Barney Hoskyns book

[Disco Duck]

oh wow,the library had it,awesome

They didn't have a copy so I requested one via inter-library loan. Until my financial situation improves, buying books is out of the question. So I guess, at least one public library in my region owns a copy. Or leased it via the McNaughton Books plan.

[tom kid]

Just ordered a copy of this off depository.com, $26 NZ dollars with free shipping for the hardback version. Pretty good deal if you ask me, I had to order it after reading this thread.

[Daniel]

Sorry to sound like a sales person here but Amazon indicates that they have only one copy left and the description says first edition. I wonder if there is a way to tell if it's the first printing of the first edition? I've already been gifted a copy but maybe someone here is interested? It would only be fitting that it go to someone on this board.

http://www.amazon.com/Led-Zeppelin-History-Worlds-Greatest/dp/0470894326/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1368894070&sr=8-1&keywords=Barney+Hoskyns

P.S. I will update this post when the last copy is sold so that people don't waste their time going to the Amazon link...

I should probably sleep more! That 'last' first edition on Amazon sold but who the hell knows who's got the last 1st edition? Back to bed now.

[clw]

You were very lucky!!!

They didn't have a copy so I requested one via inter-library loan. Until my financial situation improves, buying books is out of the question. So I guess, at least one public library in my region owns a copy. Or leased it via the McNaughton Books plan.

They didn't have a copy so I requested one via inter-library loan. Until my financial situation improves, buying books is out of the question. So I guess, at least one public library in my region owns a copy. Or leased it via the McNaughton Books plan.

[LedZebedee]

My copy arrived this morning - bought off ebay for £5! Can't wait to get stuck into it!

[Melcórë]

I haven't read the Hoskyns book and have no interest. However, I have a few thoughts about some of the topics here:

1. I've had many soft tissue injuries and they are somewhat mysterious. I had a 10 year tendonitis in my right elbow that mysteriously disappeared last year.

2. Alcohol is much worse for you than heroin. Alcohol kills brain cells. Heroin is considered more dangerous because people develop tolerance more quickly, can overdose more easily, and now we know can get HIV and Hep B from needles...however, without those issues alcohol could be considered the worse drug.

Very strange stance.

Alcohol and heroin (along with some Charlie?) appear to have been Jimmy's drugs-of-choice in the late period -- their combination is as likely a culprit as any for his decline, although I'd argue the heroin would have been enough.

The degree to which drugs are "worse" than one another is (unsurprisingly) a highly contentious issue.

I get the impression that Cole is back in Jimmy's good graces so he is being rather vague on specifics lately I.e. the questions he has been answering through Facebook.

...Well, he doesn't seem to have as much of an axe to grind in the Hoskyns book as he did years ago. Read into that what you will.

[SteveAJones]

Very strange stance.

Alcohol and heroin (along with some Charlie?) appear to have been Jimmy's drugs-of-choice in the late period -- their combination is as likely a culprit as any for his decline, although I'd argue the heroin would have been enough.

The degree to which drugs are "worse" than one another is (unsurprisingly) a highly contentious issue.

...Well, he doesn't seem to have as much of an axe to grind in the Hoskyns book as he did years ago. Read into that what you will.

I don't think Richard ever had a falling out with Jimmy. In fact, it was Richard whom Jimmy hung out with in Los Angeles on the ARMS tour in December '83.

I don't think Richard ever had an axe to grind, I think Stephen Davis took advantage of him when he was down on his luck.

[Melcórë]

I don't think Richard ever had an axe to grind, I think Stephen Davis took advantage of him when he was down on his luck.

Perhaps -- I've usually seen him portrayed in that light.

[Nutrocker]

I don't think Richard ever had an axe to grind, I think Stephen Davis took advantage of him when he was down on his luck.

I'd tend to agree. Stephen Davis would fuck a pig if it meant selling more copies of his tabloidesque tomes...Davis is only a step or two below Albert Goldman as far as Music/Celebrity biographers go in my not so humble opinion.

[Texas Melanie]

I don't think Richard ever had a falling out with Jimmy. In fact, it was Richard whom Jimmy hung out with in Los Angeles on the ARMS tour in December '83.

