tmtomh Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 They kicked ass. What's the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambeau Leap Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Tune downs didn't rile me up at all. My enjoyment of LZ O2 is not predicated on comparison to previous versions, live/studio or other. I was grateful however that Plant didn't "quick phrase" and "short sing" like he had during the Page/Plant tours especially '98. What I was looking for was the transitions between songs, the arrangments and in particular the alternate movements. Brilliant and singular. ...and Kevin Shirley can suck it. He quick phrased or short sung Ramble On at the O2 for most of the track, didn't really care for it actually. It came off kind of choppy to me, the ONLY song of the night where I thought Robert struggled with the vocal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Agreed Sagittarius....at least Zep KNEW when "tuning down" was called for...I have seen some other older rockers not even acknowledge age and its painful to listen to...This was a classic show and actually Robert sounded better to me singing lower on a few songs... A great allusion to The Rolling Stones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Knebs Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 He quick phrased or short sung Ramble On at the O2 for most of the track I went back and listened and I think you are correct. I listened to the rehearsals and he did it then as well. He sounded gassed at the end of Kashmir. Trampled Underfoot was a lot for him as was Whole Lotta Love. Being true to the thread, I don't think its directly a function of modulating a scale up or down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reswati Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Could someone please kick that "ex zep fan" troll for posting the same shite word-for-word in 3 different threads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Knebs Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 ...seconded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clark8888 Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 I thought RP's performance was the best I've seen, either in person (Montreal, ZOSO tour), or on film/video. Obviously, time has taken its toll on his pipes, but I thought he was more engaged, interactive with the band and the audience and showing a great sense of humour. I was watching a great, mature entertainer. I've got the old stuff if I just want to hear his old pipes. The DVD has other stuff to offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pottedplant Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 To have given the performance they did at 02 - they are gods. Thanks for your candor Sagittarius Rising, ITA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Knebs Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 As a side note... Elton John has tuned down from Gm to Em on Rocket Man. Billy Joel the same on several of his songs. Even Shania Twain has dropped some of her songs down a full step. Plant still has cast iron pipes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reggie29 Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 No problem with them playing in another (lower) key but the misuse of the term "tuning down or up" is completely wrong. Tuning down happens when a guitar is tuned in Dropped D, Open C etc, or when the tuning is changed or created for songs like TTW and Rain Song. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishhead Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 As a side note... Elton John has tuned down from Gm to Em on Rocket Man. Billy Joel the same on several of his songs. Even Shania Twain has dropped some of her songs down a full step. Plant still has cast iron pipes. wow Elton!?...Gm to Em. Did not know that. Not that it matters but that is a bit of a drop. I kinda wondered... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huw Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 No problem with them playing in another (lower) key but the misuse of the term "tuning down or up" is completely wrong. Tuning down happens when a guitar is tuned in Dropped D, Open C etc, or when the tuning is changed or created for songs like TTW and Rain Song. Just saying. Disagree. Firstly there is no "rule" about how these things are named, it's all about what is in common useage. Secondly, those are better described as "alternate tunings" because the strings are tuned with intervals between them that are alternate to standard. When the relationships between te strings remain constant, but the pitch of the whole guitar has been lowered then "standard, tuned down to D" or something similar, is entirely correct. At the O2 show the #1 Les Paul was kept in standard (ie the relationships between the strings was the same) but tuned down to D (playing an E shape chord produces a D pitch chord). The whole guitar was tuned down a tone, so "tuned down" is entirely suitable, and correct, to describe what was going on. It's a perfectly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reggie29 Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Disagree. Firstly there is no "rule" about how these things are named, it's all about what is in common useage. Secondly, those are better described as "alternate tunings" because the strings are tuned with intervals between them that are alternate to standard. When the relationships between te strings remain constant, but the pitch of the whole guitar has been lowered then "standard, tuned down to D" or something similar, is entirely correct. At the O2 show the #1 Les Paul was kept in standard (ie the relationships between the strings was the