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Barney Hoskyns book


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Several people here have commented on negative content in this book but as with a good documentary film, you capture what real people say. There are plenty of places to find sugar coated, idolizing fan drool if one wants that. But why anyone would only want the sunny side of the street is a mystery to me. Real people, real world = real stories.

Having now read the book...I still think people overexaggerated the negative aspects portrayed in the book, at least to a degree. And, based on what I've read about other bands/musicians from the period, it all seems par for the course. Or maybe I just had enough prior knowledge about the band (and the bad) that it didn't phase me as much as it did others...

I'd also still say that the best parts of the book are those that touch on the music, which is (again) conspicuously absent (at least in terms of specific attention) throughout much of the tale. Certain people you have to take with a grain of salt - poor Lori seems a bit confused at times, and Benji...well, enough has been said about him before, and he isn't even as bad in this book as people claim he's been over the years. For what it's worth, I think Ross Halfin actually came across as less of a prink in the book than he does when you read the blog on his website.

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^^^ I agree with you, Melcore, the negative aspects were very overexaggerated. I thought the book was great. The band and it's associates were portrayed in both good and bad lights at different times by different people. This makes perfect sense, as there are both light and dark sides to everyone, no matter what their social status. Oh, and I completely agree with the comments about Ross Halfin. He's always come across to me as a bit of a jerk.

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^^^^^I'm with both you guys 100%. I was waiting to read that they did some really sinister stuff and it was not there............ok, except for the Lightning Lori realationship. But Lori Maddox's inference that her own mom was getting her all dolled up to meet the fellas was really creepy....

P.S.- Hey L/D, I didn;t say his name.....lol....cheers

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I'm ordering his books on the Band and California Music based on how well he crafted the Led Zep book so glad to hear you sing his praises for them. Do those books follow the same format as the LZ book, quotes that tell the story?

No, Across The Great Divide and Hotel California are straight narrative type bios. Admittedly, quite a bit of the focus -especially in the California book- is on the 'dirt'- sex, drugs, all that good shit :lol: Not a lotta discussion of the actual musical accomplishments of the artists involved, but I don't think that was really Barney Hoskyn's point with that one, and it's worth mentioning that although the book is hard to put down -the guy is a good writer- none of the principles (CSNY, The Eagles, Joni Mitchell, Gram Parsons) are portrayed in a particularly good light. ATGD is easily the best bio on The Band I've read (not that there's many :lol: ), it's much better than Levon Helm's book (co-written with Stephen "Hammer Of The Gods" Davis, natch) because there is no bias towards Helm's side of the story or Robbie Robertson's (as there tends to be in discussions of The Band); Hoskyns is pretty objective.

Based on the comments I've read here and elsewhere on the Hoskyn's Zeppelin book, I sorta get the idea that he puts emphasis on the 'dirt' ala Hotel California, but I find it funny to see people getting up in arms over the fact that people like Jimmy Page aren't necessarily presented as 'saints' in the book...they weren't saints. I can't stand these biographies where the people are presented as God, can't do any wrong, etc- it's sycophantic, not objective writing.

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No, Across The Great Divide and Hotel California are straight narrative type bios. Admittedly, quite a bit of the focus -especially in the California book- is on the 'dirt'- sex, drugs, all that good shit :lol: Not a lotta discussion of the actual musical accomplishments of the artists involved, but I don't think that was really Barney Hoskyn's point with that one, and it's worth mentioning that although the book is hard to put down -the guy is a good writer- none of the principles (CSNY, The Eagles, Joni Mitchell, Gram Parsons) are portrayed in a particularly good light. ATGD is easily the best bio on The Band I've read (not that there's many :lol: ), it's much better than Levon Helm's book (co-written with Stephen "Hammer Of The Gods" Davis, natch) because there is no bias towards Helm's side of the story or Robbie Robertson's (as there tends to be in discussions of The Band); Hoskyns is pretty objective.

Based on the comments I've read here and elsewhere on the Hoskyn's Zeppelin book, I sorta get the idea that he puts emphasis on the 'dirt' ala Hotel California, but I find it funny to see people getting up in arms over the fact that people like Jimmy Page aren't necessarily presented as 'saints' in the book...they weren't saints. I can't stand these biographies where the people are presented as God, can't do any wrong, etc- it's sycophantic, not objective writing.

