2012 American Presidential Election

[Reggie29]

[Anjin-san]

How is the carbon tax?

[Reggie29]

^^

No effects as yet but they're coming!

[DE12]

Cheer Up, Republicans

You’re going to have a moderate Republican president for the next four years: Barack Obama.

By William Saletan|Posted Tuesday, Nov. 6, 2012, at 11:27 PM ET

Presidents Barack Obama, Richard Nixon, and Dwight Eisenhower

Photographs by Max Morse/Getty Images; AFP/Getty Images.

Dear Republicans,

Sorry about the election. I know how much it hurts when your presidential candidate loses. I’ve been there many times. You’re crestfallen. You can’t believe the public voted for that idiot. You fear for your country.

Cheer up. The guy we just re-elected is a moderate Republican.

I know how stupid that sounds. Barack Obama is the head of the Democratic Party. For five years, conservative politicians and media told you he was a raving socialist. In the heat of the campaign, when you’re trying to beat the guy, it’s hard to let go of that image of him, just as it’s hard for Democrats to see past the caricatures of Mitt Romney. But now that the campaign is over and you’re staring at a second Obama term, the falsity of the propaganda may come as a relief. By and large, Obama’s instincts are the instincts of a moderate Republican. His policies are the policies of a moderate Republican. He stands where the GOP used to stand and will someday stand again.

Yes, Obama began his presidency with bailouts, stimulus, and borrowing. You know who started the bailouts? George W. Bush. Bush knew that under these exceptionally dire circumstances, bailouts had to be done. Stimulus had to be done, too, since the economy had frozen up. A third of the stimulus was tax cuts. Once the economy began to revive, Obama offered a $4-trillion debt reduction framework that would have cut $3 to $6 of spending for every $1 in tax hikes. That’s a higher ratio of cuts to hikes than Republican voters, in a Gallup poll, said they preferred. It’s way more conservative than the ratio George H. W. Bush accepted in 1990. In last year’s debt-ceiling talks, Obama offered cuts to Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid in exchange for revenue that didn’t even come from higher tax rates. Now he’s proposing to lower corporate tax rates, and Republicans are whining that he hacked $716 billion out of Medicare. Some socialist.

Yes, Obama imposed an individual mandate to buy health insurance. You know who else did that? Romney. You know where the idea came from? The Heritage Foundation. Personal responsibility—insisting that people carry private insurance so we don’t have to bail them out in emergency rooms and hospitals—was a Republican idea. Same with Wall Street reform: There’s nothing conservative about letting financial institutions gamble with other people’s money in ways that would force us to bail them out again. Even Obama’s cap-and-trade proposal echoed the market-based emissions-control policies of the 1990 Bush administration and the 2008 McCain campaign. And last year, when the EPA proposed a new air-pollution limit, Obama ticked off environmentalists by killing it on the grounds that it might jeopardize the recovery.

Remember how Democrats ridiculed George W. Bush’s troop surge in Iraq? Obama copied it in Afghanistan. He escalated the drone program, killing off al-Qaida’s leaders. He sent SEAL Team 6 into Pakistan to get Osama Bin Laden. He teamed up with NATO to take down Muammar Qaddafi. He reneged on his pledge to close Guantanamo Bay. He put together a globally enforced regime of sanctions that is bringing Iran’s economy to its knees. That’s why Romney had nothing to say in last month’s foreign policy debate. No sensible Republican president would have done things differently.

Obama’s no right-winger. You might have serious issues with his Supreme Court justices or his moves on immigration or the Bush tax cuts. But you probably would have had similar issues with Dwight Eisenhower, Richard Nixon, or Gerald Ford. Obama’s in the same mold as those guys. So don’t despair. Your country didn’t vote for a socialist tonight. It voted for the candidate of traditional Republican moderation. What should gall you, haunt you, and goad you to think about the future of your party is that that candidate wasn’t yours.

[Anjin-san]

I am so happy!

[Walter]

Dredging through the older posts for nose-rubbing fodder.

