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Jimmy winding us up again?


henrybonzo

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I have long maintained that the point of the OTD posts was to serve as a palate cleanser--a clearing of aftertastes (even delicious ones) as a prelude to something else. Plant's post Zep career was a bit easier to pull off in that he had the ability to use his voice and radically change the context that surrounded it. But as a supplier of riffs and musical hooks, Page has had a more difficult time of producing something that isn't immediately viewed through the lens of a Zeppelin comparison. How would you go about that? Back to the roots (Box of Frogs)? Radically shift gears (Deathwish, Chopin tunes, XYZ)? Chase relevance by attempting to assimilate into pop zeitgeist as it evolves (Coverdale/Page, Firm, Safe Sex, Outrider, Puffy)? Play elder statesman and do loose, one-off jams with the periphery of your past (Harper, Donovan, Beck)? Say fuck all and just try to give the whinging masses some limited version of what it wants (O2, Live Aid, Crowes, Page/Plant)? Maybe you could try to refocus the lens so that the public views you in a larger context than just as the architect of the Best band in the world for only a decade in a 1/2 century career (OTD--that is about WAY more than Zeppelin, Pics, vinyl releases, IMGL). Has he had trouble finding his way? Yup. Been misunderstood? Yup. But wasn't that the case all through Zeppelin as well? Think of the reactions to III, or ITTOD, or Coda. I love watching the guy struggle with his art AND struggle to redefine himself THROUGHOUT his career even while IN Zeppelin. And for all the frustration the public has had with Page over the years, my guess is he has an equal amount of frustration with us. And through it all Page, at his best, is a manager of energy. Whether in an arena with a guitar, or managing the mystique around him, he is playing with energy on a very large scale. So to bring this back to the original idea of this thread, is he winding us up again? Fuck yes he is. When has he not? And I say for one, wind away Mr. Page. Wind away.

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I have long maintained that the point of the OTD posts was to serve as a palate cleanser--a clearing of aftertastes (even delicious ones) as a prelude to something else. Plant's post Zep career was a bit easier to pull off in that he had the ability to use his voice and radically change the context that surrounded it. But as a supplier of riffs and musical hooks, Page has had a more difficult time of producing something that isn't immediately viewed through the lens of a Zeppelin comparison. How would you go about that? Back to the roots (Box of Frogs)? Radically shift gears (Deathwish, Chopin tunes, XYZ)? Chase relevance by attempting to assimilate into pop zeitgeist as it evolves (Coverdale/Page, Firm, Safe Sex, Outrider, Puffy)? Play elder statesman and do loose, one-off jams with the periphery of your past (Harper, Donovan, Beck)? Say fuck all and just try to give the whinging masses some limited version of what it wants (O2, Live Aid, Crowes, Page/Plant)? Maybe you could try to refocus the lens so that the public views you in a larger context than just as the architect of the Best band in the world for only a decade in a 1/2 century career (OTD--that is about WAY more than Zeppelin, Pics, vinyl releases, IMGL). Has he had trouble finding his way? Yup. Been misunderstood? Yup. But wasn't that the case all through Zeppelin as well? Think of the reactions to III, or ITTOD, or Coda. I love watching the guy struggle with his art AND struggle to redefine himself THROUGHOUT his career even while IN Zeppelin. And for all the frustration the public has had with Page over the years, my guess is he has an equal amount of frustration with us. And through it all Page, at his best, is a manager of energy. Whether in an arena with a guitar, or managing the mystique around him, he is playing with energy on a very large scale. So to bring this back to the original idea of this thread, is he winding us up again? Fuck yes he is. When has he not? And I say for one, wind away Mr. Page. Wind away.

The most intelligent and perceptive post in this thread. Bravo.

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I have long maintained that the point of the OTD posts was to serve as a palate cleanser--a clearing of aftertastes (even delicious ones) as a prelude to something else. Plant's post Zep career was a bit easier to pull off in that he had the ability to use his voice and radically change the context that surrounded it. But as a supplier of riffs and musical hooks, Page has had a more difficult time of producing something that isn't immediately viewed through the lens of a Zeppelin comparison. How would you go about that? Back to the roots (Box of Frogs)? Radically shift gears (Deathwish, Chopin tunes, XYZ)? Chase relevance by attempting to assimilate into pop zeitgeist as it evolves (Coverdale/Page, Firm, Safe Sex, Outrider, Puffy)? Play elder statesman and do loose, one-off jams with the periphery of your past (Harper, Donovan, Beck)? Say fuck all and just try to give the whinging masses some limited version of what it wants (O2, Live Aid, Crowes, Page/Plant)? Maybe you could try to refocus the lens so that the public views you in a larger context than just as the architect of the Best band in the world for only a decade in a 1/2 century career (OTD--that is about WAY more than Zeppelin, Pics, vinyl releases, IMGL). Has he had trouble finding his way? Yup. Been misunderstood? Yup. But wasn't that the case all through Zeppelin as well? Think of the reactions to III, or ITTOD, or Coda. I love watching the guy struggle with his art AND struggle to redefine himself THROUGHOUT his career even while IN Zeppelin. And for all the frustration the public has had with Page over the years, my guess is he has an equal amount of frustration with us. And through it all Page, at his best, is a manager of energy. Whether in an arena with a guitar, or managing the mystique around him, he is playing with energy on a very large scale. So to bring this back to the original idea of this thread, is he winding us up again? Fuck yes he is. When has he not? And I say for one, wind away Mr. Page. Wind away.