I don't think Richard ever had an axe to grind, I think Stephen Davis took advantage of him when he was down on his luck.

I was under the impression that Jimmy had a short falling out with Cole simply because he wrote "Stairway to Heaven" or whatever the title of his book. Jimmy has been known to despise anyone trying to make a buck off of the band, especially those who wrote "tell alls".

[SteveAJones]

I was under the impression that Jimmy had a short falling out with Cole simply because he wrote "Stairway to Heaven" or whatever the title of his book. Jimmy has been known to despise anyone trying to make a buck off of the band, especially those who wrote "tell alls".

Well, Jimmy doesn't like personal things said in confidence to be divulged in print, such as in Mick Wall's 'When Giants Walked The Earth', but even Peter Grant published an autobiography.

[LedZebedee]

I've had this book for less than a day now and i'm already halfway through it - i literally can't put it down!!!

Blows HOTG and Mick Wall's books out of the water and i thought both were excellent. The fact quotes have been taken from right across the zep entourage spectrum is the clincher!

Especially found the pre-zep material facsinating and how the music business worked in those days.

Not come to the "dark stuff" yet as i'm only up to '73 but already Bonham comes across very badly while Jones seems to be universally rated as the real musical genius in the band - recognition at last!

Reckon i will have finished it by tonight - highly recommended!

[Disco Duck]

...Not come to the "dark stuff" yet as i'm only up to '73 but already Bonham comes across very badly while Jones seems to be universally rated as the real musical genius in the band - recognition at last!

Reckon i will have finished it by tonight - highly recommended!

One surprising thing I learned from Hoskyn's book was that Bonham's off-stage behavior was problematic almost from the very beginning. I had assumed it developed more gradually. However, he was already a heavy drinker when he joined Zep and it just got worse. The inappropriate behavior started very early as well. That also got worse as time went by from public displays of nudity to unprovoked assaults. He was an enormously talented but very troubled man.

[LedZebedee]

One surprising thing I learned from Hoskyn's book was that Bonham's off-stage behavior was problematic almost from the very beginning. I had assumed it developed more gradually. However, he was already a heavy drinker when he joined Zep and it just got worse. The inappropriate behavior started very early as well. That also got worse as time went by from public displays of nudity to unprovoked assaults. He was an enormously talented but very troubled man.

That was the biggest shock for me early on in the book, the fact Bonham was behaving badly from practically day one!

page 181 Quote from Andy Johns when Jason asked him to tell him a great story about his dad " You don't want to know" "No tell me a great story" "Your father was a lout and a fuckhead. I told you not to ask"

It gets worse!

[BONZOLED942]

That was the biggest shock for me early on in the book, the fact Bonham was behaving badly from practically day one!

page 181 Quote from Andy Johns when Jason asked him to tell him a great story about his dad " You don't want to know" "No tell me a great story" "Your father was a lout and a fuckhead. I told you not to ask"

It gets worse!

I was dissapointed as well to find out about Johns behavior as well as hard drug use. I knew he was no saint, but its sometimes hard to find out things. They say never meet your heros.

[SteveAJones]

I was dissapointed as well to find out about Johns behavior as well as hard drug use. I knew he was no saint, but its sometimes hard to find out things. They say never meet your heros.

John Bonham's sister Deborah has said his instructors at school were all of the opinion he'd never amount to anything and often said so.

[Nutrocker]

John Bonham's sister Deborah has said his instructors at school were all of the opinion he'd never amount to anything and often said so.

I bet his instructors felt pretty dumb after about 1969 or so...

"...The man who said he could go back to a building site at any time...and we all agreed."

"The man who many said, "Never 'eard of 'im...", John Bonham, Over The Top!"

[Knebby]

I was dissapointed as well to find out about Johns behavior as well as hard drug use. I knew he was no saint, but its sometimes hard to find out things. They say never meet your heros.

I only met him once, in 1980, and I'm as aware as you are of his reputation, but he was absolutely 100% charming. He WAAAAAAAY exceeded my expectations. Just a really lovely, down to earth man, and very patient with fans .

