New box sets including unreleased material

[ledzepfilm]

Knowing what Page probably wants, I doubt he would release it because there's no multitrack to manipulate.

However, one can still hope.

[Geezer]

Why shouldn't he release the show? It was fairly a good performance.

[TheStairwayRemainsTheSame]

There just has to be some unheard of multi-tracks from the tour, they spent a lot of money on the 77' production and it is strange that they wouldn't multi-track

[ledzepfilm]

Geezer, name one release (Besides Celebration Day) by Zeppelin that almost hasn't been edited in some way. Just because it was a good performance for 1977, doesn't mean that Jimmy or Kevin "The Ruiner of Zep Releases" Shirley will find something he doesn't like and will edit it.

[Geezer]

Kevin Shirley is a fucking joke. He ruined HTWWW, DVD and TSRTS.

[Nutrocker]

The only thing that's been released officially from 1977 was TSRTS from Millard's 6/21/1977 tape. There could be potential he could release that, no? However that wouldn't be so new.

It wouldn't be new, no, but if they did it right an official release of Listen To This Eddie would be mighty fine...I'm guessing Page possesses the entire show.

Pontiac has a better shot I think. I'm assuming that Page has both the video and the soundboard of this show.

Not trying to be a smart aleck or anything, Geez, but on what do you base that assumption? Bear in mind no pro shot '77 video was used on the 2003 DVD- logic would dictate that if Page had the Pontiac '77 video it would have been used, instead the only '77 footage was fan shot stuff.

[Geezer]

The DVD was an entirely different project. Some things to bear in mind:

1. It was released 10 years ago. I'm assuming that Page has acquired/found more Zeppelin material since then.

2. Kevin Shirley won't be involved in this release. No more rampant overdubbing.

3. It's been said that Page is going to release unreleased material, meaning that anything from 1977 would almost unquestionably mean Pontiac.

Also, let's not forget about the proshot 4 May 1973 show. If Page owns the video (and audio), I'd say this is a guaranteed release.

[ledzepfilm]

My responses:

1) Seems feasible, but I wouldn't say that he found much.

2) Yes, but even Celebration Day and the original TSRTS were edited. I'd say that the editing (if any) would be better, but still.

3) How would you know for sure that Page has Pontiac? He hasn't released it on the DVD or even on the promos released in the 90's.

And also, how would you know that also? Page has never confirmed that he has these two shows. He said that video wise, there's nothing else in the vault. But again, that could be false.

[Melcórë]

The DVD was an entirely different project. Some things to bear in mind:

1. It was released 10 years ago. I'm assuming that Page has acquired/found more Zeppelin material since then.

2. Kevin Shirley won't be involved in this release. No more rampant overdubbing.

3. It's been said that Page is going to release unreleased material, meaning that anything from 1977 would almost unquestionably mean Pontiac.

Also, let's not forget about the proshot 4 May 1973 show. If Page owns the video (and audio), I'd say this is a guaranteed release.

1. Possibly. Hopefully!

2. I'm pretty sure this has been confirmed.

3. Erm...or Seattle, which we know they have.

...Pro-shot 1973.05.04? Huh?

Also: Shirley did not ruin the Zeppelin releases...How the West Was Won is still the best live-album ever, whatever it's faults, and DVD is perfect.

[ledzepfilm]

The only thing he really ruined was TSRTS. Wasn't the greatest thing they released with Kevin Shirley.

As for 5/4/1973:

They a video screen set up:

And they positioned a camera behind the stage:

[Melcórë]

Hmm. Any evidence whatsoever it was used?

[ledzepfilm]

I don't believe so. Would be nice, though.

[wilsoncb420]

yo, my thing is this: Page knows he needs to represent the 1977 tour. Because he probably has no multitracks, only SBDs and Monitor Mixes, he may be willing to release an "LA '77 Live" set simply because it is so different than anything heard officially before. Since the '77 boards are so similar in sound, he really could mix the LA run shows with each other. Even with splices to another show MID-SONG! I've done this with landover run with success. It weeds out the mistake-ridden sections easily, leaving the final product a "best of the 77 LA run".

on a side note, I wonder if the 77 sbds are stereo? meaning that the bass is actually in the left with keys, and guitars/drums in right? and the ESVD boards are mono with panning-on-the-fly? Like the Hampton 71 show, where the instruments are separated. what about the 75 boards? 73? And monitor mixes? Obviously monitor mixes add slight editing potential.

They would sell. Those shows aren't perfect but what band releases perfect shows ONLY besides Zep? People actually kind of like a few bum-notes occasionally. And 95% don't EVER notice most mistakes anyways if the sound quality is decent.

FACT

[wilsoncb420]

for the record i would rather have everything released to me warts and all. but, I realize that it is a win-win, for me, you, bootleggers, casual fans, AND newbies, if a "close to perfect" release is compiled by editing out mistakes. Meaning, more people agree Zep is the best band to walk the earth, meaning more effort in producing more quality products like HTWWW and DVD (DISC ONE ONLY). I guess i am a strong believer that if zeppelin gets 2X the attention as an amazing live band to the public, good things will happen more for all of us.

bootleggers may even release more, too, due to more people buying new soundboards. a necessary evil, but at least I got to hear Landover, MAY 30TH, 1977 on sbd!!!

edit: the FIRST QUALITY 77 SHOW RELEASED ON SBD

[Geezer]

The only thing he really ruined was TSRTS. Wasn't the greatest thing they released with Kevin Shirley.

