this in business, where historically absurd amounts of money are pulled from profits for just one person, while R&D (the true blood of any company) is left to decay.

I like the idea of getting manufacturing back into the US. Growing up, I saw many families where just the man went off to work at the factory, Mom stayed home and raised the kids. And they had a home, a car, plenty of food, and money for a vacation, etc.

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This "lazy" claim is incredibly popular, and requires no thought at all to buy in on.

I have been involved with a mentoring organization (Big Brothers) for twelve years now, I have met more than my fair share of people on welfare. Almost invariably, they do work. Unfortunatley, lacking a decent education, they work in low wage jobs. So making enough to even get by, never mind pay for health insurance, is just beyond their reach. Not one of them WANTS to stay on public assistance.

Honestly, passing some sort of jobs training bill should be a no brainer. We have two large manufacturers in a town next door, and they begged the governor to do something. They want to expand, have loads of business, but can't find qualified people. Let's take the laid off people, train them (at government expense) then plug them into one of these jobs. These jobs pay well, the workers will pay more in taxes since they will make more money...seems like a win-win.

In the Evening, I really enjoy most of your post when it's musically related here. But your post on this is one small fraction of what REALLY goes on in this country in response to the 47 million on Welfare. Where I live (even though I have not personally worked as a social worker, etc like yourself) I can tell you that "lazy" and "uneducated" are exactly why they (majority) are on Welfare and are satisfied living in the projects....I have a black friend at work that talks about this all the time. He feels it's an embarrassment to him, because it's "his people".....And it makes no sense to him either. He's about 57.

How can you put someone to work that has the wrong attitude about life, and what it takes to be something and have something --government assisted or not, if you are not enforcing it with the threat of no more assistance?

I thought the Welfare system was set up help people get on their feet? Here, most of these folks have 2 generations of family still living here. I'm talking 10,20 and 30 years for some people. No bullshit.

The reason some people live there is because they know they have no rent to pay. Would you be so quick to get off your ass, get motivated and do something if you had the government paying for your housing??? Food stamps, etc, etc. Must be nice, huh?

It would be wrong to say that some people are not working towards a better future. I'd like and hope to think that.

Not all 47 million people on assistance are "lazy" and "uneducated". There are people with disabilities, hardships, etc. I get that.

But to stay in the projects for 20 years???Come on man...really? You got to be doing something wrong with your life- or maybe they are happy with how it is? No tellin'

Don't take any of this personally, but I must say that because I notice there are so many people on this site that I didn't realize were so close-minded about reality. The race card is thrown in at you, because your honest.

Does it makes any sense to have 3,4,5 or 6 kids-if you are trying to better yourself and get out of the system????

Or to by a $40,000 vehicle to ride around in with nice rims, etc-but you live in the Projects???

What kind of thinking is that???

And the best thing is, here where some of the projects have become so trashed and run-down, they (the state) have built brand new apartment complexes to house the people, and it's all rent free- still.

The apartments are luxurious and are just as nice or better than any house I've ever lived in...

Must be nice. And THIS is the reality I see. So it's not as you described everywhere. I guess the mentality in New Orleans is different? Hence "The Big Easy" I'd put money down and say, it's not just a New Orleans thing.

Look, when Katrina hit here and took away 90% of what I ever owned in my life, besides my truck that I drove out of here and a few clothes...it was beyond hard to comprehend how I would continue. It fucked me up for a long, long time-emotionally, physically-everything.

I received NO government funding from FEMA to compensate the loss of my house. I received Food Stamps for 1 month and that was that. I was greatful to have it. And it was used properly for how the system should work.. And here I am 7 years later in good shape. I worked my ass off, and didn't ask anyone for anything-never have-never will. You have to have the "will" to make it happen, be determined and strap on your boots when the going gets tough. I can't say that for the one's that ARE truly lazy, that have it all handed down-with no work ethic or self-worth in their frame of mind.

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Romney lost because he got it wrong when he said that 47% of Americans who are on the dole from the government would not vote for him anyway. Romney was wrong because his numbers were wrong, the numbers of takers is much higher now. Obama has effectively over the last 4 years gotten more people on the dole, or convinced more people that they will be better off if they get on the dole.

From factcheck:

Rick Santorum blames President Barack Obama for “a nightmare of dependency with almost half of America receiving some sort of government assistance.” But the same could have been said of George W. Bush. In fact, the Census Bureau reported that in the third quarter of 2008, under Bush, “nearly half of U.S. residents live in households receiving government benefits.”

Back then, Census reported that 44.4 percent of Americans received some sort of government benefits. That has risen to 49 percent under Obama as of the most recent figures available, and much of that modest increase is due to the aging Baby Boom generation reaching retirement age.

Businesses will now make their "choice" and I don't see much hope in where this will end up.

