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New box sets including unreleased material

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FYI, I went to Best Buy last week to buy the Double Deluxe CD editions of IV and Houses of the Holy for everyday use; that way I can keep my Super Deluxe ones mint. I discovered a Best Buy "exclusive" Led Zeppelin IV box which included a T-shirt with the cover art along with the deluxe cd package. Price was $26. Didn't see one for Houses of the Holy.

Cool, I never saw those there. I'll have to go back up and see if those are there, thanks for the info Strider.

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Because Jimmy himself has anything to do with the production of the vinyl.

I have no idea who is responsible but he's promoting them and is the public face.

Regardless, my comment was meant to be tongue in cheek, the Internet isnt a great forum for that unless you use emoji or multiple exclamation marks.

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This is another thing that irks me about Jimmy Page's approach to the companion audio. Why is he allowing the bootleggers to dictate to him what he puts on the bonus discs? So what if an alternate mix or take is already out on a bootleg? As I have noted before, not everyone has access to the bootlegs or even the knowledge of bootlegs, and certainly no one will have heard these tracks in the quality of audio possible with an official release. If it is a good take or mix, who cares if EVSD or Boogie Mama or Godfatherecords has it out on a bootleg? I still can't believe Jimmy didn't put that killer "Fixing to Die"/"That's Alright Mama" take on the III companion disc!!!! Or "Stairway" with the other two solos he played on IV's companion disc. With a cd having space for 70 plus minutes, there is plenty of room.

Of course, there is always the possibility that Jimmy doesn't have these tapes in his vault...and maybe other alternate studio tracks that have popped up on bootlegs over the years are also not in the hands of Jimmy anymore.

Strider: I've think you've (potentially) hit the nail on the head right there, assuming some old rumours about the bootlegs you mention (at least regarding the "Blues" reel outtake) are true -- namely, that Page likely doesn't have those tapes in his vault, because they were among those stolen from him long ago. Another aspect to the "not having tapes" question: All of the outtakes and alternate mixes we're getting with these remasters were mixed at the time, unlike many other artists' outtake releases -- they haven't been remixed from the multi-tracks, they're digitally transferred and (re)mastered contemporary tapes made for reference or possible release. So, some of the bootlegged tracks that we have might not see release simply because they weren't mixed at the time -- I'll leave that for you all to ponder.

Anyway, it's pretty clear we'll be getting more of the "must have"-type tracks that have, in fact, been bootlegged -- I'm certain we'll get mixes of "Swan Song" and the early version of "In the Light" (a.k.a. "Everybody Makes It Through"), for example. With regards to "Stairway," one example of a legitimate alternate solo has been bootlegged...and it was awful. There is simply no way Page (or anyone else involved with these sets) would have chosen it to be representative of an alternative look at the fourth album -- I have to assume that, if any copies of the other solo survived, it was likewise deemed unworthy of release.

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i've listened to the companions of IV and HOTH, not overwhelmed, i thought we'd be getting rough cuts and demos like the original No Quarter jazz style or Bonzo working through Black dog, bunging Alternate mixes doesn't really create this "portal", those mixes could have been done last week! ;)

how does JP choose which mixes should be included? there must be a few Alternate mixes of all these tracks!

its nice to hear all the instruments without vocals but original ideas would have been great, if they're all over youtube, i'm sure Jimmy could have included these REAL portals and snapshots of a working band doing what they do best

1,2,3 discs were so much better

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I stand by everything I wrote in my post to this thread on 7 August...

I think we have to bear in mind that Jimmy's goals for the re-issue campaign are not necessarily completely aligned with ours (as fans). It's now very clear that he is applying quite a high threshold in terms of 'quality'. He is only using tracks that he considers to be in a 'finished' state, although of course many of them are stripped down versions that lack vocals and/or overdubs. Nevertheless I am deriving a huge amount of enjoyment from listening to this 'new' material. As fans of course we'd love to have 'warts and all' demos and jams etc, but that ain't gonna happen. Those that want that material will have to rely on the bootlegs. At least we can rest assured that Jimmy has done a thorough job of auditing the available studio material before making his selections for the official re-releases.