Well-played.

You are correct, sir.

Actually I read your prediction for the first time today after not visiting this thread for a while. But, if you're gonna go out on a limb like that one, you have to expect to be called on it. Can't be like Mitt and change your position when it's only 10 pages behind you....

[Anjin-san]

Barry never did?

[Deborah J]

Strider, great post (several of them),fdm12, totally agree, Bong Man, another great post in regards to Church & State, in_the_evening, let us hope they can reach a point where they work together.

I have worked in the hotel business all of my life and we are typically a bellwether industry. This year overall occupancy is up almost 6% and a growth in ADR (Average Daily Rate) by almost 3%. So when people say things are not getting better, I just don't get it. I have been through a few recessions but what happened under Bush was by far the worst. I and some of my colleagues left the big names in the industry because they have become so greedy that they let go of many of us that had earned them millions in revenue, so they could replace us with people who would take 50/70% less in salary!. Now that things are picking up and they want us back due to our contacts and relationships...needless to say we tell them no or we will ask for a VERY high salary, that is well deserved. They worked us 75/80 hours a week for decades then treated a lot of us like we we meant nothing to them. Karma is a great thing! Right now in Atlanta alone there are so many sales positions open in the big name hotels.

I can only speak for myself, but things do seem to be getting better, slowly I admit. No president could come in and make everything great again in just 4 years with the mess that was left!

I just hope this is a wake up call, and that both parties work together...and leave religion out of politics.

[planted]

Well, that's the ballgame.

All I know is, I have had a mortgage since I was 23 yrs old, have always had a job, often 2 at a time, including now. Managed to raise 2 kids and stay with the same guy for 25 years. I know what you're thinking...BOOOORRRRRING.

Well, let me ask you something...who do you think has been paying for the wars and welfare these politicians (whom you cant WAIT to get out and vote for, and scoff at those like me who said nope, Im staying home) seems to be so great at selling to the American public regardless of party? It's not people who don't work or who work under the table. No, no, no...it's never those with their hand out being told to do with less, that might hurt their fee-wings. And, its high time we leave other countries alone to do whatever they want to each other. You want to live in a country where women are prohibited from an education and 14 yr olds are shot in the streets in 2012? Go for it. But, you're not getting my only son. Fix it yourself. I am tired of being a human ATM, and not being able to do things for my own family with the money I EARN.

Ok, take your shots.

[in_the_evening]

Please finish your post, no sense stopping before you tell us what Obama did with the debt, deficit, and unemployment rate he inherited. The suspense is killing me.

Let's see the 1.4 trillion $ deficit he inherited is now 1.1 trillion.

The 7.4 % unemployment he inherited is now 7.2 percent.

The debt has gone from 11 trillion to 16 trillion.

He hasn't been a success on everything, but come on. I know with the hyper-partisan attitudes in the USA currently, we cannot admit anyone in the other party has EVER done anything good. I already said Bush bailing out the banks was huge, a gigantic move that he did even though it was against everything he believed in. But he did it because the alternative was unthinkable. I give him huge kudos for that.

[mstork]

Actually I read your prediction for the first time today after not visiting this thread for a while. But, if you're gonna go out on a limb like that one, you have to expect to be called on it. Can't be like Mitt and change your position when it's only 10 pages behind you....

Yeah, you can't change your position but you can "evolve". ;-)

[mstork]

Let's see the 1.4 trillion $ deficit he inherited is now 1.1 trillion.

The 7.4 % unemployment he inherited is now 7.2 percent.

The debt has gone from 11 trillion to 16 trillion.

He hasn't been a success on everything, but come on. I know with the hyper-partisan attitudes in the USA currently, we cannot admit anyone in the other party has EVER done anything good. I already said Bush bailing out the banks was huge, a gigantic move that he did even though it was against everything he believed in. But he did it because the alternative was unthinkable. I give him huge kudos for that.

That deficit is an abomination (as was Bush's).

Unemployment is now 7.9%, higher than when he took office. And we all know the real number is a lot higher.