Obama held a meeting in Silicon Valley with a lot of tech CEOs in Feb 2011. And he pointedly said {paraphrasing} "your companies have never had bigger profits or more money in the bank than they have now. When will you use some of that money to expand and start hiring"?

I think it's like a clog in a drain, sooner or later, that clog will move and we'll get real hiring again. Businesses need to start investing that money or a competitor will come up behind them and overtake them. Not a political view, just a business view.

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The apartments are luxurious and are just as nice or better than any house I've ever lived in...

Have you ever in your life been inside project housing?

And to just to provide a break from the racist thinking (yes that's what it's called when you assume everyone on welfare is from one race) about welfare in this country.

From the Cato Institute (a libertarian think tank) and US Health & Human Services, October 2012

Number of Americans on Welfare: 4.3 Million

Number of Americans on Food Stamps: 47 Million

Number of Americans on Unemployment Insurance: 5.6 Million (edited to add this - forgot it in original post)

Recipients that are white: 38.8

Recipients that are black: 39.8

Recipients that are Hispanic: 15.7

Recipients that are Asian: 2.4

Recipients that are Other: 3.3

So it's not just your "black" friends' "people" it's Americans from all demographics.

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Have you ever in your life been inside project housing?

And to just to provide a break from the racist thinking (yes that's what it's called when you assume everyone on welfare is from one race) about welfare in this country.

From the Cato Institute (a libertarian think tank) and US Health & Human Services, October 2012

Number of Americans on Welfare: 4.3 Million

Number of Americans on Food Stamps: 47 Million

Number of Americans on Unemployment Insurance: 5.6 Million (edited to add this - forgot it in original post)

Recipients that are white: 38.8

Recipients that are black: 39.8

Recipients that are Hispanic: 15.7

Recipients that are Asian: 2.4

Recipients that are Other: 3.3

So it's not just your "black" friends' "people" it's Americans from all demographics.

Yes, there are Whites, Hispanics, Asians-all colors down to green and purple. I'm talking about where I live honey...and what I see everyday.....You ever been to New Orleans...??? Did you read that part???? Didn't think so. You've proven to me that the statement I made about being "close-minded" is true. Do you really think that I believe that ALL people on government assistance are one color??? Jesus Christ-please lady-step away.

Your a little too sassy for your own good

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Yes, I did read that part of the story, honey. And these parts, too, which are assumptions (based on no evidence of personal interaction or conversation for veracity) for ALL the welfare recipients where you live.

But your post on this is one small fraction of what REALLY goes on in this country in response to the 47 million on Welfare.

I can tell you that "lazy" and "uneducated" are exactly why they (majority) are on Welfare and are satisfied living in the projects..

And you did ask someone for something. You asked the government for food stamps. And you got them, thank goodness. That's how it should be. I'm honored my taxes went to feed you for a month. Just as other taxpayers' dollars helped me go to college (along with student loans + money i saved) so now I make enough money with a decent job to give back to the system that helped me.

Do some take advantage of the system? Hell, yes. Always going to be that way. Just as corporations (who don't always create jobs) do the same thing. But there you sit in judgment so sure that EVERYONE you see on welfare or in the projects are "truly lazy" with no work ethic, blah blah blah.

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Yes, I did read that part of the story, honey. And these parts, too, which are assumptions (based on no evidence of personal interaction or conversation for veracity) for ALL the welfare recipients where you live.

But your post on this is one small fraction of what REALLY goes on in this country in response to the 47 million on Welfare.

I can tell you that "lazy" and "uneducated" are exactly why they (majority) are on Welfare and are satisfied living in the projects..

And you did ask someone for something. You asked the government for food stamps. And you got them, thank goodness. That's how it should be. I'm honored my taxes went to feed you for a month. Just as other taxpayers' dollars helped me go to college (along with student loans + money i saved) so now I make enough money with a decent job to give back to the system that helped me.

Do some take advantage of the system? Hell, yes. Always going to be that way. Just as corporations (who don't always create jobs) do the same thing. But there you sit in judgment so sure that EVERYONE you see on welfare or in the projects are "truly lazy" with no work ethic, blah blah blah.

You didn't read a DAMN thing I said...I was completely fair in my statement noting that this is what I see everyday, not speaking for the whole country. Did I say that??? NO! And lemme tell ya something else "sweety" - receiving no money from FEMA and receiving food stamps are two different things....I never said I didn't receive any assistance..I said from FEMA for my house..Another thing you MISREAD> You read only what you wanted it to read through your "race-fuled" response. All you read was the words "black friend" and you got all shook up. I never once said the ALL people on assistance were lazy or ONE color either. Yet you continue on that path. How dare you. Again, I am talking about a fragment of this country called New Orleans...and what I observe, read and hear through local news statistics, etc.-not the nation or the world. Get it? And yes, I HAVE been inside the projects new and old...what's your point? I even helped build the new ones. I see where your trying to bring it all.