Yes, I would like to have seen the Bombay 1972 final recordings of Friends and Four Sticks become officially available, but I don't think that's on the cards. In terms of live material I'd also dearly love an official recording of No Quarter from Earls Court 24/05/75 but I think I'm going to be disappointed on that front too. There will be no more live material as part of the current re-release campaign.

On the upside, I can remember a decade ago everyone pretty much agreeing that the 2003 releases of DVD and HTWWW would be the last time Jimmy would revisit the archives. But we then got the revamped soundtrack for TSRTS, and then the O2 reunion gig plus Shepperton rehearsal came out, and now obviously we have the re-issue campaign underway, all of which I consider to be unexpected bonuses. Sometimes maintaining relatively low expectations is the key to achieving happiness.

In terms of the prices being charged for the new boxes, personally I'm sticking with the deluxe CDs. I could afford the SDBS versions, but I have a very mobile lifestyle right now (I'm from the UK but temporarily living in the US) and it's just not practical to ship vinyl around plus I don't have a turntable. Several years ago I converted my Zep archive to lossless digital and that's the way it's going to have to stay. I'm ashamed to admit that this is the first time I am purchasing the individual albums, as I had previously 'reconstructed' the albums in my digital archive using the 1990 four-CD box set and the Box Set 2 that came out in 1993. As the new issues are remastered and expanded with original artwork etc there are no complaints from me about the cost of acquiring the deluxe CDs. I can see the attraction of acquiring the SDBS versions and maybe one day I will, but they're not practical for me to acquire at this point in time.

In summary, I am a very happy Zep fan right now. My glass is definitely half full, not half empty as some may feel after seeing the track listings for the expanded fourth album and HOTH.

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i've listened to the companions of IV and HOTH, not overwhelmed, i thought we'd be getting rough cuts and demos like the original No Quarter jazz style or Bonzo working through Black dog, bunging Alternate mixes doesn't really create this "portal", those mixes could have been done last week! ;)

how does JP choose which mixes should be included? there must be a few Alternate mixes of all these tracks!

its nice to hear all the instruments without vocals but original ideas would have been great, if they're all over youtube, i'm sure Jimmy could have included these REAL portals and snapshots of a working band doing what they do best

1,2,3 discs were so much better

Your own false expectations are to be blamed for any perceived shortcomings in these releases, not anything in them.

It's like what a man once said: "If you listen very hard, the tune will come to you at last." I guess you just have to listen harder than some would like.

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alright man, take it easy ;)

i play and produce so i appreciate the remastered albums

just my opinion that there aren't any rarities on the last two releases

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Your own false expectations are to be blamed for any perceived shortcomings in these releases, not anything in them.

It's like what a man once said: "If you listen very hard, the tune will come to you at last." I guess you just have to listen harder than some would like.

Really! Thats not true and you know it. I have been listening to Led Zeppelin very very hard for over 35 years. In my time, I have spent many thousands of hours in hard core listening to their live performances and rehearsals. So I feel I can offer a valid opinion here.

The extra tracks for IV and HOTH are what I call boring!

If the henrybonzo takes your advice and listens very hard maybe he will end up loving the count in for WTLB so much it will change his mind because there isn't much else that hasn't been heard in these tracks. Yes each person has their own expectations, His weren't met and neither were mine. If you feel yours were, then more power to ya!

Its no big deal to give people a rough mix that sound 99% the original. I truly believe these extra tracks will be forgotten by most people in no time at all .

There truly isnt even anything of interest for the djs to focus on when getting the led out like they could with III.

We should have been given the original run through of No Quarter. A short but fantastic glimpse of they way this band sounded as they were jamming on rough ideas. Its also a very private moment recorded by themselves but, instead we got a half baked No Quarter which is "fun" for the average listener who may play it once or twice and then never look back. I say, give them the rough idea and it will get played over and over because of how great it is. It would also give the Djs who do a Get The Led Out something to focus on .

I can hear the Dj now, Did you hear that count in on WTLB!!! It so much better than the original!