10/10 I agree completely, it's hard as a Page fanatic to see the struggle of the present than the whole perspective of his creative past.

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10/10 I agree completely, it's hard as a Page fanatic to see the struggle of the present than the whole perspective of his creative past.

I'm really sorry I don't understand this. Can you re-word it maybe?

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And for all the frustration the public has had with Page over the years, my guess is he has an equal amount of frustration with us.

Can you explain this? What was Page disappointed by? Negative reviews from critics?
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It's a fair question. I think it is safe to say that Page has been throughout his career been frustrated by the initial response to his efforts. Yes sometimes that is press. Sometimes that is fans. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that he has been time and again frustrated by the limits imposed upon his creativity by the shortsighted expectations of less creative minds. I think it goes beyond negative reviews of critics. And it is not so much disappointment as frustration. A frustration with those who perhaps resist his evolution and experimentation? It is the constant battle with public expectation that I feel he butts against, hence the cagey-pagey response to questions about what he has in the works. Better to cleanse the palette as best you can, then spring it on em rather than to create a bunch of specific expectation and then on some level disappoint those expectations. All I am saying is that every bit of it can be viewed as methodical madness if viewed in a certain way. And given what I know about Page's leanings toward the desire for control and energy manipulation, the idea that method is driving it seems a more reasonable hypothesis than the idea that he is just coasting and winging it with nothing in the works at all and having a go at us for kicks. Look I am the first to admit that I have my head up my arse as far as the next guy, but if the point of this thread is the deconstruction of Page's career moves of late w ith the idea of trying to peer inside that mysterious mind, well this is the best I can come up with. If anyone else picks it apart differently, well I am all.....eyes? It is why I come here--to get the news and read ideas about the news.

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I have long maintained that the point of the OTD posts was to serve as a palate cleanser--a clearing of aftertastes (even delicious ones) as a prelude to something else. Plant's post Zep career was a bit easier to pull off in that he had the ability to use his voice and radically change the context that surrounded it. But as a supplier of riffs and musical hooks, Page has had a more difficult time of producing something that isn't immediately viewed through the lens of a Zeppelin comparison. How would you go about that? Back to the roots (Box of Frogs)? Radically shift gears (Deathwish, Chopin tunes, XYZ)? Chase relevance by attempting to assimilate into pop zeitgeist as it evolves (Coverdale/Page, Firm, Safe Sex, Outrider, Puffy)? Play elder statesman and do loose, one-off jams with the periphery of your past (Harper, Donovan, Beck)? Say fuck all and just try to give the whinging masses some limited version of what it wants (O2, Live Aid, Crowes, Page/Plant)? Maybe you could try to refocus the lens so that the public views you in a larger context than just as the architect of the Best band in the world for only a decade in a 1/2 century career (OTD--that is about WAY more than Zeppelin, Pics, vinyl releases, IMGL). Has he had trouble finding his way? Yup. Been misunderstood? Yup. But wasn't that the case all through Zeppelin as well? Think of the reactions to III, or ITTOD, or Coda. I love watching the guy struggle with his art AND struggle to redefine himself THROUGHOUT his career even while IN Zeppelin. And for all the frustration the public has had with Page over the years, my guess is he has an equal amount of frustration with us. And through it all Page, at his best, is a manager of energy. Whether in an arena with a guitar, or managing the mystique around him, he is playing with energy on a very large scale. So to bring this back to the original idea of this thread, is he winding us up again? Fuck yes he is. When has he not? And I say for one, wind away Mr. Page. Wind away.