And that debt, $5 trillion added in one term.

This is the BIG stuff we need him to lead on and he either won't or can't. Why not embrace Simpson-Bowles? Because it didn't give him everything he wanted? I'm an Independent and I just can't give him credit when he spent all of 2008 pointing out the "unpatriotic" fiscal situation then pivoted to a hyper partisan healthcare bill.

[LedZeppfan77]

That deficit is an abomination (as was Bush's).

Unemployment is now 7.9%, higher than when he took office. And we all know the real number is a lot higher.

And that debt, $5 trillion added in one term.

This is the BIG stuff we need him to lead on and he either won't or can't. Why not embrace Simpson-Bowles? Because it didn't give him everything he wanted? I'm an Independent and I just can't give him credit when he spent all of 2008 pointing out the "unpatriotic" fiscal situation then pivoted to a hyper partisan healthcare bill.

Pathetic when illegal immigrants are allowed to flock in and cast votes to ensure this prick another term. Ohio, to me is the equivalent of hell on Earth full of devils. At leats if Rubio ges the next nomination he will neutralize the latino vote? The youth in this country and the blacks did not vote on the evidence of his non accomplishments. They voted race and for a guy that wiil "give them things". Food stamps for one. This is a sad day in this country

[Rock Historian]

For those who are interested in discussing this further, aside from this site-there is a great local news radio/talk show going on nightly in New Orleans that is broadcast in 40 something states nationwide. It's called WWL 870am. From 8-12 midnight it's called the Scoot show. As of now he is talking about the election and people's thoughts...Yes, you can call up toll free if you like and voice your thoughts, or just listen. It's very informative and interesting. People from all over the country call in nightly on different topics. But I assume the Election will be the hot topic for a few nights to come.

One point that was made (one of the reasons Romney possibly lost) was because he was a moderate candidate that was pulled far right by his party during/prior to the election. He wasn't his own man, in the end.

Also, you cannot mix Religion with Politics. Two No No's the Republican party made, and I agree with those observations.

I wanted to post this link, because I believe a lot of you here that are frequent visitors/posters to this thread WILL definitely enjoy it....I'll be listening in the meantime. It's a good show.

Here's the link : http://www.wwl.com/

You can stream it live by clicking it in the top right hand corner.

Enjoy

[LedZeppfan77]

For those who are interested in discussing this further, aside from this site-there is a great local news radio/talk show going on nightly in New Orleans that is broadcast in 40 something states nationwide. It's called WWL 870am. From 8-12 midnight it's called the Scoot show. As of now he is talking about the election and people's thoughts...Yes, you can call up toll free if you like and voice your thoughts, or just listen. It's very informative and interesting. People from all over the country call in nightly on different topics. But I assume the Election will be the hot topic for a few nights to come.

One point that was made (one of the reasons Romney possibly lost) was because he was a moderate candidate that was pulled far right by his party during/prior to the election. He wasn't his own man, in the end.

Also, you cannot mix Religion with Politics. Two No No's the Republican party made, and I agree with those observations.

I wanted to post this link, because I believe a lot of you here that are frequent visitors/posters to this thread WILL definitely enjoy it....I'll be listening in the meantime. It's a good show.

Here's the link : http://www.wwl.com/

You can stream it live by clicking it in the top right hand corner.

Enjoy

Thanks for the link, there is plenty of talk on this everywhere. all major news networks on satellite and cable, and all local news channels on radio and such. Even the hurricane has played its part in the outcome. When people voice their opinions on mixing religion and polotics there is sure to be rage born from it. At least half of this country is pissed off right now. And it shouldnt be that way. Even though Kennedy and Nixon were very close, I doubt there was as much outrage the next day as there is on this election. The second guessing begins as it did when Gore lost the White house by the narrowest of margins. This too could have gone differently. Just look at the map and you would think Romney had won. I see alot more red than blue.