Thanks for that tip - I hate the obvious sycophantic stuff too, it's a waste of time. I didn't see the Hoskyn Led Zep book as biased toward the negative at all. I found it to be a giant conversation with many voices: at times there is commentary on music, other times the industry, other times their personal lives. My personal feeling is if you are doing something you need to hide, you are not doing something you are proud of. That certain people from Page's past make comments about him is because that's their first hand account of being involved with him, good and bad. Emotions run high in business and love-lives and all of us have said/done things that in hindsight we wished we hadn't. To take responsibility for your actions is the mature way to handle it, to avoid and fear discovery strikes me as paranoid. The only thing to be gleaned from any negative or leading remarks in the book about any of the players is a glimpse into the personalities at work behind the scenes as filtered through the commentator's emotional and mental make up.

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Thanks for that tip - I hate the obvious sycophantic stuff too, it's a waste of time. I didn't see the Hoskyn Led Zep book as biased toward the negative at all. I found it to be a giant conversation with many voices: at times there is commentary on music, other times the industry, other times their personal lives. My personal feeling is if you are doing something you need to hide, you are not doing something you are proud of. That certain people from Page's past make comments about him is because that's their first hand account of being involved with him, good and bad. Emotions run high in business and love-lives and all of us have said/done things that in hindsight we wished we hadn't. To take responsibility for your actions is the mature way to handle it, to avoid and fear discovery strikes me as paranoid. The only thing to be gleaned from any negative or leading remarks in the book about any of the players is a glimpse into the personalities at work behind the scenes as filtered through the commentator's emotional and mental make up.

I'm pretty sure anybody who reads the book will be aware that things weren't always sunshine and lollies in the Led Zeppelin story going in...and that will obviously be reflected in the anecdotes. I wouldn't want anybody to gloss over anything, good or bad in a bio (Bart Simpson: "The "Krusty" biography was self serving, and had many glaring omissions!" :lol: ) I read biographies to find out what makes the person tick, and the easiest way to find that out is when they are presented as human beings...we're all human, after all, and nobody's perfect. Shit, if I ever wrote or commissioned my bio, there'd be stuff in there I wouldn't be proud of, but it's an essential part of the story, right? Same with us all...

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I'm pretty sure anybody who reads the book will be aware that things weren't always sunshine and lollies in the Led Zeppelin story going in...and that will obviously be reflected in the anecdotes. I wouldn't want anybody to gloss over anything, good or bad in a bio (Bart Simpson: "The "Krusty" biography was self serving, and had many glaring omissions!" :lol: ) I read biographies to find out what makes the person tick, and the easiest way to find that out is when they are presented as human beings...we're all human, after all, and nobody's perfect. Shit, if I ever wrote or commissioned my bio, there'd be stuff in there I wouldn't be proud of, but it's an essential part of the story, right? Same with us all...

To a degree. Do we have to hear about Pagey's whips, or his spitting - or the outright falsehoods of a few of the players, as has been pointed out in this thread - when we could get more in-depth stories from the likes of Eddie Kramer or Andy Johns, et al.?

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I'm pretty sure anybody who reads the book will be aware that things weren't always sunshine and lollies in the Led Zeppelin story going in...and that will obviously be reflected in the anecdotes. I wouldn't want anybody to gloss over anything, good or bad in a bio (Bart Simpson: "The "Krusty" biography was self serving, and had many glaring omissions!" :lol: ) I read biographies to find out what makes the person tick, and the easiest way to find that out is when they are presented as human beings...we're all human, after all, and nobody's perfect. Shit, if I ever wrote or commissioned my bio, there'd be stuff in there I wouldn't be proud of, but it's an essential part of the story, right? Same with us all...

Yep.

Yes, nothing rings more false than a biog that reads like a sunny day walk through the flower garden. It's a fine line between respecting that everyone has a right to privacy and an artist revealing inner thoughts that shine light on his work. I have Philip Norman's John Lennon biog and Keith Richard's Life up next. I'd be interested in hearing the thoughts of anyone here who has read them.

BTW very jealous you life in the Okanogan. Beautiful place in the world.

