SteveAJones Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 The outcome of this election is in fact a fundamental and permanent shift to what will become the United Welfare States of America. "The rest of the world" feels the American electorate made the right choice despite the fact it will lead to an extended global recession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTM Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 I visited my mother yesterday, as we sat watching the TV news she made a comment about Romney having what she called a lying smile and untrustworthy eyes. "The world has had a lucky escape from that one" she said...I had to laugh.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 I visited my mother yesterday, as we sat watching the TV news she made a comment about Romney having what she called a lying smile and untrustworthy eyes. "The world has had a lucky escape from that one" she said...I had to laugh.... There will be no escaping The Smirk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Historian Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Except that she was right. I just got thru reading and rereading the last few pages, and she did not jump on you for things you did not say or take things out of context...everything she remarked upon is right there in your post, plain as day. But I'm glad you two have worked it out. With LedZeppfan77 and I at peace, it's a regular little love-in here. There IS no right or wrong answer Strider...It's the reality of what goes on in the city of New Orleans pertaining to "The System" The statistic she posted, I cannot disagree with and never said I did. But I ain't gonna let somebody assume to me that my whole post (which was lenghty and somewhat detailed) was summed up by saying that ALL welfare recipients are black, ALL people on Welfare are lazy, and that I did not receive assistance after the storm. I NEVER said any of the three. To a degree, I stated the opposite, in one post or another....That's what it came down too. It's that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bong-Man Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Half the U.P. of Michigan is on government assistance, and there isn't a black or latino in sight. The Republican party has some serious problems. The demographics of America are shifting, and their positions are working against them. It wasn't only blacks, latinos, and asians, that voted against them. Check out the 18-29 vote...the female vote....the Jewish vote...all losers for the Republicans. The tea party has an approval rating of 22% across America. You can't win a general election these days by alienating all of those people. The most bizarre part of the whole thing, is there are actually Republicans complaining post-election that they needed a more conservative candidate ! Aye Kerumba !! I've got a cinder block wall over here if you insist on bloodying your heads a little more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstork Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Not at all - I cannot tell you how many people were saying "Thank You America for making the right choice " - EVERY post I saw on Facebook, for a start, every TV show, every news report. People in the rest of the world saw Romney as a backward choice. Not that we all love Obama - he's no great supporter of the UK, for a start, and has less obvious respect for us than any US President in my memory - but he's STREETS ahead of Romney in the opinion of the majority of us over here. And I meant all of the people who VOTED voted for THEIR CHOICE - which is an inescapable fact. Serious question, Knebby; given Obama's overt dissing of the UK that you point out and certainly many of us have noticed, what would bother the average Brit about Romney being elected? What is perceived as being bad for the UK in that scenario? Is it fear of a "Bush leading you guys into unnecessary wars" scenario? Educate me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
in_the_evening Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Questions for the Republicans. How do you propose they nominate more moderate candidates when it is the extreme meat-eaters that satisfies their base? The solid block of the GOP's electoral vote is The South...the Bible Belt. This is their foundation and they like their Republicans to the far right. To win a primary here, a Republican candidate has to please the Evangelicals, the NRA, the Sarah Palin crowd, Donald Wildmon's Focus on the Family, and maybe even the John Birch Society. For a candidate to make it through the minefield of the Republican primaries and still be appealing to the moderate independents in the general election is near impossible. It depends on the Democrats nominating an incompetent boob of their own. Rockefeller Republicans, Eisenhower Republicans, Reagan Republicans...these are nearly extinct creatures. Boehner and Newt Gingrich and the Teabaggers have practically shunted any moderate Republicans in the House aside...they don't get a say in anything nor get the important appointments on House committees. If the Republicans keep leaning so far right they make the Democrats appear to be in the center, they are in a world of trouble. It will be interesting. GOPers already talking about Rubio from Florida. But, with Rush and Glen Beck and FOX News and all the hate radio (and even some of the posts on here) still spouting heavy anti-immigrant ideas, just how does the GOP base one day wake up and say "no, no, we love immigrants"! And CONVINCE the Latinos, women, asians, african americans, etc, that they really mean it, and all this stuff from the last 50 years or so doesn't matter.... If Romney could have been more moderate, it would have been a real horse race. But Strider is right, by the time you appease all the whack jobs in the far rabid right, you have given so