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Barney Hoskyns book

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Exactly who would have helped him?

His bandmates...his family - parents, he was still with Charlotte..IDK? Anyway, it's water under the bridge now, I suppose, and he looks fantastic and got through it. Another comment (maybe in the book too) made on here, which bothered me a bit, was how 'controlling' Jimmy was. Hum, ever watch an interview given with Jimmy and Robert, i've never seen someone so uncontrolling and passive. He let Robert steer all interviews,press stuff, etc..and Jimmy just sat back and rarely spoke. So, controlling, IDK..who cares. Controlling of his music...probably, it was his frickin band, his genius, his vision. He was the creator, engineer, composer and leader with contributions from all the members. Without Jimmy Page there would have been NO Zeppelin!

Edited by Katie4pagey

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His bandmates...his family - parents, he was still with Charlotte..IDK? Anyway, it's water under the bridge now, I suppose, and he looks fantastic and got through it. Another comment (maybe in the book too) made on here, which bothered me a bit, was how 'controlling' Jimmy was. Hum, ever watch an interview given with Jimmy and Robert, i've never seen someone so uncontrolling and passive. He let Robert steer all interviews,press stuff, etc..and Jimmy just sat back and rarely spoke. So, controlling, IDK..who cares. Controlling of his music...probably, it was his frickin band, his genus, his vision. He was the creator, engineer, composer and leader with contributions from all the members. Without Jimmy Page there would have been NO Zeppelin!

Jimmy diverted most of the press conference dialogue to Robert because Robert has a natural knack for speaking with them. His personality fits the role perfectly. It has been cited numerous times how Jimmy always looks twitchy and nervous during interviews. It's probably because he doesn't particularly like doing them.

That being said, I think all three surviving members showed incredible poise during all the press junkets last fall for the 02 Premiere and the Kennedy Center Award. Each had their moments that showed humor, fondness and respect for their legacy. At this point, what more can any Led Zeppelin fan ask for?

Edited by zeppy668

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Well, I'm nearly done with this book. I think it's horrible. Just snippets of stupid, mean spirited comments..and for what? There was no new information in there (I've seen every single photo in there already off the stupid internet). Quotes that seem ridiculous; like Lori Maddox remembering what Jimmy said about the band or album, etc...when she was like a teenager, give me a frickin' break. just a way to bash the band and bandmates. I think this is terrible book. Shame on this author. There's no relationship in life that doesn't come with issues, dysfunction, highs - lows (it's just life) and for this Hoskyns dude to write a book like this...what's the point? None of us are impervious to f@ck ups. That Benji LeFevre should just STFU already and sit down. Good grief, there's not a band around, especially someone as big as Zep, who didn't experience ebbs and flows, dark and shade, good and bad. I frickin despise this book, with a passion!

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Well, I'm nearly done with this book. I think it's horrible. Just snippets of stupid, mean spirited comments..and for what? There was no new information in there (I've seen every single photo in there already off the stupid internet). Quotes that seem ridiculous; like Lori Maddox remembering what Jimmy said about the band or album, etc...when she was like a teenager, give me a frickin' break. just a way to bash the band and bandmates. I think this is terrible book. Shame on this author. There's no relationship in life that doesn't come with issues, dysfunction, highs - lows (it's just life) and for this Hoskyns dude to write a book like this...what's the point? None of us are impervious to f@ck ups. That Benji LeFevre should just STFU already and sit down. Good grief, there's not a band around, especially someone as big as Zep, who didn't experience ebbs and flows, dark and shade, good and bad. I frickin despise this book, with a passion!

If you want a whitewashed history of the band...erm, look elsewhere? Not sure where. You take in what you take in...but the book is nowhere near as negative as you're making it out to be. The quotes are intentionally left to speak on their own -- you should consider the possible reasons why certain people come across as more negative than others.

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Well, I'm nearly done with this book. I think it's horrible. Just snippets of stupid, mean spirited comments..and for what? There was no new information in there (I've seen every single photo in there already off the stupid internet). Quotes that seem ridiculous; like Lori Maddox remembering what Jimmy said about the band or album, etc...when she was like a teenager, give me a frickin' break. just a way to bash the band and bandmates. I think this is terrible book. Shame on this author. There's no relationship in life that doesn't come with issues, dysfunction, highs - lows (it's just life) and for this Hoskyns dude to write a book like this...what's the point? None of us are impervious to f@ck ups. That Benji LeFevre should just STFU already and sit down. Good grief, there's not a band around, especially someone as big as Zep, who didn't experience ebbs and flows, dark and shade, good and bad. I frickin despise this book, with a passion!