Someone else said, There is so much more to hear. That statement has never been more true than when applied to these extra tracks

311462.jpg

Edited by juxtiphi

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I tend to agree with Jux. The companion discs on IV and HOTH reveal little to us long time Zeppelin listeners.

Whatever is new on the sister tracks is SO minute that they are rendered useless after a couple of listens.

I MO something deeper could have been "unleashed" on this round of companion disks. Sorry just speakin' truth.

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If you have drawn the conclusion that the extra tracks are "boring", then my advice to you would be to exercise your right to not buy them. Simple really, no?

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If you have drawn the conclusion that the extra tracks are "boring", then my advice to you would be to exercise your right to not buy them. Simple really, no?

blimey, all im saying is we got a gig with 1, we got LALA with 2, we got jennings and keys with 3

the last two companions weren't up to that, the expectation was driven by Jimmy and the companion discs of 1,2,3

we've heard the outtakes from the IV and Houses sessions, it would have been fantastic if we had gotten something different, omitting vocals and maybe a solo here or there isn't the same as what was dished out in the previous 3, we got 100% unreleased material

i know the other day i said Zep fans are ungrateful, i'm not being ungrateful, just confused at the lack of gems that could have been included. why those wonderful taped ideas will remain on the youtube and not in our grubby hands with the finished albums is a bit of a shame, thats all

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The companions that omit vocals can become entirely new songs (to me). BOE and GTC come to mind, I especially cannot stop listening to Going to California. It is so beautiful and will stand on it's own as one of my new favorites.

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If you have drawn the conclusion that the extra tracks are "boring", then my advice to you would be to exercise your right to not buy them. Simple really, no?

Considering all the unreleased stuff I have, yes, in comparison the tracks are boring.

I collect booted Zeppelin because I want to listen to them live or otherwise. I buy the officially released stuff because I'm a sucker for a pretty package and I want it in my overall collection.

Think about it, why else would I spend 140 bucks on the ZI set just to hear a show I have had for years? (the quality isn't all that much better) Why would I spend 140 bucks on ZII just to hear La La? Spending 140 for one song is super stupid. ZIII which has the most bang for the buck, is in my case, just like spending 140 bucks for one song because I have all the other stuff except KTTH already.

IMO If you are buying these sets and the biggest selling point is the companion discs then I think people will be disappointed at how much they spent and how little they got in regards to what was included for IV and HOTH. For me buying these is less about the companion discs and more about this probably being the last time we will see the original Led Zeppelin albums being redone at this level of production and quality.

I mean unless in the future they put out a 3D version with graphics and sound that blow anything we have ever seen or heard before I wont be buying any other releases.

Edited by juxtiphi

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Really! Thats not true and you know it. I have been listening to Led Zeppelin very very hard for over 35 years. In my time, I have spent many thousands of hours in hard core listening to their live performances and rehearsals. So I feel I can offer a valid opinion here.

The extra tracks for IV and HOTH are what I call boring!

If the henrybonzo takes your advice and listens very hard maybe he will end up loving the count in for WTLB so much it will change his mind because there isn't much else that hasn't been heard in these tracks. Yes each person has their own expectations, His weren't met and neither were mine. If you feel yours were, then more power to ya!

Its no big deal to give people a rough mix that sound 99% the original. I truly believe these extra tracks will be forgotten by most people in no time at all .

There truly isnt even anything of interest for the djs to focus on when getting the led out like they could with III.

We should have been given the original run through of No Quarter. A short but fantastic glimpse of they way this band sounded as they were jamming on rough ideas. Its also a very private moment recorded by themselves but, instead we got a half baked No Quarter which is "fun" for the average listener who may play it once or twice and then never look back. I say, give them the rough idea and it will get played over and over because of how great it is. It would also give the Djs who do a Get The Led Out something to focus on .

I can hear the Dj now, Did you hear that count in on WTLB!!! It so much better than the original!