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To a degree. Do we have to hear about Pagey's whips, or his spitting - or the outright falsehoods of a few of the players, as has been pointed out in this thread - when we could get more in-depth stories from the likes of Eddie Kramer or Andy Johns, et al.?

And there's the rub...although quite frankly when it comes to guys like Eddie Kramer or Andy Johns, I'd read their own books, never mind mere Zeppelin anecdotes! Yeah, I could do without reading about gratuitous amounts of Page's sex life, but let's face it, all that stuff is as much a part of the 'myth' as Headley Grange.

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To a degree. Do we have to hear about Pagey's whips, or his spitting - or the outright falsehoods of a few of the players, as has been pointed out in this thread - when we could get more in-depth stories from the likes of Eddie Kramer or Andy Johns, et al.?

I guess you have to look at who said what: if it's someone who was on the receiving end of a whip or a spit, then it would be their shared experience, not how a particular track was recorded. You could cut all that out but then you'd have half a story - I should think it was impossible for Hoskyn to eliminate everything that was ever previously known or published.

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Yep.

Yes, nothing rings more false than a biog that reads like a sunny day walk through the flower garden. It's a fine line between respecting that everyone has a right to privacy and an artist revealing inner thoughts that shine light on his work. I have Philip Norman's John Lennon biog and Keith Richard's Life up next. I'd be interested in hearing the thoughts of anyone here who has read them.

I've discussed my views on Lennon and Lennon bios in other discussions here, and Norman's book is one of the better ones, as is Time Riley's Lennon bio that came out a couple years back. They at least portray John as human, and not some sort of sideshow freak ala Albert Goldman's The Lives Of John Lennon, which is best forgotten :lol: Keith Richard's book is a must read. I'd reckon Keith's book and the Shakey bio of Neil Young (by Jimmy McDonough) are the best music bios I've read.

BTW very jealous you life in the Okanogan. Beautiful place in the world.

Born and raised (though I've also lived in Alberta, Ontario and England over the years)...wouldn't wanna live anywhere else. We live in the middle of nowhere, total privacy, self sufficiency, and that's the way it's gotta be- and I say that as a transplanted city boy...

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I see the same line of false logic is still being peddled here. In other words, if you object to the way Hoskyns handled his material, and have serious questions about some of the (ahem) "witnesses" that he relies on heavily...well then obviously you're some kind of fanboy who thinks his idols ride unicorns and shit rainbows. There couldn't be any other explanation...right?

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I should think it was impossible for Hoskyn to eliminate everything that was ever previously known or published.

Not that there's a plethora of books/biographies about Led Zeppelin, unlike, say, The Beatles or Bob Dylan. I mean, there seemed to be huge swathes of Mick Wall's book that seemed to be lifted straight outta Hammer Of The Gods, and the old Ritchie Yorke bio was pretty sanitized. Richard Cole's book isn't worth mentioning IMO. I'm still impatiently waiting for my copy of Hoskyn's book to arrive out here in the sticks, but considering he talked to many sources hitherto unmentioned, that's pretty damned close to 'definitive' type biography material as far I'm concerned.

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I see the same line of false logic is still being peddled here. In other words, if you object to the way Hoskyns handled his material, and have serious questions about some of the (ahem) "witnesses" that he relies on heavily...well then obviously you're some kind of fanboy who thinks his idols ride unicorns and shit rainbows. There couldn't be any other explanation...right?

I'm pretty sure even the fanboys know deep down their heroes don't ride unicorns or shit rainbows, they're just in denial about it :lol:

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And there's the rub...although quite frankly when it comes to guys like Eddie Kramer or Andy Johns, I'd read their own books, never mind mere Zeppelin anecdotes! Yeah, I could do without reading about gratuitous amounts of Page's sex life, but let's face it, all that stuff is as much a part of the 'myth' as Headley Grange.

They'd have quite the interesting memoirs, to be sure - especially Andy...never knew much about him before this book.

I guess you have to look at who said what: if it's someone who was on the receiving end of a whip or a spit, then it would be their shared experience, not how a particular track was recorded. You could cut all that out but then you'd have half a story - I should think it was impossible for Hoskyn to eliminate everything that was ever previously known or published.