[Sagittarius Rising]

Question: There seems to be an issue with the Benghazi tragedy and how Obama handled it so...Do those who feel Obama dropped the ball in Libya and should be impeached ALSO feel the same about Reagan and his handling of the 1983 Lebanon bombing which killed 284 Marines? Should Reagan have been impeached? His inaction and lack of both resolve and response was far more egregious than Obama's. Reagan and his staff were warned REPEATEDLY by both the CIA and Mossad that an attack was imminent yet nothing was done. Then as a response Reagan pulled the remaining Marines and left the Israeli's to finish what we should never have started.

This is just a question and personally I do not blame Reagan nor do I think him inept. These tragedies happen when you have a global footprint, sometimes they can be avoided, sometimes not.

One thing I am very happy about with this election (beside the obvious) is that I believe the Republicans will learn a valuable lesson. This loss by the Republicans with a large majority of the popular vote going to Obama speaks volumes to the elephant (no pun intended) in the room. The Republican Party MUST change back to it's 1960's - 1980's positions on social issues and taxation if they are to become a relevant player in the future. I would love it for an Eisenhower type to win in 2016, or even better, a Theodore Roosevelt type, but the latter would be pushing it since Roosevelt was WAY to progressive for either party in todays zeitgeist.

Opinions????

[DE12]

He wasn't his own man, in the end.Also, you cannot mix Religion with Politics. Two No No's the Republican party made, and I agree with those observations.I wanted to post this link, because I believe a lot of you here that are frequent visitors/posters to this thread WILL definitely enjoy it....I'll be listening in the

It's almost impossible for any candidate to be his/her own man/woman and be elected. The way the political process has evolved in this country (on both sides) makes it very difficult to do that. There are "Profiles of Courage" (I don't count Romney among these) on both sides of the aisle that have led to terminated political careers. Thanks for the link.

Pathetic when illegal immigrants are allowed to flock in and cast votes to ensure this prick another term. Ohio, to me is the equivalent of hell on Earth full of devils. At leats if Rubio ges the next nomination he will neutralize the latino vote? The youth in this country and the blacks did not vote on the evidence of his non accomplishments. They voted race and for a guy that wiil "give them things". Food stamps for one. This is a sad day in this country

Enough is enough, here. You've made blatantly racist comments for almost 24 hours now and have called Obama every name in the book. Other Romney supporters have been able to express their views without succumbing to this level of discourse.

There is ZERO evidence of illegal immigrants voting and your stance that youths, blacks, and Latinos vote based on an ignorance of his non-accomplishments is offensive. Your guy lost. Accept it with some grace for goodness' sake. Or fight it based on your disagreement of policies not on the ethnicity or age of those who support the winner.

And for the record, - coming from someone who has never voted GOP- the Democrats, the Chicago Machine to be specific, stole the 1960 election.

You also keep looking at a map of red and blue and insisting it reflects that Romney could not have lost.

Missouri is a red state with 6 million people. New York is a blue state with 19 million.

It's basic arithmetic and it's about the Electoral College. You can disagree with that but no matter what you think Romney did not win. He didn't win the popular vote and he didn't win the electoral vote.

Obama's victory is clear.

[Rock Historian]

Thanks for the link, there is plenty of talk on this everywhere. all major news networks on satellite and cable, and all local news channels on radio and such. Even the hurricane has played its part in the outcome. When people voice their opinions on mixing religion and polotics there is sure to be rage born from it. At least half of this country is pissed off right now. And it shouldnt be that way. Even though Kennedy and Nixon were very close, I doubt there was as much outrage the next day as there is on this election. The second guessing begins as it did when Gore lost the White house by the narrowest of margins. This too could have gone differently. Just look at the map and you would think Romney had won. I see alot more red than blue.

The link is playing ESPN for some reason..WTF, I dunno. I called the station about it. I don't wanna send someone to the site and it doesn't work. That would be embarrassing. I've been on the air a few times, and not just for this topic. It's a GREAT show to listen too and to give you opinion if you feel the need.