IMO, the popular music industry attracts and breeds dysfunction. Maybe it's the stress; the knowledge that you're only as good as your last album or tour. There is the pressure to keep producing quality music. Toss in freely available recreational drugs and alcohol and you have a recipe for disaster. Back in the day, rock fans chuckled at Keith Richards' druggie exploits. However, his band mates and others in the Rolling Stones' entourage may not have found Richard's drug use so amusing, Unlike the fans, they had to work with him.

While reading Hoskyn's book, I kept reminding myself that the people he interviewed had to work with Zep and their management. I didn't. Frankly, I wouldn't have stuck around as long as Janine Safer or Mick Hinton had I been in their shoes. So yes, there are a lot of negative comments directed at the band in general and Page, Bonham and Grant in particular. However, the complainers may have some legitimate beefs with Page and company.

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If you want a whitewashed history of the band...erm, look elsewhere? Not sure where. You take in what you take in...but the book is nowhere near as negative as you're making it out to be. The quotes are intentionally left to speak on their own -- you should consider the possible reasons why certain people come across as more negative than others.

THIS

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Well, I'm nearly done with this book. I think it's horrible. Just snippets of stupid, mean spirited comments..and for what? There was no new information in there (I've seen every single photo in there already off the stupid internet). Quotes that seem ridiculous; like Lori Maddox remembering what Jimmy said about the band or album, etc...when she was like a teenager, give me a frickin' break. just a way to bash the band and bandmates. I think this is terrible book. Shame on this author. There's no relationship in life that doesn't come with issues, dysfunction, highs - lows (it's just life) and for this Hoskyns dude to write a book like this...what's the point? None of us are impervious to f@ck ups. That Benji LeFevre should just STFU already and sit down. Good grief, there's not a band around, especially someone as big as Zep, who didn't experience ebbs and flows, dark and shade, good and bad. I frickin despise this book, with a passion!

"Gods sit on pedestals, men walk in the dirt"

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Why do some people demand that the band behave as saints and be regarded as such? I'm sure every reader has some skeletons in the closet, myself included. For the most part the band looks to have had a damn good time.

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If you want a whitewashed history of the band...erm, look elsewhere? Not sure where. You take in what you take in...but the book is nowhere near as negative as you're making it out to be. The quotes are intentionally left to speak on their own -- you should consider the possible reasons why certain people come across as more negative than others.

Oh please. The quotes have both an effect and consequence and they're put in this book for a reason, a purpose. It was simply ridiculous. I'm not looking for a 'whitewashed' version of Zep...there's no whitewashed (or blackwashed for that matter) version of any single person on this planet let alone a band of that size and power. We all have different sides, etc...it was derogatory by nature, and for WHAT reason? Page doesn't owe anyone anything, nor does Plant, Jonesy, etc. If nothing else, Page created the biggest band on the planet, all members being contributors...they should be proud but they're constantly put down. So, if they acted badly (who doesn't)..then those who supposedly need to continually to 'bash them' should have left the band and entourage 'boo hoo hoo' to all those crying about it now. Good grief! Nothing interesting or revealing offered in that book, just a bunch of mashed together quotes some of which sound so ridiculous. That's my opinion anyway.

Edited by Katie4pagey

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Oh please. The quotes have both an effect and consequence and they're put in this book for a reason, a purpose. It was simply ridiculous. I'm not looking for a 'whitewashed' version of Zep...there's no whitewashed (or blackwashed for that matter) version of any single person on this planet let alone a band of that size and power. We all have different sides, etc...it was derogatory by nature, and for WHAT reason? Page doesn't owe anyone anything, nor does Plant, Jonesy, etc. If nothing else, Page created the biggest band on the planet, all members being contributors...they should be proud but they're constantly put down. So, if they acted badly (who doesn't)..then those who supposedly need to continually to 'bash them' should have left the band and entourage 'boo hoo hoo' to all those crying about it now. Good grief! Nothing interesting or revealing offered in that book, just a bunch of mashed together quotes some of which sound so ridiculous. That's my opinion anyway.