same) but tuned down to D (playing an E shape chord produces a D pitch chord). The whole guitar was tuned down a tone, so "tuned down" is entirely suitable, and correct, to describe what was going on. It's a perfectly Music like everything else has it's rules and anyone who has studied music would know that. Whether or not the strings were tuned down (which doesn't make much sense when they could be played in normal concert tuning in another position), is irrelevent. The bottom line is, the songs were played and more to the point, sung in a lower key. or not Just like everything else music has rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huw Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Music like everything else has it's rules and anyone who has studied music would know that... Actually, those who have studied music a little longer come to realise that most "rules" are merely guidelines, few of which apply in all circumstances. But that's not what we're talking about here: we aren't talking about whether we can use parallel fifths, or if we can use an augmented second in a melodic line. We're just describing the guitar being tuned bellow concert pitch. You said: ...the misuse of the term "tuning down or up" is completely wrong... My point is this: Page's E strings were tuned down a tone to D; his A string was tuned down a tone to G; his D string tuned down a tone to C, the G string down a tone to F, & the B string down a tone to A. So if all the strings were tuned down a whole tone, then the whole guitar was tuned down a whole tone. Accurate description, no terms "misused". ...Whether or not the strings were tuned down (which doesn't make much sense when they could be played in normal concert tuning in another position), is irrelevent.... It makes perfect sense - tuning the guitar & bass down like that meant that Page & Jones could play the songs exactly how they always played them -ie put their fingers in the same places - and still have the sound come out at the pitch that Plant was comfortable singing at. [b[JPJ specifically mentioned this in interviews as the reason they tuned down. He even went to the trouble of having a couple of new basses bilt with longer necks specially for the lower tunings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reggie29 Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 You said: Actually, those who have studied music a little longer come to realise that most "rules" are merely guidelines, few of which apply in all circumstances. What are you implying? Yes they are sometimes guidelines, but a scale is a scale, chords are chords and tunings are tunings, all constant, only the way they are structured in pieces of music changes. But that's not what we're talking about here: we aren't talking about whether we can use parallel fifths, or if we can use an augmented second in a melodic line. We're just describing the guitar being tuned bellow concert pitch. Same goes for circle of fourths and fifths and that would be below concert pitch. I can be a smart arse too. My point is this: Page's E strings were tuned down a tone to D; his A string was tuned down a tone to G; his D string tuned down a tone to C, the G string down a tone to F, & the B string down a tone to A. So if all the strings were tuned down a whole tone, then the whole guitar was tuned down a whole tone. Accurate description, no terms "misused". We will have to agree to disagree on this one. I play a lot in Double, dropped and modal D tunings and it can be problematic keeping my guitars in tune depending on climatic conditions at different venues, indoor or outdoor. I use Ernie Ball "Not So Slinky" strings on my electric guitar tuned in D and C because they are thicker are hardier and don't break as often as lighter strings do as a result of changing back and forth, though bending can be a bit of a struggle. It makes perfect sense - tuning the guitar & bass down like that meant that Page & Jones could play the songs exactly how they always played them -ie put their fingers in the same places - and still have the sound come out at the pitch that Plant was comfortable singing at. [b[JPJ specifically mentioned this in interviews as the reason they tuned down. He even went to the trouble of having a couple of new basses bilt with longer necks specially for the lower tunings. That would be built. The songs were performed in lower keys to prevent Robert from singing too high, straining his voice and "cracking", thus tainting the performance and embarrassing him. A smart move I think, don't you? The tunings are incidental and could've just as easily been played in concert pitch just in another postion and that is a personal choice for the player(s) to make. On a side note, HTF does one do this multi-quote thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huw Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 ...What are you implying? I'm not implying anything - you said people who study music would know there are rules. I'm merely adding to that statement. ...I can be a smart arse too... No-one's trying to be a smart arse Reggie, I'm just curious as to why you seemed so upset at people using words in a perfectly acceptable way? ...We will have to agree to disagree on this one... So are you saying that Page played those songs in a lower key but with his guitar tuned to standard pitch? ...I play a lot in Double, dropped and modal D tunings and it can be problematic keeping my guitars in tune depending on climatic conditions at different venues, indoor or outdoor. I use Ernie Ball "Not So Slinky" strings on my electric guitar tuned in D and C because they are thicker are hardier and don't break as often as lighter strings do as a result of changing back and forth, though