Anyway, honestly I think Romney meant well Rick and he really did want to change this country for the better. I truly believe that. He has proven to be a good businessman, and that's partly what this country needs. He was heartbroken when he lost. Unfortunately,the Republican party fucked up by making this guy their puppet towards the end, instead of them letting the guy be himself. Yes, that is what some else said on air, but it's true.

Now reality has set in, so instead of being mad for the next 4 years because there was a loser (that's the way it goes) all we can do is back this guy and hope he does a little better with the economy. We don't have a choice but to stand by him and continue to work hard and do as we do everyday as individuals.

And I agree about the electoral votes playing a huge role in ANY candidate winning an election. They shouldn't even have that play a part in the popular vote or the final verdict. It should be that simple...the best man wins by popular vote, not by 8 or 9 crucial states that the parties have to fight for to win the whole thing.

If you notice in most elections like this one (Presidential) the states that were RED and BLUE are usually that way consistently with all elections. So it's up to the particular party to win Ohio, Virginia, Florida , etc, etc - that determines the outcome. That's the main focus.

The Dem's had been focusing on Ohio since 2008-2009. The car dealership owners/ workers there owed it to Obama, so that was a no-brainer who would win that state.

[Rock Historian]

It's almost impossible for any candidate to be his/her own man/woman and be elected. The way the political process has evolved in this country (on both sides) makes it very difficult to do that. There are "Profiles of Courage" (I don't count Romney among these) on both sides of the aisle that have led to terminated political careers. Thanks for the link.

The Republican party tried this tactic with 2 other elections (with pulling their moderate candidate far right) and it failed both times..this makes number 3.

There will never be a person elected in this country that is perceived by the public as a far right candidate. They are viewed as narrow-minded.

Lastly, if Republicans continue to make an issue on Abortion and Same-Sex marriage, they will never win the White House.

[LedZeppfan77]

The link is playing ESPN for some reason..WTF, I dunno. I called the station about it. I don't wanna send someone to the site and it doesn't work. That would be embarrassing. I've been on the air a few times, and not just for this topic. It's a GREAT show to listen too and to give you opinion if you feel the need.

Anyway, honestly I think Romney meant well Rick and he really did want to change this country for the better. I truly believe that. He has proven to be a good businessman, and that's partly what this country needs. He was heartbroken when he lost. Unfortunately,the Republican party fucked up by making this guy their puppet towards the end, instead of them letting the guy be himself. Yes, that is what some else said on air, but it's true.

Now reality has set in, so instead of being mad for the next 4 years because there was a loser (that's the way it goes) all we can do is back this guy and hope he does a little better with the economy. We don't have a choice but to stand by him and continue to work hard and do as we do everyday as individuals.

And I agree about the electoral votes playing a huge role in ANY candidate winning an election. They shouldn't even have that play a part in the popular vote or the final verdict. It should be that simple...the best man wins by popular vote, not by 8 or 9 crucial states that the parties have to fight for to win the whole thing.

If you notice in most elections like this one (Presidential) the states that were RED and BLUE are usually that way consistently with all elections. So it's up to the particular party to win Ohio, Virginia, Florida , etc, etc - that determines the outcome. That's the main focus.

The Dem's had been focusing on Ohio since 2008-2009. The car dealership owners/ workers there owed it to Obama, so that was a no-brainer who would win that state.

