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Yes, it was the opinion of Hoskyns, hence the quotations.

I was refering to people posting long drawn dramas on the resurrection of Led Zeppelin, Plant bashing, etc., etc.

Can't say I recall you in that camp, Reggie.

Can't say I like or not like a post until I've read it either.

Deep South peace your way.

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Yes, it was the opinion of Hoskyns, hence the quotations.

I was refering to people posting long drawn dramas on the resurrection of Led Zeppelin, Plant bashing, etc., etc.

Can't say I recall you in that camp, Reggie.

Can't say I like or not like a post until I've read it either.

Deep South peace your way.

All good, mate! I knew where you were coming from.

Some posts are a bit long winded but are interesting reads most of the time and it becomes tedious when positive news turns into an ugly debate.

I haven't seen the book in the shops here, yet?

I might have to go online.

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I agree. His This Day post yesterday was sad, too. (or maybe wistful is a better word.)

I didn't interpret that quotation as a swipe at Robert Plant - just the truth about the situation. Robert has been vocal about not wanting to do it just as Jimmy has been about wanting to do it. Hoskyn's book is by and large very favorable to Robert. There were some things I'd read before from the usual suspects but others were new including from new sources.

Tolinski's book would be fine if it was marketed as all the Guitar World interviews in one tome but it was not - it was implied there was new information from years of interviews. As I've said earlier, I'm a new fan and only a few paragraphs were new to me. Everything else I'd already read online in the space of a few months. I don't have any of the magazines. I also don't think the book gave that much information about how the music was made.

I've read a lot of biographies and always find what inspires/interests a creator is fascinating including their personal life. That's the genre of biography!

Sometimes an artists' inspiration has introduced me to new things- art, ideas,history,books,music, etc. I don't have any issues with Jimmy's occult beliefs or how he led/leads his personal life but to suggest these are things separate from the music is not an accurate assessment of anyone's life. Of course, the music can be appreciated, recognized, loved, outside of knowing all that information but it is who he is (or was.) Just as the negative perspective in Hoskyn's book doesn't change my opinion that he's a musical genius or a fascinating man. Most creative (or powerful) people I've known or read about have had fairly messy personal lives - but I think their life taken in its entirety is what makes biography interesting.

Somehow I don't think we'd learn much more from a Jimmy bio unless it was posthumous.

I agree. With autobiographies or documentary films that delve honestly into the motivations and personal obsessions and passions of artists, writers, musicians, and great thinkers, people can arrive at a greater understanding of their work. Personal privacy should not have to be breached for this. If Page won't talk about the occult for fear of being misread, then he hasn't found a smart writer he can trust enough to convey his thoughts and feelings. I've not come across anything yet on his knowledge of textiles/tapestries which hugely interests me.

Sometimes being too careful and guarded about what you say in the media can backfire. In the RS article when Page states that he was never out of control during his drinks and drugs period, my mind wandered to his performance at the ARMS concert at RAH. If he had in this interview acknowledged that his state at that time was fragile, it would have felt honest. It may have even given hope to some who idolize him who deal with similar issues. Instead, the impression he presents is of a man who refuses to believe he is fallible. Drinks and drugs are often part of the artistic process and not particular to the 70s or music. I think the journalist should have nailed him on that one. It's possible to appreciate brilliance without agreeing with one's lifestyle or personal opinions, so I can't figure why he's so guarded.

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http://dangerousminds.net/comments/trampled_under_foot_barney_hoskyns_brilliant_oral_history_of_led_zeppelin

Words from the author of Trampled Underfoot / The Oral History.

Doubting Christmas cards are in the mail from the band.

Bought the last copy today at a local bookstore. Over 500 pages and can't wait to dig in.

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I agree. With autobiographies or documentary films that delve honestly into the motivations and personal obsessions and passions of artists, writers, musicians, and great thinkers, people can arrive at a greater understanding of their work. Personal privacy should not have to be breached for this. If Page won't talk about the occult for fear of being misread, then he hasn't found a smart writer he can trust enough to convey his thoughts and feelings. I've not come across anything yet on his knowledge of textiles/tapestries which hugely interests me.

Sometimes being too careful and guarded about what you say in the media can backfire. In the RS article when Page states that he was never out of control during his drinks and drugs period, my mind wandered to his performance at the ARMS concert at RAH. If he had in this interview acknowledged that his state at that time was fragile, it would have felt honest. It may have even given hope to some who idolize him who deal with similar issues. Instead, the impression he presents is of a man who refuses to believe he is fallible. Drinks and drugs are often part of the artistic process and not particular to the 70s or music. I think the journalist should have nailed him on that one. It's possible to appreciate brilliance without agreeing with one's lifestyle or personal opinions, so I can't figure why he's so guarded.