You're entitled to your opinion but your explanations are all over the place.

The book is a good read because it quotes people who worked with the band who haven't been extensively interviewed before. The book does not "constantly put down" the members at all. If anything, it shows the tremendous arc that was their story and their brutally human fall that the mythology has done a great job at rewriting.

If you don't like that these guys were human, misbehaved sometimes and acted cold in others, then you're deceiving yourself about who these people really were. They weren't evil. They weren't murderers. They were a product of their times, wrapped up in their own world that eventually came apart. For people who worked with them to shed light on that world is a gratifying testimony for most fans who are tired of the 'mud sharks, groupies and picture books.' This book is both interesting and revealing in that sense.

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I agree with your statement Zeppy and fall into the category of readers you described at the end.

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Not sure but Katie4Pagey sounds like an overwrought 14 year old "fangirl" who's knickers are in a twist over a non-issue.

Yep, was thinking the same thing myself.

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Although I haven't read the book, I think that a pile of quotes can be also a way to show just one side of the story, because they are out of context and we don't know many things not only about those who say them, but all that happened at the time. We weren't there for good or bad. It's other less noticeable way to write "your own version". (Who hasn't been disliked by some unknown just because other person that dislikes you has been talkin' shit?) So each one must read criticly, trying to keep it on context.This is a general comment, not necesarilly related to the book. Just because I desagree with that of "quotes speak on their own". We must be careful judging people just for a bunch of quotes, because there might be any other not "quoted" side (better or worse) that we don't know.

Apart from that, I believe the "pedestal" of Led Zeppelin is actually more involved with their music, not with their personalities. The first issue regarding to Led Zeppelin that always comes out is satanism and all that stuff. Since the first very moment, I knew that Led Zeppelin members were polemical. For most of what I've read, if they are idealized, it's always in their competence as musicians and creators. Hammer of the gods, just to mention an example, has uncomfortable stories about John Bonham too. So I don't see the difference between this or another book when it comes to believe what it says.

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Although I haven't read the book, I think that a pile of quotes can be also a way to show just one side of the story, because they are out of context and we don't know many things not only about those who say them, but all that happened at the time. We weren't there for good or bad. It's other less noticeable way to write "your own version". (Who hasn't been disliked by some unknown just because other person that dislikes you has been talkin' shit?) So each one must read criticly, trying to keep it on context.This is a general comment, not necesarilly related to the book. Just because I desagree with that of "quotes speak on their own". We must be careful judging people just for a bunch of quotes, because there might be any other not "quoted" side (better or worse) that we don't know.

Apart from that, I believe the "pedestal" of Led Zeppelin is actually more involved with their music, not with their personalities. The first issue regarding to Led Zeppelin that always comes out is satanism and all that stuff. Since the first very moment, I knew that Led Zeppelin members were polemical. For most of what I've read, if they are idealized, it's always in their competence as musicians and creators. Hammer of the gods, just to mention an example, has uncomfortable stories about John Bonham too. So I don't see the difference between this or another book when it comes to believe what it says.

Fair enough. Read the book! :bubble:

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At this point, one might ask, why does anyone bother reading unauthorized biographies filled with quotes or misquotes, as it may be, made by people who may or may not have a bone to pick?

Are we to believe what Andy Johns is saying here? How can we be sure? And above all, does any of it really matter?

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At this point, one might ask, why does anyone bother reading unauthorized biographies filled with quotes or misquotes, as it may be, made by people who may or may not have a bone to pick?

Are we to believe what Andy Johns is saying here? How can we be sure? And above all, does any of it really matter?

So many fascinating tidbits in this part of the interview. Andy Johns (RIP) was born in 1950 so he was barely in his 20's when he engineered Led Zeppelin III. That was a lot of responsibility for such a young bloke. Zep may have recorded their third and fourth albums so quickly because Jimmy Page wanted to keep studio costs down. I tend to believe Johns' anecdote about Page denying him a production credit because his brother, Glyn, has told a similar story. Page didn't earn the nickname Led Wallet by being generous with his funds.