But something is foul when a certain race votes at a 96 percent clip. That is a racist vote. Pure and simple. I took statistics in college and it defies all logic. Its an embarresment to this country. Right now the smart money says Obama will fuck things up more than ever and then we will have a Hillary vs Rubio contest in 2016. Of course it may not play out this way, Hillary probably has a far less chance of getting the nomination than Rubio.. Its pretty sad when you cant have an election decided on the merits of the issues and rather it becomes a racial divide that decides it. And Gender too. Oh, those poor poor women have it so damn hard here don't they? This is not the 1920's for God's sake. The Couny executive here is a woman. She has more power than any man in this fucking town. The spin machine is at work 24/7 in dirty polotics. And a blind and uneducated public led by the youth of this country cannot see through it. They are too fucking lazy sending texts and listening to their I Pods and drving, all at the same time. How many of them really know the issues like the 13 year old girl that was posted on this site? And IMO if you were not born here, you should not be able to vote here. At least not until you have lived here a good number of years. I know of nobody that had to even show ID at the polling place they went to. Mitt Romney is a good guy who cares. And a smart guy. And to Mr Obama, I happen to love my wife too. What the hell does that have to do with the price of gas? Who cares what dress your wife is wearing. I sure as fuck dont. I do care about where you decide to get our gasoline from? And who you will give out free food stamps to this month. And now I have to look at your ugly ass for 4 more years. Amen for term limits.

[cryingbluerain]

Now reality has set in, so instead of being mad for the next 4 years because there was a loser (that's the way it goes) all we can do is back this guy and hope he does a little better with the economy. We don't have a choice but to stand by him and continue to work hard and do as we do everyday as individuals.

Like the Dems did with Bush? I have never heard so much disrespect for a Prez as I did for GW. But yeah, we need to back BO with higher taxes, more spending, Obamacare, etc. Hey, at least his intentions are good right? And you know what the road to hell is paved with don't you? And it wouldn't surprise me in the least if they are still trying to blame the economy on Bush if it remains in the crapper after the next 4 years.

[Rock Historian]

Romney did a lot for his community, and genuinely cared about people. The Repub's pulled this guy too far right and then in the end when he tried to project his own individual moral values and beliefs he looked like he was flip-flopping (so obvious) on a lot of issues. *(Immigration, abortion, etc) His own party lost him this Election, not Mitt Romney himself. He lost his identity within the thick of it all and became what they wanted him to project. He may have attracted more of the minority vote had this not happened.

Obama came off as much more appealing, and a people person to the majority of the nation. I didn't buy it, but it worked enough to get him 4 more.

I'm listening to 870 am while typing this.... (check out the link in my earlier post above).. It's really good stuff.

[LedZeppfan77]

Romney did a lot for his community, and genuinely cared about people. The Repub's pulled this guy too far right and then in the end when he tried to project his own individual moral values and beliefs he looked like he was flip-flopping on a lot of issues. *(Immigration, abortion, etc) His own party lost him this Election, not Mitt Romney himself. He lost his identity. He may have attracted more of the minority vote had this not happened.

I'm listening to 870 am while typing this.... (check out the link in my earlier post above).. It's really good stuff.

I registered, logged in and then listened live, to someone talking about the Green Bay Packers on ESPN. Oh well. You tried. I always have Foxnews and Cnn depending on which spin machine I want to puke on.

[missytootsweet]

Congratulations to President Obama and may the next 4 years be a success for 100 percent of the country.

This has probably already been said in the thread, but I'm glad those robocalls are finally done!!

Another thing, I'm glad the constant commercials where both sides often exaggerated are done.

Another thing, President Obama (or had it been President Romney) needs some cooperation from the other side. Both parties swing far more right and left than in years past making governing much harder. I hope they address that and get something done.

Another thing, I'm glad we don't have compulsory voting. My choosing to abstain from the entire process is just as important a freedom for me as my choosing to participate (which I did). It reminds me of an analogy of telling people they can pick any religion they want....but you better pick one! That's not Freedom, imo. Missy

[Rock Historian]

I registered, logged in and then listened live, to someone talking about the Green Bay Packers on ESPN. Oh well. You tried. I always have Foxnews and Cnn depending on which spin machine I want to puke on.

Yeah Rick, I posted up above that I was getting ESPN for some reason too. I called the station about it and the dumb ass screening the callers couldn't really help me out. I have it on my radio. Did you try getting it that way?

Update Rick..I just called again to complain about the ESPN deal. He said it's taken care of, so try it now!!!! It's working!!!!

And you don't have to sign up either..just hit the "listen Live" link at the top right corner.

http://player.tritonmedia.com/entercom/WWLAM