Amstel Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I think it's more than obvious that they always played better early on during any tour. No way! The North American tour of 75' had Led Zeppelin playing their best from about mid tour through the final three nights at the L.A. Forum. Those shows they did in Vancouver, Seattle, Long Beach, San Diego, and L.A. were the finest moments of that tour. Although I really like the shows from Baton Rouge, Dallas, New York (both The Garden and Nassau shows), and St. Louis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melcórë Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Man, I'm enjoying this conversation, yet it's completely off topic of what the subject is. It's partially the band's fault also. If they planned the project earlier in the tour, the filming process would of been much better. It seems to have been largely Page and Grant's project -- they expected Massot to be able to film at least one concert, but they all attest that he didn't have the proper materials (i.e. enough film). When they brought Clifton in to edit and film pickups at Shepperton, he found that he was ultimately unable to accurately capture the atmosphere of the MSG shows, so he came up with the idea of the "fantasy" scenes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledzepfilm Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 To me, the movie would of been much better without fantasy sequences. The movie felt more like a Hollywood load of bollocks with all of the nonsense inbetween songs, the fantasy sequences, and the preposterous Shepperton clips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 TSRTS was a doomed project from the beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom kid Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 The 1977 tour -- which I do love, btw -- was an "onslaught" of "well, are we gonna' make it through tonight?" You can't compare seventy year-old men to their youthful counterparts -- any attempt will end in failure. But they were consistently good that night in 2007, and were having fun again -- when was the last time that happened, 1975? A listen to a lot of the audience sources, especially from the 6 night run at the forum would beg to differ with your last statement that they weren't having fun on stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillumpuffer Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I agree with Tom there. "We're starting to cook" was a great Plantation from The LA "Eddie" show. Sounds like they were having a great time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenman Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 The 1977 tour -- which I do love, btw -- was an "onslaught" of "well, are we gonna' make it through tonight?" You can't compare seventy year-old men to their youthful counterparts -- any attempt will end in failure. But they were consistently good that night in 2007, and were having fun again -- when was the last time that happened, 1975? I was serious in terms of Pagey's guitar work -- every run-through has an added layer to it...you need to listen carefully, but he hasn't played that well in years. I'll agree to disagree on "Kashmir," though. I'd agree, like the better P&P shows the O2 show was definitely more consistant than even the best 77 shows but I do also have to agree Geezer that it can't beat 77 for shear musical invention. 77 was really the last time we saw the band in full "tight but loose" mode, ok there was more of the loose but the band as a whole including Page were certainly pushing there improvisation much further than they were at the O2 or any P&P show. Impossible to say which is "better", as a concert goer I can see many preffering the modern tighter performances but as a collector of live recordings the 77 shows are more interesting. If Zep had always performed in this tight fashion I'd probabley only have a dozen or so shows rather than 50+ shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Page needs to release as many unreleased studio songs as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Knebs Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 agreed. my thoughts have tended to believe that he tapped the reserves/unreleased well for his post- LZ ventures. Tons of demos and ideas on tape. Many, many concerts to release. I heard years ago that LZ had done covers of other songs that never made it to LP. Don't know what they were, just presumed they were not up to band standards or did not fit the unity of the LP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom kid Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 I agree with Tom there. "We're starting to cook" was a great Plantation from The LA "Eddie" show. Sounds like they were having a great time Just listen to Roberts introduction of 'Over the Top'. I don't know how someone could say they weren't having fun when listening to that. I will agree with Melcore though at shows like Louisville and Tempe they did not seem to be having much fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melcórë Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 A listen to a lot of the audience sources, especially from the 6 night run at the forum would beg to differ with your last statement that they weren't having fun on stage. ...Cherry-picking the best nights of the tour? If that's what you go by, then...yeah, they had fun. (They had less fun on the 1980 European tour, though.) agreed. my thoughts have tended to believe that he tapped the reserves/unreleased well for his post- LZ ventures. Tons of demos and ideas on tape. Many, many concerts to release. I heard years ago that LZ had done covers of other songs that never made it to LP. Don't know what they were, just presumed they were not up to band standards or did not fit the unity of the LP. Rumour and speculation...not borne out by official statements or releases. A ton of the demos and studio tapes (that we know exist) were stolen from Pagey c.1988. Hopefully, he has some of Zep's festival performances from 1969 multi-tracked or soundboarded... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutrocker Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Just listen to Roberts introduction of 'Over the Top'. I don't know how someone could say they weren't having fun when listening to that. I will agree with Melcore though at shows like Louisville and Tempe they did not seem to be having much fun. No question about it, Louisville and Tempe are quintessential "Oh fuck, let's get it over with" performances. Rowdy audiences are not necessarily conducive to a band giving a stellar performance (particularly in Louisville the audience was certainly a distraction) Although it must be said that, in spite of the iffy performance, the Tempe audience didn't give Zeppelin the same rough time that they would give Bob Dylan a couple of years later when he tried to shove a show of his Christian/Gospel music down the ASU's throat ...Cherry-picking the best nights of the tour? If that's what you go by, then...yeah, they had fun. (They had less fun on the 1980 European tour, though.) Oh, I dunno...it sounds like Bonham was having a blast on some of those 1980 dates (particularly at the start of the tour- Bremen and Brussels instantly come to mind.) Plant is actually the only one who comes across like it was a chore doing some of them gigs. Regarding all this talk of the 'tight but loose' nature of the '77 tour, though, yeah, some of those gigs are definitely 'tight but loose' but not in the usual Zeppelin manner- in '77 'tight but loose' basically meant sloppy, not improvising out on a limb. As I've said before I reckon the '77 tour was some of the least spontaneous music the band made on stage- hell, IMO about the closest they get to improvisation is the 'boogie section' following the piano solo in "No Quarter". Shit, even Bonham's drum solo, Page's long solo in "No Quarter" and the Noise Solo -ostensibly the most 'free form' parts of the set- tend to follow the same structure/patterns night after night. Ultimately what I hear in Zeppelin's live performances, starting in about 1973 is ever much more 'professionalism' creeping in, rote arrangements and playing, and way less of the free flowing jamming they did in the early days. The bigger the band got, the safer they played it on stage. And the more effects/gimmickry they'd use... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 How many unreleased songs does Jimmy have in the vaults?What unreleased songs do we know of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledzepfilm Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 The only two I can think of are "St. Tristan's Sword" and "Lost in Space". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStairwayRemainsTheSame Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 I've always heard that there was a demo floating around of the original version of "Shake My Tree", don't think it has vocals on it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 What about Strawberry Jam and Swan Song? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperDave Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Probably a number of covers too. Hopefully, "Train Kept A Rollin'" from the first sessions in 1968 in London. It's been rumored that the recording exists but not confirmed. They did record it, but it's whether it still exists. That would be so cool to have that. Will certainly be interesting to see what alt. versions, out takes and live shows are part of this big project from Jimmy and the boys. We'll see. I'm sure the end result will be worth it! I'll bet there'll be plenty of nitpicking and just tearing these releases apart from the naysayers too. But forget about them! Most of us will be pleased! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 What about Long Tall Sally? Did they record this song in the studio?By the way, I'm talking about songs that were recorded but have not been released officially.By my calculations, Zep has released 83 studio songs officially. Do you guys think they recorded up to 100 songs overall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Knebs Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 I'm talking about songs that were recorded but have not been released officially. if the definition of a "song" is rigid- meaning completely written, recorded, produced, named and put in the can- that's one thing. if the definition of a "song" is anything other than the above, that's completely another. Why? Miles of tape do exist. Pre-demo, demo, roughed out tracks, alternate takes, semi-finished takes and the gamut in between. Uncirculated, un-official tapes of live performances exist, some are of outstanding quality. Some uncirculated tapes exist and are nearly broadcast quality of some of the most bootlegged shows. I have given up trying to reason out why people refuse to make these available. Personally it is enjoyable to hear it all. I find myself hoping against hope that we are surprised at the content when they become available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 I'm talking about stricly songs recorded in the studio that haven't been released officially or as a bootleg.How many officially unreleased songs have been released on bootlegs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledzepfilm Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Let me think: Sugar Mama Swan Song Jennings Farm Blues Fire (Say You're Gonna Leave Me) There are probably more but those are the ones off the top of my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amstel Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 ^ ^ ^ Strawberry Jam??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Did the band record Strawberry Jam in the studio? I've heard a couple of live versions, and I think that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amstel Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Did the band record Strawberry Jam in the studio? I've heard a couple of live versions, and I think that's it. Geezer, as fans, we have no clue what's in the can. I'm sure there's something Page has in the vaults that hasn't seen the light of day, due to the numerous things that were stolen from his home back in the late 80's. If you've heard Strawberry Jam, then you remember when they stopped playing, Plant asked the guy at the mix board - "Are you gonna tape tonight? Leave that at the beginning. Leave that at the beginning of the tape." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 You're referring to this, right? It's a rehearsal in a venue. I'm talking about studio recordings. But I don't think it's excluded that the band recorded Strawberry Jam in the studio too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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