I liked what you wrote about the smart writer. I honestly don't think there are many great interviewers out there. I think of Charlie Rose and Bill Moyers but for musicians, not so much. The guy who wrote the Elvis books is a very good writer but interviewing people is a different skill.

As for the addictions, maybe, he's embarrassed or maybe he doesn't feel like he owes anyone an apology/explanation for it. For someone who is/was often described as a control freak, he lost control of his career, his talent, his band, his personal life, etc. It reminds me of Lance Armstrong refusing to admit he doped. I know Jimmy doesn't deny he did drugs but how he minimizes their impact on those last years. Although I guess he is quoted as somewhere saying his doctor told him he was living on borrowed time.

To admit that loss of control though means you have to admit many other things that come with that kind of behavior. Maybe it's just too much for him - or maybe it's something he reserves for the people in his private life as opposed to the public, which I can respect.

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I initially placed an order for Tolinski's book but after reading all the rather negative reviews about it and after coming across this book by Barney Hoskyns and all the positive reviews with regard to what an informative read it actually is, I took the plunge and changed my mind and ordered Barney Hoskyns' book instead and cancelled my order for Tolinski's book!

And honestly, Strider, Magic and Miss Melanie, if you guys think that Barney Hoskyns' book is a good read then I really don't think I am going to regret my decision of ordering that instead because I firmly believe that you guys always make the right call! :) Thanks for the warning on Tolinski's book! Much appreciated! :)

+1

agreed!

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As for the addictions, maybe, he's embarrassed or maybe he doesn't feel like he owes anyone an apology/explanation for it. For someone who is/was often described as a control freak, he lost control of his career, his talent, his band, his personal life, etc. It reminds me of Lance Armstrong refusing to admit he doped. I know Jimmy doesn't deny he did drugs but how he minimizes their impact on those last years. Although I guess he is quoted as somewhere saying his doctor told him he was living on borrowed time.

To admit that loss of control though means you have to admit many other things that come with that kind of behavior. Maybe it's just too much for him - or maybe it's something he reserves for the people in his private life as opposed to the public, which I can respect.

:goodpost:

As always.....:)

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Having read his previous pocket tome on Led Zeppelin entitled Led Zeppelin IV from the Rock of Ages book series, I was looking forward to this book by Hoskyns. Well, I just completed reading Trampled Underfoot and I'm somewhat disappointed with it. In some respects, it's worse than Stephen Davis' book but without the sensationalist filler Davis engaged in. There are a lots of statements from various alumni, some reasonably well known, others on the fringe, but these statements are mostly without context or reference. It's similar to reading Dave Lewis' book Led Zeppelin Talking which was full of quotes, without places and dates when they were said - great if you love soundbytes but not very useful from a historian's point of view. Some of the people quoted, like Unity Maclean, come across as bitter and holding a grudge against certain band members (this might be due to Maclean being employed as an assistant to Carole Brown at Swan Song for years, even though she was well qualified to be an officer manager). Malcolm McLaren OTOH certainly idolized Peter Grant and it would have been interesting had his biopic of Peter had ever been completed.

John Bonham reportedly sang backing vocals for Tim Rose during his UK tour. Bonham's involvement has been discussed in another thread but I would love to hear any boots from this tour if they ever surface which I'm not hopeful they ever will.

One of the most surprising things (or not) was how much Don Arden was an asshole - I knew he was bad (re: hanging people like Robert Stigwood out of his window) but not to the extent of point blank not paying bands a dime he presumably managed because he said so. The worse manager anyone could ever have.

On a scale of 1 to 10. I give the book a 5. An interesting read but not really essential.

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I liked what you wrote about the smart writer. I honestly don't think there are many great interviewers out there. I think of Charlie Rose and Bill Moyers but for musicians, not so much. The guy who wrote the Elvis books is a very good writer but interviewing people is a different skill.

As for the addictions, maybe, he's embarrassed or maybe he doesn't feel like he owes anyone an apology/explanation for it. For someone who is/was often described as a control freak, he lost control of his career, his talent, his band, his personal life, etc. It reminds me of Lance Armstrong refusing to admit he doped. I know Jimmy doesn't deny he did drugs but how he minimizes their impact on those last years. Although I guess he is quoted as somewhere saying his doctor told him he was living on borrowed time.

To admit that loss of control though means you have to admit many other things that come with that kind of behavior. Maybe it's just too much for him - or maybe it's something he reserves for the people in his private life as opposed to the public, which I can respect.