much ammunition to the Dems, I don't know how you shake it off. And there is a fair contingent in the GOP, mostly the TeaBaggers, who are saying "we just need a more conservative candidate next time". Yes, and you will win the South hugely, and lose the rest of the country. Again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstork Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 It will be interesting. GOPers already talking about Rubio from Florida. But, with Rush and Glen Beck and FOX News and all the hate radio (and even some of the posts on here) still spouting heavy anti-immigrant ideas, just how does the GOP base one day wake up and say "no, no, we love immigrants"! And CONVINCE the Latinos, women, asians, african americans, etc, that they really mean it, and all this stuff from the last 50 years or so doesn't matter.... If Romney could have been more moderate, it would have been a real horse race. But Strider is right, by the time you appease all the whack jobs in the far rabid right, you have given so much ammunition to the Dems, I don't know how you shake it off. And there is a fair contingent in the GOP, mostly the TeaBaggers, who are saying "we just need a more conservative candidate next time". Yes, and you will win the South hugely, and lose the rest of the country. Again. It shouldn't be THAT hard, but it is a real challenge. The left has successfully painted the right as anti-immigrant, when most are concerned with ILLEGAL immigration. Romney hurt himself big time when he outflanked Rick Perry on immigration in the primaries. That might not have been THE move that cost him the election, but then again it could have been! I have Cubans in my family by marriage, who all view the democrats as moving our government in the wrong direction, towards the type of government they came here to get away from. Which is exactly what Rubio said at the convention. He has to have a prominent role in shaping the party going forward, and you can bet he will. The Republicans also have to reverse engineer Obama's vaunted ground game to whatever extent they can. You're right in pointing out the ways Romney hurt himself but a sober analysis of what happened Tuesday night shows that Obama got the vote out in a way that surprised even some media elements sympathetic to his cause. Makes it look like Repubs are playing checkers while Dems are playing chess.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
in_the_evening Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 You make some good points mstork. I would offer a few purely non-partisan points: For all the talk about changing demographics, we have to ask why Romney lost states like New Hampshire, Iowa, and Vermont, where the electorate is 95 percent plus white. I am sure there are a few others. You are right about the ground game. In my state, you can register to vote at the polls on election day. One town had thirty percent of it's votes that day people who signed up that day! The college town next door had something like twenty percent of it's votes new people that day. Of course, this is just one state. And lastly, for those of us (myself included) that think this is a monstrous wake up call for the GOP, let's look at the popular vote and realize that with some small tweaking, it is likely the outcome would have been a lot closer. Most troubling is probably the youth vote, which turned out in big numbers, and went overwhelming for the Dems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3hrsoflunacy Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 It shouldn't be THAT hard, but it is a real challenge. The left has successfully painted the right as anti-immigrant, when most are concerned with ILLEGAL immigration. Romney hurt himself big time when he outflanked Rick Perry on immigration in the primaries. That might not have been THE move that cost him the election, but then again it could have been! I have Cubans in my family by marriage, who all view the democrats as moving our government in the wrong direction, towards the type of government they came here to get away from. Which is exactly what Rubio said at the convention. He has to have a prominent role in shaping the party going forward, and you can bet he will. I don't think it can be boiled down to 1 thing that cost him the election. First and foremost almost all of news channels were clearly in Obama's favor, which certainly is going to influence the uninformed voter. Secondly, the GOP was painted negatively on all social issues, not just immigration. Third, every time a politician opened his mouth and said something really stupid about rape, abortion, etc. it was a Repub. Lastly, in the primaries Mitt had to appeal to the base and be conservative to get the nomination. Once he got it, he had to move to the center to appeal to the broader electorate. This helped label him as a flip flopper. Plus I don't think he was specific enough with some of his plans when questioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knebby Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Serious question, Knebby; given Obama's overt dissing of the UK that you point out and certainly many of us have noticed, what would bother the average Brit about Romney being elected? What is perceived as being bad for the UK in that scenario? Is it fear of a "Bush leading you guys into unnecessary wars" scenario? Educate me! I respect you and so I'll try to answer this over the weekend by PM. Anything I post on here will be distorted and ridiculed by Del and his cronies. Cheers MS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinkerbelle Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 I never had hard feeling towards you [strider]. But MM is a different story ORLY? So that's why you trolled the shit out of Strider last year, accusing him of bullshitting about having seen LZ many times? For which you