Should I make a list of the unnecessary overdubs Shirley did on the DVD?

[Geezer]

yo, my thing is this: Page knows he needs to represent the 1977 tour.

That's true, and the best way to do it is to release the Pontiac concert (of course assuming that he owns the tapes).

[Geezer]

3) How would you know for sure that Page has Pontiac? He hasn't released it on the DVD or even on the promos released in the 90's.

1. We know that he has Seattle, but he didn't release it on the DVD.

2. The Seattle footage was scarcely used in the promos. Even if he had owned Pontiac by then, I don't see the reason he should've put it in those useless promos.

[Nutrocker]

yo, my thing is this: Page knows he needs to represent the 1977 tour. Because he probably has no multitracks, only SBDs and Monitor Mixes, he may be willing to release an "LA '77 Live" set simply because it is so different than anything heard officially before. Since the '77 boards are so similar in sound, he really could mix the LA run shows with each other. Even with splices to another show MID-SONG! I've done this with landover run with success. It weeds out the mistake-ridden sections easily, leaving the final product a "best of the 77 LA run".

That, Wilson, is the usual Page/Shirley modus operandi for their projects, Frankensteining, as it's called. If you haven't you need to check out Eddie Edwards' "Garden Tapes" site to see just how much editing and cutting and pasting Page does on the live albums. Guaranteed, if they did an official L.A. '77 release it'd be all over the place, especially if they had all six nights at their disposal. When I lashed together my homemade When The West Was Won II album I may have used different nights but not editing mid song. Personally when it comes to official live albums I find Frankensteining almost as bad as actually doing overdubs on the thing, it dilutes it, for wont of a better term.

I can't imagine what assembling yer Landover project must have been like, I certainly don't have the fucking patience to do that kind of intricate work (I find patching sources enough of a chore!)

but at least I got to hear Landover, MAY 30TH, 1977 on sbd!!!

Meh...as usual I still prefer the audience tape, distorted "The Song Remains The Same" and all

[ledzepfilm]

Should I make a list of the unnecessary overdubs Shirley did on the DVD?

Too many to count. But sure, if you dare.

1. We know that he has Seattle, but he didn't release it on the DVD.

2. The Seattle footage was scarcely used in the promos. Even if he had owned Pontiac by then, I don't see the reason he should've put it in those useless promos.

Seattle dominates in the OTHAFA promo. If he used Seattle, Knebworth, and Earls Court, why wouldn't he have used Pontiac?

[wilsoncb420]

Honestly, from what I can tell from the audience recording, Pontiac on a dry SBD might turn out to be no better than the last Landover show. Whats with the intro to SIBLY? No doubt it is a very good performance, but I would guess it is not one of their best shows of their career. From what I can also tell, the LA shows, with some of the MSG shows, are some of the best from the tour by far, and their career.

just going by listening. i'm trying to listen carefully. It almost sounds a little held back at times. Probably because of the crowd size and cameras. It turns out to be a good thing.

[Geezer]

Seattle dominates in the OTHAFA promo. If he used Seattle, Knebworth, and Earls Court, why wouldn't he have used Pontiac?

Why would he use two different 1977 shows for the same promo? It's a fucking promo after all.

Too many to count. But sure, if you dare.

That's exactly what I'm trying to say. Thanks to Kevin Shirley, the DVD is flooded with unnecessary cuts.

Also, I hope these box sets won't feature ONLY unreleased live material. What about unreleased songs?

[wilsoncb420]

That, Wilson, is the usual Page/Shirley modus operandi for their projects, Frankensteining, as it's called. If you haven't you need to check out Eddie Edwards' "Garden Tapes" site to see just how much editing and cutting and pasting Page does on the live albums. Guaranteed, if they did an official L.A. '77 release it'd be all over the place, especially if they had all six nights at their disposal. When I lashed together my homemade When The West Was Won II album I may have used different nights but not editing mid song. Personally when it comes to official live albums I find Frankensteining almost as bad as actually doing overdubs on the thing, it dilutes it, for wont of a better term.

I can't imagine what assembling yer Landover project must have been like, I certainly don't have the fucking patience to do that kind of intricate work (I find patching sources enough of a chore!)

Meh...as usual I still prefer the audience tape, distorted "The Song Remains The Same" and all

not big on frankensteining myself. but, it can produces a more commercially impressive product. you lose the tight but loose part of the band sometimes. I hate the cuts in TSRTS, especially the new one. HTWWW, not that bad, but I still want the first show unaltered. I actually prefer a LOT less reverb for a release, too.

for Landover, I just got tired of people asking me if the band was stoned out of their mind when I'd play them one of the best tunes from the 30th, so I did a little work.

[ledzepfilm]

Why would he use two different 1977 shows for the same promo? It's a fucking promo after all.That's exactly what I'm trying to say. Thanks to Kevin Shitley, the DVD is flooded with unnecessary cuts.

I didn't say that Pontiac would be used with Seattle. If he did have Pontiac, why wouldn't he have used it? Is it just a coincidence that every proshot film circulating is featured on those promos?

Yeah, and don't forget Dick Carruthers. He did pretty well on Albert Hall but the way he synced the Garden songs up is very unprofessional.

[Geezer]

There's no Earls Court, MSG or RAH footage in that promo.

[Glyn]

There's no Earls Court, MSG or RAH footage in that promo.

That all appears in the 1997 Whole Lotta Love Promo (along with just about every other piece of footage).

Edit: Grammar