[LedZebedee]

For me Bonham will always be the best rock drummer ever, but no one has anything good to say about him (when on tour) in this book. I know you don't have to like your heroes on a personal level to enjoy the music, but after reading the book i'm sorry he's just vile! I thought there might be some exaggeration by bitter ex-employes with an axe to grind, but when a respected journalist like Howard Mylett witnesses him smashing up a dressing room by himself then you know there is some truth in it. The episode where Bonham was being driven down to London by Matthew Stanislowski and he just shouts at him to stop the car and then beats the shit out of him for no reason is particularly disturbing - and that was recounted by Tony Iommi!!!

I expected Page to get a good roasting and he comes across as spoilt paranoid brat so no surprises there, but what is intriguing is Plant gets off almost completely blemish-free! Jones is anonymous as usual but when he says something it really counts. Peter Grant's bark was apparently worse than his bite which was a surprise and Richard Cole does'nt really add much to what he has already divulged.

When the end comes it's as bad as it gets and is quite depressing really knowing it was all self-inflicted, but fascinating nevertheless.

Definitely the best book i have ever read on Zep - might have to read it all again!

[Melcórë]

Just a really lovely, down to earth man, and very patient with fans .

I'd say that it becomes apparent while reading the book that Bonham never really enjoyed the "scene" aspect -- he was rude to the groupies, referring to them as "old slags"...he forged genuine relationships with people who weren't out to cash in on the fame. Unfortunately, his alcoholism brought the worst out in him, and he appears to have been a very conflicted and depressed person.

[LedZebedee]

I know hindsight is a wonderful thing but i don't understand why someone did'nt just say "enough"!!! I mean after Oakland and the way the 77 tour ended surely it was a golden opportunity to reign things in.

Jones said it best "We were not in good shape mentally or health-wise. Prehaps no one was strong enough to stop it - including our manager, who was'nt that well himself" page 408

[Melcórë]

I know hindsight is a wonderful thing but i don't understand why someone did'nt just say "enough"!!! I mean after Oakland and the way the 77 tour ended surely it was a golden opportunity to reign things in.

Jones said it best "We were not in good shape mentally or health-wise. Prehaps no one was strong enough to stop it - including our manager, who was'nt that well himself" page 408

It's the same reason why any number of drug-related issues exist -- the people themselves, and those around them, would prefer to pretend that there are no such issues, or ignore them.

I'm still optimistic about what Zeppelin's future might have been.

[ScarletMacaw]

I'd say that it becomes apparent while reading the book that Bonham never really enjoyed the "scene" aspect -- he was rude to the groupies, referring to them as "old slags"...he forged genuine relationships with people who weren't out to cash in on the fame. Unfortunately, his alcoholism brought the worst out in him, and he appears to have been a very conflicted and depressed person.

In every still photo and every video clip of Bonham that I have seen in which he isn't playing the drums, he looks depressed.

I've had patients who had rage attacks only when drunk. It can be the disinhibitory effect, but in some people there may be an actual dissociation...in those cases, there is an underlying disorder such as PTSD, borderline personality disorder or even dissociative identity disorder (multiple personalities). It's so sad that he apparently never received any treatment.

[JTM]

Not to mention Bonzos' fantasy sequence in TSRTS.

In every still photo and every video clip of Bonham that I have seen in which he isn't playing the drums, he looks depressed.

I've had patients who had rage attacks only when drunk. It can be the disinhibitory effect, but in some people there may be an actual dissociation...in those cases, there is an underlying disorder such as PTSD, borderline personality disorder or even dissociative identity disorder (multiple personalities). It's so sad that he apparently never received any treatment.

[chef free]

I know hindsight is a wonderful thing but i don't understand why someone did'nt just say "enough"!!! I mean after Oakland and the way the 77 tour ended surely it was a golden opportunity to reign things in.

Jones said it best "We were not in good shape mentally or health-wise. Prehaps no one was strong enough to stop it - including our manager, who was'nt that well himself" page 408

It's the same reason why any number of drug-related issues exist -- the people themselves, and those around them, would prefer to pretend that there are no such issues, or ignore them.

I'm still optimistic about what Zeppelin's future might have been.

That's it alright! Look what happened to Jimi, they just toured him to death for the $. Same thing for Garcia, he wanted to quit but so many people were depending on the Grateful Dead to make a living. No one wants to be the one to pull the brake lever on the gravy train!