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So many fascinating tidbits in this part of the interview. Andy Johns (RIP) was born in 1950 so he was barely in his 20's when he engineered Led Zeppelin III. That was a lot of responsibility for such a young bloke. Zep may have recorded their third and fourth albums so quickly because Jimmy Page wanted to keep studio costs down. I tend to believe Johns' anecdote about Page denying him a production credit because his brother, Glyn, has told a similar story. Page didn't earn the nickname Led Wallet by being generous with his funds.

So, what...is all I'm saying. So what if he was cheap, frugal, etc..that's my point. Who are YOU or anyone to judge any of them, who cares. Why would that matter? Maybe you're frugal, maybe you spend too much money, maybe you drink too much, frickin don't bathe everyday, maybe you're an azz hole...IDK, who cares. And frankly, those who have affluence - a lot of wealth (i grew up this way) typically are frugal with their money. I'm not defending anyone here I just think the book was stupid and served no purpose. And the 14 year old fangirl comment, please. Do I have a huge lady crush on Jimmy Page...hell yeah! The man was/is gorgeous...damn hot as hell. Do I or did I think he was perfect...impervious to human mistakes...ah, NO! and, how the hell would I know anyway, I've never met him.

Edited by Katie4pagey

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So, what...is all I'm saying. So what if he was cheap, frugal, etc..that's my point. Who are YOU or anyone to judge any of them, who cares. Why would that matter? Maybe you're frugal, maybe you spend too much money, maybe you drink too much, frickin don't bathe everyday, maybe you're an azz hole...IDK, who cares. And frankly, those who have affluence - a lot of wealth (i grew up this way) typically are frugal with their money. I'm not defending anyone here I just think the book was stupid and served no purpose. And the 14 year old fangirl comment, please. Do I have a huge lady crush on Jimmy Page...hell yeah! The man was/is gorgeous...damn hot as hell. Do I or did I think he was perfect...impervious to human mistakes...ah, NO! and, how the hell would I know anyway, I've never met him.

So, you're not a 14 year old fangirl?

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So many fascinating tidbits in this part of the interview. Andy Johns (RIP) was born in 1950 so he was barely in his 20's when he engineered Led Zeppelin III. That was a lot of responsibility for such a young bloke. Zep may have recorded their third and fourth albums so quickly because Jimmy Page wanted to keep studio costs down. I tend to believe Johns' anecdote about Page denying him a production credit because his brother, Glyn, has told a similar story. Page didn't earn the nickname Led Wallet by being generous with his funds.

But he wasn't a co-producer for Led Zeppelin and neither was his brother... He was an Engineer and a damn good one..

This is the guy who engineered When The Levee Breaks... containing the most sought after and sampled drum sound in the history of Rock music.. That still doesn't make him a co-producer.

You don't see Eddie Kramer or Leif Masses saying they deserved a producer credit... because they didn't.

Sound Engineering is an art form in itself.

The only person that I think could have a legitimate gripe with Jimmy about not getting a producer credit would be a certain Mr. John Paul Jones. In Through The Out Door was his baby ... musically.

It was kind of funny and weird seeing Page split producer credits with Paul Rodgers, David Coverdale and Robert Plant after being sole producer of the greatest body of work from any Hard Rock band..

Songwriting credits is a whole different ballgame...

The other point is 3 weeks in the studio is plenty of time when you're there 24-7.

I don't think it was a money issue with Led Zeppelin. Strike while the iron is hot...

Edited by the chase

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You don't see Eddie Kramer or Leif Masses saying they deserved a producer credit... because they didn't.

You don't see Eddie saying that exactly...but he has made a few more combative statements about Jimmy in recent years.

Glyn Johns was a control freak, probably on the same level as Jimmy; he might have been stiffed on a production credit, but his younger (and infinitely more naïve) brother? I can't see that having worked out -- he would have (or should have) known that Jimmy was the producer, and he was the engineer, his impact on the aural landscape of Led Zeppelin notwithstanding.

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...Glyn Johns was a control freak, probably on the same level as Jimmy...

That must have made for some tense moments in the studio to put it mildly.

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There's a quote in the book, something like

"The thing that struck me about Jimmy in the studio, was how he would listen and know what should be done, instead of everything that could be done" .

From Jimmy - "The reason I changed engineers a lot was because I don't want anybody claiming they are responsible for the 'Zeppelin' sound"

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