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No, sweety. I'm not shook up at all. I only get that way when I listen to Jimmy's guitar.

I read your post numerous times and I wouldn't retract a single word of my response.

The only place I'm trying to "bring it all" is to make a point that we ALL need each OTHER to make this country work. Not everyone is treated equally. Women and people of color are not equally represented in government. The economy is a mess and it won't be better until there is compromise and we the people start standing up to the fact that Wall Street and corporations have way too much influence in our government. We have thousands of soldiers coming home from war who aren't cared for properly. Our public education system is a mess. Our tax system is way too complicated and benefits the extremely wealthy more than the middle class. Obama is so far from a socialist, it's ridiculous to even use that word when talking about any American president. I could go and on and on but I think on these matters most people agree even if we disagree on the ways to make it better.

That's it. I'm out. I'm here for the music and I always let my passion for politics sidetrack me. My guy won and I've got one more woman in the Senate representing me so I'm grateful for now.

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No, sweety. I'm not shook up at all. I only get that way when I listen to Jimmy's guitar.

I read your post numerous times and I wouldn't retract a single word of my response.

The only place I'm trying to "bring it all" is to make a point that we ALL need each OTHER to make this country work. Not everyone is treated equally. Women and people of color are not equally represented in government. The economy is a mess and it won't be better until there is compromise and we the people start standing up to the fact that Wall Street and corporations have way too much influence in our government. We have thousands of soldiers coming home from war who aren't cared for properly. Our public education system is a mess. Our tax system is way too complicated and benefits the extremely wealthy more than the middle class. Obama is so far from a socialist, it's ridiculous to even use that word when talking about any American president. I could go and on and on but I think on these matters most people agree even if we disagree on the ways to make it better.

That's it. I'm out. I'm here for the music and I always let my passion for politics sidetrack me. My guy won and I've got one more woman in the Senate representing me so I'm grateful for now.

I can agree with everything you said here. (above) No argument there what so ever. And I'm glad "your guy" won..Actually, he's OUR guy, (if you live in the USA) even if some of us have a problem with it. But, I know what you meant. I understand it was a heated race, and some people are upset.. I'm over it.

If Romney was ever a part of Obama's cabinet, I think it would be a brilliant move-they'd work well together-I think. Both smart individuals.

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From factcheck:

Rick Santorum blames President Barack Obama for “a nightmare of dependency with almost half of America receiving some sort of government assistance.” But the same could have been said of George W. Bush. In fact, the Census Bureau reported that in the third quarter of 2008, under Bush, “nearly half of U.S. residents live in households receiving government benefits.”

Back then, Census reported that 44.4 percent of Americans received some sort of government benefits. That has risen to 49 percent under Obama as of the most recent figures available, and much of that modest increase is due to the aging Baby Boom generation reaching retirement age.

Obama held a meeting in Silicon Valley with a lot of tech CEOs in Feb 2011. And he pointedly said {paraphrasing} "your companies have never had bigger profits or more money in the bank than they have now. When will you use some of that money to expand and start hiring"?

I think it's like a clog in a drain, sooner or later, that clog will move and we'll get real hiring again. Businesses need to start investing that money or a competitor will come up behind them and overtake them. Not a political view, just a business view.

That would be CHINA!

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That's YOUR choice to be divided and not united...get over it BOTH the popular vote and electoral college went his way - so not half of the country voted against him or that would not be a fact.

Hell, you make it sound like it was a landslide. You are just plaiin crazy. That map looked alot more red than blue to me. And it was pretty damn evenly divided once again. McCain's run was a joke and I voted for neither of them. I sat that one out. But to pretend this country is not divided is just dead wrong. Why is it that Dems and Reps both agree the country is split? BECAUSE IT FUCKING IS!!!

And to fdm12, to say women and people of color as you put it are not equally represented in government is a ridiculous statement. What are you looking for? Quota's? If you want to get to the top of the mountain you should earn it. Not get there just because you are a woman or a minority. That is another thing that is wrong with this fucked up country

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One point that was made (one of the reasons Romney possibly lost) was because he was a moderate candidate that was pulled far right by his party during/prior to the election. He wasn't his own man, in the end.

When you have 3 million Republicans not even bother to show up to vote I kinda doubt it's because he was perceived as not moderate enough by his own base. IMO it's a big mistake to think that the main reason R's are not winning elections is because they don't support amnesty or abortion. You might put off some of the independents but that is not the base to begin with, the ones that stayed home. Btw, Boehner makes me want to puke. To see our House Speaker come out and say that Obamacare is the law of the land is demoralizing to conservatives and another reason why many are turning away from the Republican Party.

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