I just have a different angle, I guess - I'm quite hopeful that we'll see a more in-depth elucidation of the tracks/recording process/etc. when the remasters are released.

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On the topic of other rock bios/autobios, I would highly recommend the one by Police guitarist Andy Summers - "One Train Later." It is often poignant, and very funny. It takes maybe a chapter to get it's speed going, but after that, it's one of the really good ones...great ones, I think.

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They'd have quite the interesting memoirs, to be sure - especially Andy...never knew much about him before this book.

Actually Eddie Kramer has written a book or two; I read one about his adventures with Jimi Hendrix years ago. I'm sure Andy Johns could tell some great stories- after all, he engineered Exile On Main Street...

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Actually Eddie Kramer has written a book or two; I read one about his adventures with Jimi Hendrix years ago. I'm sure Andy Johns could tell some great stories- after all, he engineered Exile On Main Street...

D'you mean Setting the Record Straight? He co-wrote that with John McDermott, the administrator/producer of the Hendrix releases - it is indeed a good book, as is their latter book Ultimate Hendrix, a work along the same lines as Mark Lewisohn's The Beatles Recording Sessions...which is what I really want in a Zeppelin book, I suppose.

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Thanks! Adding Shakey and the Andy Summers to my book list. That's good news to hear about the Lennon and Richards books, Nutrocker. I have the Beatles Recording Sessions book from ages ago, it's been "acquired" by one of my sons along with most of my vinyl collection.

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I've discussed my views on Lennon and Lennon bios in other discussions here, and Norman's book is one of the better ones, as is Time Riley's Lennon bio that came out a couple years back. They at least portray John as human, and not some sort of sideshow freak ala Albert Goldman's The Lives Of John Lennon, which is best forgotten :lol: Keith Richard's book is a must read. I'd reckon Keith's book and the Shakey bio of Neil Young (by Jimmy McDonough) are the best music bios I've read.

Born and raised (though I've also lived in Alberta, Ontario and England over the years)...wouldn't wanna live anywhere else. We live in the middle of nowhere, total privacy, self sufficiency, and that's the way it's gotta be- and I say that as a transplanted city boy...

From my time living in B.C. and knowing people there, the number one interest for B.C. men is living miles from anyone else in the wilderness. It's beautiful and I love that about BC/Canada, but I'm no wilderness girl. Any hint there might be a bear in the area and I'm in the car. Plus there is no sushi delivery.

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D'you mean Setting the Record Straight? He co-wrote that with John McDermott, the administrator/producer of the Hendrix releases - it is indeed a good book, as is their latter book Ultimate Hendrix, a work along the same lines as Mark Lewisohn's The Beatles Recording Sessions...which is what I really want in a Zeppelin book, I suppose.

Yeah, Setting The Record Straight, that's the one, thanks. As for a Beatles Recording Sessions type Zeppelin book, yeah, that'd be a good 'un. I suppose Dave Lewis would be Led Zeppelin's version of Mark Lewisohn, maybe he should have a go at it.

From my time living in B.C. and knowing people there, the number one interest for B.C. men is living miles from anyone else in the wilderness. It's beautiful and I love that about BC/Canada, but I'm no wilderness girl. Any hint there might be a bear in the area and I'm in the car. Plus there is no sushi delivery.

Yep, there's bears out where I live, and we have no delivery at all, sushi or anything else :lol:

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Yeah, Setting The Record Straight, that's the one, thanks. As for a Beatles Recording Sessions type Zeppelin book, yeah, that'd be a good 'un. I suppose Dave Lewis would be Led Zeppelin's version of Mark Lewisohn, maybe he should have a go at it.

I've been meaning to get my hands on Lewis' book for a while - Lewisohn's book all but changed my worldview, with how thorough and complete it was. :P

As for Eddie: I think Hoskyn's book sort of portrays him as a contrarian type...and maybe more like he actually is.

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I've been meaning to get my hands on Lewis' book for a while - Lewisohn's book all but changed my worldview, with how thorough and complete it was. :P

I refer to Lewisohn's Beatles Complete Recording Sessions as "The Bible" :lol: Dave Lewis's Concert Files comes close, he should do The Studio Files, it'd be a smash.

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