bending can be a bit of a struggle... Yeah, I change tunings a lot too, but I'm not seeing the relevance? ...That would be built... I'm partially sighted. Sometimes it's very hard for me to spot spelling mistakes among all the visual distortion. Thanks for pointing it out. ...The songs were performed in lower keys to prevent Robert from singing too high, straining his voice and "cracking", thus tainting the performance and embarrassing him... Yes. ...A smart move I think, don't you? Absolutely. I have no problem with it all. ...The tunings are incidental and could've just as easily been played in concert pitch just in another postion and that is a personal choice for the player(s) to make... Well "easily" is subjective. Certainly you can play in any key without changing tuning, but, as you say, that requires new fingering positions for everything, and if for instance the song uses open strings, then changing the fingering like that may not produce a satisfactory result. Page & Jones have played those songs hundreds of times (except For Your Life, ) and are used to particular fingerings. That's what JPJ was talking about in that interview I refered to, and why they chose to have some of the instruments tuned down to suit Robert's voice. ...On a side note, HTF does one do this multi-quote thing? It's just manual editing, type [ quote ] (with no spaces) to begin the quote & [ / quote ] (with no spaces) to end it, and you can chop up a post into however many sections you want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missytootsweet Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 On a side note, HTF does one do this multi-quote thing? It's just manual editing, type [ quote ] (with no spaces) to begin the quote & [ / quote ] (with no spaces) to end it, and you can chop up a post into however many sections you want to. Hi guys, took me awhile to figure out the Multiquote feature too. All you need to remember is you hit the Multiquote tab on all those you want to include in your reply first before you click on More Reply Options. They should all show up in a row and you can delete portions as you deem necessary. It won't work if you hit Quote and/or use the Quick Reply feature. huw, I used to do it the way you do....manually with brackets, but doing it that way you lose the name and timestamp of the post you want quoted. Anyway, hope this helps! Missy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huw Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 ....huw, I used to do it the way you do....manually with brackets, but doing it that way you lose the name and timestamp of the post you want quoted... You can put the name in the way I do it: . Anyway, hope this helps! Missy All you do is [ quote name='whoeveritis' ]. The timestamp I can live without. But actually, what I'm doing isn't really multiquoting, where you quote a number of different posts. What I'm doing is breaking up one quote into smaller sections so that I can reply to each different point that the poster has made. Thanks anyway though - I never really looked at the multi quote thing before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electric Ocean Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 A few bands have tuned down a half step for tours for eons. The Cult are one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrybonzo Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 iron maiden are still in E, so are Preist depends on how you look after your voice, some of the songs like SWTH and NQ sound a little more atmospheric in D, although the guitar sound (tone) on Celebration day is to be desired Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DewieCox Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 No problem with them playing in another (lower) key but the misuse of the term "tuning down or up" is completely wrong. Tuning down happens when a guitar is tuned in Dropped D, Open C etc, or when the tuning is changed or created for songs like TTW and Rain Song. Just saying. Every guitarist I've ever conversed with has referred to it as tuning down. What you're describing is the use of alternate and open tunings. When trying to learn songs I've often seen stuff "Open G tuned down a step to open F". I have no idea if "downtuning" is the appropriate technical term or not, but it seems like it should or could be and since just about every guitarist uses it as that, then really that's what it means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishhead Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Every guitarist I've ever conversed with has referred to it as tuning down. What you're describing is the use of alternate and open tunings. When trying to learn songs I've often seen stuff "Open G tuned down a step to open F". I have no idea if "downtuning" is the appropriate technical term or not, but it seems like it should or could be and since just about every guitarist uses it as that, then really that's what it means. tuning down means tuning down all the strings (I think someone in an earlier talked of what each string becomes)....... Drop D means you only tune the low E to D......Open C, G, D or any other alternative tuning is a whole other ball game....cheers' y'all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiron Kid Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 Maybe this is the wrong forum. If so, I apologize. I noticed on the Celebration DVD and the older "No Quarter" DVD, that Jimmy is no longer playing with his customary "Herco 75" guitar pick. Does anyone know what he is using now? It appears to be much stiffer and bigger. Thanks Kiron Kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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