Someone else said, There is so much more to hear. That statement has never been more true than when applied to these extra tracks

311462.jpg

I actually have to agree with you here. Everyone has their own idea and plan when creating Deluxe Editions, but if Jimmy did what Black Sabbath did with their DE's, we would be hearing rough demos with guide vocals and alternate solos and instrumentation. Some really interesting stuff. I agree that these will be a one time listen, with a very occasional listen after that. I get that Jimmy created exactly what he wanted to create, but in my estimation of things, he missed the mark on all but LZIII, so far, and could have capitalized on the DE concept much more than he did. Let's hope that it gets better from here. I actually think it will, and I am hopeful that we will see more compilations like we saw with LZIII.

Edited by The Dark Lord

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IMO If you are buying these sets and the biggest selling point is the companion discs then I think people will be disappointed at how much they spent and how little they got in regards to what was included for IV and HOTH. For me buying these is less about the companion discs and more about this probably being the last time we will see the original Led Zeppelin albums being redone at this level of production and quality.

I'm happy to have the companion discs in my collection, but when it comes to reasons for buying the SDBS, they are probably the last thing on the list.

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I do agree that the companions for these 2 are somewhat of a let down after the nuggets on the first 3, especially III. However the SDBS with the HD downloads, the books and the remastered vinyl are more than enough for the $120-ish price tags IMO (although a BD-A or DVD-A of the HD tracks instead of a download or in addition to a DL would have been spot on). Besides they look so amazing together on a shelf!

I just wish JP would have been less concerned about not issuing stuff already out on bootlegs, there are some real gems that deserve an official release....

I fear PG will have 1 single companion disc of more instrumentals or alt mixes of the songs we already know. Not ungrateful I am blown away by the sound quality, look, smell and feel of these sets just sad for what could have been for the bonus stuff.....

I also suspect in the future they will re-release it all in 5.1 or some type of physical HD release. I hope next up is new live stuff and a Blu ray remaster of "DVD" hopefully with new bonus stuff....

My only other letdown would be the "matte" finish to the LP jackets not as sharp looking as the originals.....

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Although I agree with all the comments on the basic boredom- IMO- of the companion discs the statement "to not buy them if u don't want them" is relevant rather than complaining endlessly. I am buying the singles just because there is some clarity there especially on the first 3 that is an improvement however slight, but it is worth saving "peanuts" to me to skip the extra couple bux for double cd's i had the first 3 and really listened once to them(companion discs) and got nothing from the experience ...Glad for those who do. On another topic though the QC from Atlantic should have been better if people are getting distorted vinyl...that is unacceptable for those that still have turntables and wanted them so badly. Not Jimmy's fault but a problem for some people nonetheless. I don't believe the dvd set will be done for blu ray. The footage really would not benefit from it although complete concerts on disc 2 would b nice.

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How can we not want somethin we all want? We don't know what sounds are being delivered so we all go in blind, it's only the last two discs that were a bit of a let down, we have them now and its not like we are going to return them, the disappointment doesn't run that deep ;)

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Responding to pimmyjage(4145)

I have the super deluxe IV

I have the exactly the same defect, skips on black dog and mmh with the enscription "p. usa"

I started a post elsewhere but to reiterate: if you look at a reflection in the vinyl while it is spinning, there is a focus of distortion in the outer record contour as well

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When are Presence and ITTOD going to be released? Can't wait to see the colour of the box for Presence. PG will be green, ITTOD red, what will Presence be?

Edited by mrledhed

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I tend to agree with Jux. The companion discs on IV and HOTH reveal little to us long time Zeppelin listeners.

Whatever is new on the sister tracks is SO minute that they are rendered useless after a couple of listens.

I MO something deeper could have been "unleashed" on this round of companion disks. Sorry just speakin' truth.

I agree. These two discs have been a letdown.

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When are Presence and ITTOD going to be released? Can't wait to see the colour of the box for Presence. PG will be green, ITTOD red, what will Presence be?

I think most people here are expecting PG by itself in February. I would tend to think Presence in April and ITTOD and Coda in June. We shall see.

Green and Red? You seem to say that with certainty. Not sure if the PG brownstone would look good on green. How about a nice, rich, charcoal gray?

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