were justifiably banned...and you then spent weeks sucking mod cock to get back on, like the pathetic, no-life addict you are? Not content with that, you went on to tell Strider, and later post here, that I had egged you on - whereas in truth, the idea was yours, and yours alone, as evidenced by a series of emails I fwded to Strider recently, in order to exonerate myself - and which, incidentally, I'm happy to fwd to Sam, in the hope that he will finally do the right thing and ban you again. Quite how you're still allowed on this forum is beyond me. Go fuck yourself, you lying Nazi CUNT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigi Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 While I do my best to steer clear of these threads, I would like to comment on a couple of stereotypes that I’ve seen a few times here. What’s with the misconception that all democrats are “takers” (whatever that means) or “uninformed” or "lazy"? I’m a democrat and have been since I voted for Mondale/Ferraro in my first ever presidential election in 1984. Yep...that wasn’t pretty! Most of my close friends and family are democrats. We all graduated from college and we work hard to earn money to support our families and to give back to our communities. We pay our taxes....lots of taxes.... and not one of us has ever “taken” anything from anyone. We educate ourselves and make informed decisions prior to voting. In fact, I have crossed party lines lots of times. Believe it or not, there are loads of responsible, college educated, successful people out there who are democrats, for a lot of different reasons. I choose to keep my reasons to myself. Just because someone thinks differently than you do does not make them inferior or stupid. Hell, I am married to a republican who I love with all my heart and who I completely respect! We just agree to disagree about politics and it all works out. From time to time, we have very civil discussions about the issues when we choose to and we both respectfully listen to the other person’s points. To my knowledge, I have only known one person in my life who has been on welfare - my devout Catholic cousin who does not believe in birth control and has SEVEN children. While her husband works hard, she clearly does not have time to work outside the home so they rely on welfare to help feed their SEVEN children, who she home schools by the way. Neither my cousin nor her husband graduated from high school so how she is qualified to home school is beyond me, but that’s another issue. Now, who did she vote for? Governor Romney. But, you know what, I still love her and wish her and the children only the best. On a much lighter note - GO TEXANS!! But, I guess that belongs in another thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knebby Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 ORLY? So that's why you trolled the shit out of Strider last year, accusing him of bullshitting about having seen LZ many times? For which you were justifiably banned...and you then spent weeks sucking mod cock to get back on, like the pathetic, no-life addict you are? Not content with that, you went on to tell Strider, and later post here, that I had egged you on - whereas in truth, the idea was yours, and yours alone, as evidenced by a series of emails I fwded to Strider recently, in order to exonerate myself - and which, incidentally, I'm happy to fwd to Sam, in the hope that he will finally do the right thing and ban you again. Quite how you're still allowed on this forum is beyond me. Go fuck yourself, you lying Nazi CUNT. Since you took it upon yourself to forward personal information about me and my daughter to various people on this site FOR NO REASON, I can't see how you are in any position to be spouting off about whether or not people should be allowed on this site. You broke every rule in the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bong-Man Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Some people need to slow down a bit. There's no reason to get banned over anything being discussed here. The mods have proved they are quite willing to cull the herd when necessary, so don't make that decision so easy for them. Don't let the close vote fool you. I'm a life-long Democrat, and this election was the Republicans' for the taking. If you couldn't win against this candidate's record, you've got some internal party problems. If your party doesn't make adjustments, it won't turn out any better in '16. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deborah J Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 So you are basically saying that the Americans who exercised their constitutional right to vote, picked Obama just to make the rest of the world happy? That Democrats were somehow influenced by the pro-Obama and anti-Romney comments ON YOUR FACEBOOK WALL. Do you have any idea how offensive and silly that sounds to ALL Americans regardless of which party they support? Not that it really matters, but how exactly in your opinion would Romney have been a "backwards choice"? Would he have returned us to the days of silly kings and queens telling us what to do? How exactly has our President disrespected the UK? This is news to me, because I've heard him say many glowing things about the UK. Is there something specific that he did to upset you? Thank you Captain obvious! ^^Top Notch,this name calling is just childish and rude! People are twisting things being said.She is absolutely correct. Everyone that voted did vote their choice. What in the hell is so hard for some of you to understand about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedZeppfan77 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Since you took it upon yourself to forward personal information about me and my daughter to various people on this site FOR NO REASON, I can't see how you are in any position to be spouting off about whether or not people should be allowed on this site. You broke every rule in the book. Well put Knebby. We are in agreement for once. He thinks he has duped everyone. Ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedZeppfan77 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 ORLY? So that's why you trolled the shit out of Strider last year, accusing him of bullshitting about having seen LZ many times? For which you were justifiably banned...and you then spent weeks sucking mod cock to get back on, like the pathetic, no-life addict you are? Not content with that, you went on to tell Strider, and later post here, that I had egged you on - whereas in truth, the idea was yours, and yours alone, as evidenced by a series of emails I fwded to Strider recently, in order to exonerate myself - and which, incidentally, I'm happy to fwd to Sam, in the hope that he will finally do the right thing and ban you again. Quite how you're still allowed on this forum is beyond me. Go fuck yourself, you lying Nazi CUNT. My mistake for buying into your lines of bullshit. Read the above please mods as you will see he is back and up to his tricks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Notch Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 I visited my mother yesterday, as we sat watching the TV news she made a comment about Romney having what she called a lying smile and untrustworthy eyes. "The world has had a lucky escape from that one" she said...I had to laugh.... As opposed to the smug self-assured over confident Neville Chamberlain type smile of Obama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedZeppfan77 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 My mistake for buying into your lines of bullshit. Read the above please mods as you will see he is back and up to his tricks. I am sure Strider is aware of your ability to twist the truth and leave out the emails you sent? If he could only see those. I did not save them. I have better things to do. I am not a Nazi by the way. i do not know where that came from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstork Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 I don't think it can be boiled down to 1 thing that cost him the election. First and foremost almost all of news channels were clearly in Obama's favor, which certainly is going to influence the uninformed voter. Secondly, the GOP was painted negatively on all social issues, not just immigration. Third, every time a politician opened his mouth and said something really stupid about rape, abortion, etc. it was a Repub. Lastly, in the primaries Mitt had to appeal to the base and be conservative to get the nomination. Once he got it, he had to move to the center to appeal to the broader electorate. This helped label him as a flip flopper. Plus I don't think he was specific enough with some of his plans when questioned. I agree, it's not just one thing, but the Latino vote was big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstork Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 I respect you and so I'll try to answer this over the weekend by PM. Anything I post on here will be distorted and ridiculed by Del and his cronies. Cheers MS. Appreciate it, thanks Kneb!... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Notch Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Some people need to slow down a bit. There's no reason to get banned over anything being discussed here. The mods have proved they are quite willing to cull the herd when necessary, so don't make that decision so easy for them. Don't let the close vote fool you. I'm a life-long Democrat, and this election was the Republicans' for the taking. If you couldn't win against this candidate's record, you've got some internal party problems. If your party doesn't make adjustments, it won't turn out any better in '16. I think this is a great post and I hope it can get the discussion back on track. For all here it is probably better for people to read discussions and opinions voiced by the Americans from both camps who voted, and not from the peanut gallery just wanting to get their two cents in on what occured over here. I believe the numbers show that both parties did a good job of getting out the vote. Americans in many locations stood in line for hours to exercise their right to vote, and nobody believes that is a bad thing. In the greatest democracy in the world, how we transfer power has to be an example of how much we value our liberty. In this election I'm not convinced that Obama was elected on the basis of his record. Obama's approval percentage was lower than any incumbent president I can recall. It would appear that in the case of the Republican party they got all the votes they could get, but were not able to get enough of the minority (especially hispanic) votes that they need to get in order to tip the scale. G.W. Bush at one point got 44% of the hispanic vote and that was huge for a Republican. In terms of minority votes, Romney was beaten at a ratio by Obama about 4 to 1. No Republican will ever win again with those kinds of numbers tilted away from getting the hispanic/latino vote. The question going forward is how to do that. Immigration reform is the key to that. I believe that on message the Republicans could draw more black and latino votes in regard to shared values. I believe that hispanics especially benefit from policies that Republicans champion like less regulation on business, less emphasis on policies that limit agricultural expansion and trade. I don't think anyone can say that hispanics are not interested in hard work and doing jobs that many Americans no longer seem interested in. As Governer of Texas G.W. Bush not only proved that he championed agriculture, but at the same time he was soft on hard line anti immigration policies that hurts hispanic