I think you're just overanalyzing the situation.
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I agree with this except I don't know exactly what Page himself wanted to get out of the OTD posts, but I view them as a gift to the fans. They're entertaining, they're information, and it's all free. Of course the On This Day feature does publicize the website, which sells some merchandise, but there is no obligation to buy :). If I were Page I would get frustrated by the fans sometimes...it's still a mystery to me why "Presence" didn't sell as well as the previous Zep albums, people whine about the post-Zep work not living up to expectations, etc etc. And now there is the complaining about "Jimmy winding us up again." Only human. People including myself sometimes say we're going to do things and don't do them. I haven't made any progress on a single one of my New Year's resolutions, for example. If I were Jimmy Page's therapist I would tell him: Don't listen. If there's something you feel a need to express musically, do it, but not for other people's expectations nor to prove something to yourself.

I have long maintained that the point of the OTD posts was to serve as a palate cleanser--a clearing of aftertastes (even delicious ones) as a prelude to something else. Plant's post Zep career was a bit easier to pull off in that he had the ability to use his voice and radically change the context that surrounded it. But as a supplier of riffs and musical hooks, Page has had a more difficult time of producing something that isn't immediately viewed through the lens of a Zeppelin comparison. How would you go about that? Back to the roots (Box of Frogs)? Radically shift gears (Deathwish, Chopin tunes, XYZ)? Chase relevance by attempting to assimilate into pop zeitgeist as it evolves (Coverdale/Page, Firm, Safe Sex, Outrider, Puffy)? Play elder statesman and do loose, one-off jams with the periphery of your past (Harper, Donovan, Beck)? Say fuck all and just try to give the whinging masses some limited version of what it wants (O2, Live Aid, Crowes, Page/Plant)? Maybe you could try to refocus the lens so that the public views you in a larger context than just as the architect of the Best band in the world for only a decade in a 1/2 century career (OTD--that is about WAY more than Zeppelin, Pics, vinyl releases, IMGL). Has he had trouble finding his way? Yup. Been misunderstood? Yup. But wasn't that the case all through Zeppelin as well? Think of the reactions to III, or ITTOD, or Coda. I love watching the guy struggle with his art AND struggle to redefine himself THROUGHOUT his career even while IN Zeppelin. And for all the frustration the public has had with Page over the years, my guess is he has an equal amount of frustration with us. And through it all Page, at his best, is a manager of energy. Whether in an arena with a guitar, or managing the mystique around him, he is playing with energy on a very large scale. So to bring this back to the original idea of this thread, is he winding us up again? Fuck yes he is. When has he not? And I say for one, wind away Mr. Page. Wind away.

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I don't think Jimmy is necessarily disappointed by his fans and I don't think he has any reason to be. Which band has more devout fans than those of Led Zeppelin?

I agree with this except I don't know exactly what Page himself wanted to get out of the OTD posts, but I view them as a gift to the fans.

OTD posts are a big fucking joke in my opinion.

it's still a mystery to me why "Presence" didn't sell as well as the previous Zep albums

Presence is a good album but not as good as the previous six.
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jimmy is a legendary guitarist and always will be. however, his days as a creative artist are long over. in my opinion he lost a lot of his ability because of his heavy drug use from about 1977-1984. this is when his decline started. when you abuse your body you do pay a price.

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It's not "information". It's something that is generally believed to be true among rock listeners. Presence can be your favorite album but it isn't as influential and innovative as the previous five.

I'm sorry, but you have no evidence for this. I love it, all my "rock listener" friends love it. Chicago ^ loves it. You simply cannot back up this statement.
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It's not "information". It's something that is generally believed to be true among rock listeners. Presence can be your favorite album but it isn't as influential and innovative as the previous five.

Jeez Geez! "generally believed" is a pretty embellished way of saying "opinion".

Look at what other rock albums that were recorded in 1976 and then say that "Presence" was not influential or innovative??

LZ1 > LZII was a natural progression. Innovative? maybe, maybe not.

LZIII > LZIV - they went from granola munching to writing the song that gets over played and overused.

HOTH > PG - weak to an ad hoc double album with moments of greatness. Influential or innovative? perhaps.

"Presence" - they were making music unlike anything else on the planet. They had nothing to lose at this point and this can "generally be believed" to be VERY influential to most. Zeppelin had the balls to do it.

let's get real, most listeners are not so analytical.

just my 2 cents.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Presence has given us one of the most complex, brilliant, under-rated, works of pure musical genius

in "Achillies Last Stand"...this song was like STH on high grade steroids! IMO of course.

In that way, I believe that Presence was very influential, but never matched by anyone.

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It's not "information". It's something that is generally believed to be true among rock listeners.

I've definitely seen this attitude from more casual listeners, but much less so from hardcore fans.

In fact, upon first discovering sites such as this and R-O, I was pleasantly surprised by how well-received Presence is.

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