families. Romney foolishly allowed himself to be bullied into coming off hard line on that point during the nomination process. It may have come around to be one of the biggest reasons he could not overcome the 4:1 minority numbers I mentioned. I voted for Romney because I disagreed with the Obama healthcare reform that took over one sixth of our economy. I see that as bad for business, and causes far too much uncertaintly going forward. I believe that the market needs to figure out these issues through more competition and less regulation. On social issues I didn't see the "real" Romney as much different than Obama anyway. Romney was also not very passionate in his delivery. He never seemed to have any fire in his belly. Not sure if that is just the polite way that Mormons are, as most Mormons I have known are the same way. But it did not come off as inspiritional. Going forward if Obama does not break with his far left base and move more to the center the same way Clinton did in his second term. Then all we can expect is more gridlock and few results. Neither party seems to have a clear mandate after this election. Both sides would be wise to find midddle ground. Just that alone would have a monumental affect on the financial markets in my opinion. If business sees some bright spot in the near future; millions of people and businesses who are sitting on billions of dollars in capital will begin to improve the economy. But we MUST get our debt under control. I suspect the Republican will allow for some revenue increases in exchange for meaningful goverment fiscal reform. Americans can solve this. We can solve anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stryder1978 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 VERY well said Top Notch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedZeppfan77 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 I think this is a great post and I hope it can get the discussion back on track. For all here it is probably better for people to read discussions and opinions voiced by the Americans from both camps who voted, and not from the peanut gallery just wanting to get their two cents in on what occured over here. I believe the numbers show that both parties did a good job of getting out the vote. Americans in many locations stood in line for hours to exercise their right to vote, and nobody believes that is a bad thing. In the greatest democracy in the world, how we transfer power has to be an example of how much we value our liberty. In this election I'm not convinced that Obama was elected on the basis of his record. Obama's approval percentage was lower than any incumbent president I can recall. It would appear that in the case of the Republican party they got all the votes they could get, but were not able to get enough of the minority (especially hispanic) votes that they need to get in order to tip the scale. G.W. Bush at one point got 44% of the hispanic vote and that was huge for a Republican. In terms of minority votes, Romney was beaten at a ratio by Obama about 4 to 1. No Republican will ever win again with those kinds of numbers tilted away from getting the hispanic/latino vote. The question going forward is how to do that. Immigration reform is the key to that. I believe that on message the Republicans could draw more black and latino votes in regard to shared values. I believe that hispanics especially benefit from policies that Republicans champion like less regulation on business, less emphasis on policies that limit agricultural expansion and trade. I don't think anyone can say that hispanics are not interested in hard work and doing jobs that many Americans no longer seem interested in. As Governer of Texas G.W. Bush not only proved that he championed agriculture, but at the same time he was soft on hard line anti immigration policies that hurts hispanic families. Romney foolishly allowed himself to be bullied into coming off hard line on that point during the nomination process. It may have come around to be one of the biggest reasons he could not overcome the 4:1 minority numbers I mentioned. I voted for Romney because I disagreed with the Obama healthcare reform that took over one sixth of our economy. I see that as bad for business, and causes far too much uncertaintly going forward. I believe that the market needs to figure out these issues through more competition and less regulation. On social issues I didn't see the "real" Romney as much different than Obama anyway. Romney was also not very passionate in his delivery. He never seemed to have any fire in his belly. Not sure if that is just the polite way that Mormons are, as most Mormons I have known are the same way. But it did not come off as inspiritional. Going forward if Obama does not break with his far left base and move more to the center the same way Clinton did in his second term. Then all we can expect is more gridlock and few results. Neither party seems to have a clear mandate after this election. Both sides would be wise to find midddle ground. Just that alone would have a monumental affect on the financial markets in my opinion. If business sees some bright spot in the near future; millions of people and businesses who are sitting on billions of dollars in capital will begin to improve the economy. But we MUST get our debt under control. I suspect the Republican will allow for some revenue increases in exchange for meaningful goverment fiscal reform. Americans can solve this. We can solve anything. The only way they can do it, get the Latino vote, is to put one of their own in the race. Well, Rubio will give them no reason to vote against him on ethnicity. And alot of good reason to vote for him on knowledge. Rubio is one smart fellow. He will be on the ticket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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