Very well stated. And I would add that some journalists should bite the bullet and admit they are not book writers. Regarding music journalists, the less thoughtful ones have perhaps not had the experience of rising through the ranks of a major daily or respected magazine with tough editors. I love it when a smart, passionate writer takes on a subject previously unknown to them. It takes guts and the fresh perspective is often appreciated by interviewees since they often face the same music beat reporters year after year. Seasoned pros who can write and bring a story alive should be applauded too. With specific reference to Brad T, much is made of his closeness to Jimmy. It's possible that has hindered more than helped his articles. I agree with whomever here pointed out that Brad likely feels he must appease his subject instead of getting a little tough and venturing down new paths.

Re the addictions - exactly. When you take yourself down a certain path you eventually have to deal with your underlying behaviour, and that requires introspection and admitting to aspects of your personality that you'd perhaps prefer to avoid or hide. It could not have been easy for him, but whatever he went though it's his private business. His response just struck me as odd.

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As always..... :)

Thanks, Walter!

I agree with whomever here pointed out that Brad likely feels he must appease his subject instead of getting a little tough and venturing down new paths.

Yes, I agree. But even when they do ask tough questions (as Fricke implies in RS), Jimmy just says, "I'm not going to tell you." Which as I've previously said makes me laugh. I think Tolinksi even alludes to those kinds of situations in his book. So few celebrities create ANY boundaries these days it's refreshing that someone still does.

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Very well stated. And I would add that some journalists should bite the bullet and admit they are not book writers. Regarding music journalists, the less thoughtful ones have perhaps not had the experience of rising through the ranks of a major daily or respected magazine with tough editors. I love it when a smart, passionate writer takes on a subject previously unknown to them. It takes guts and the fresh perspective is often appreciated by interviewees since they often face the same music beat reporters year after year. Seasoned pros who can write and bring a story alive should be applauded too. With specific reference to Brad T, much is made of his closeness to Jimmy. It's possible that has hindered more than helped his articles. I agree with whomever here pointed out that Brad likely feels he must appease his subject instead of getting a little tough and venturing down new paths.

I'm not sufficiently familiar with the rest of Brad's writing. On another thread - after reading the Brad book - I posted a similar thought: that these interviews assembled as they are don't make him a book author. But also that there's clearly a market for the book. Others though on this thread, who do know Brad's work, speak highly of him as a journalist.

I wonder whether any journalist who wants to work with Jimmy ends up paying a price: to compromise their journalism and suppress the instinct to uncover and illuminate ? Access to Jimmy for journalists is so rare that someone might persuade themselves that ANY such interview and writeup would illuminate SOMETHING, or would at least be a step along the way. But as Shadecatcher says, it takes guts ... and even more guts from the writer's subject. Jimmy seems defensive in the most controlled and benign interview situations: I think the concept of self-revelation, and of opening yourself to that level of scrutiny, is something he's avoided for so long that it can't happen.

Whether as journalists, or simply as human beings, we do all make compromises in the way we relate to those we know. I wonder how many of Jimmy's circle other than journalists also find they pay the same price: "appeasing Jimmy" ? I hope not all of them: we all need an honest friend.

It also reminds me how enigmatic those occasional statements are from Jimmy, that he might one day write an autobiography to be published posthumously.. If he means it at all, does he mean, finally, to be entirely open ? And for him, is that even possible ?

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Jimmy seems defensive in the most controlled and benign interview situations: I think the concept of self-revelation, and of opening yourself to that level of scrutiny, is something he's avoided for so long that it can't happen.

Whether as journalists, or simply as human beings, we do all make compromises in the way we relate to those we know. I wonder how many of Jimmy's circle other than journalists also find they pay the same price: "appeasing Jimmy" ? I hope not all of them: we all need an honest friend.

It also reminds me how enigmatic those occasional statements are from Jimmy, that he might one day write an autobiography to be published posthumously.. If he means it at all, does he mean, finally, to be entirely open ? And for him, is that even possible ?

I like what you wrote. I am enjoying this thread because it's nice to see so many well-stated opinions - like a book club without the drama.

Finding a honest friend isn't easy - even more difficult with fame, wealth, and power in the picture. That's one of the things Hoksyns notes in his interview - there was no around to say, "Dude, enough already," when things got out of control and the drugs compounded everything. Enablers always find someone to enable. I can't imagine being surrounded by people who just want to kiss my ass but I guess that's part of the price of that kind of life. One of the female employees talks about this a bit in the book with regard to the type of women that were around them.

I'm always surprised how the photographer is allowed to talk about him and their activities so publicly it doesn't make sense with the insistence on privacy but I think he's more secretive than private. He must approve every entry.

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I've worked with very controlling people who fear the media and how they are presented. One of the ironies is that the less you insist on control and making a big issue over what others can ask or write about you, the better you are treated and portrayed by the media. When an interviewee comes off as a sweet person and (at least appears) open, the media don't go for the throat. There is no reason to. It's when you are shut down or manipulated (and that can be smelled a mile off) that things get tricky.

It's a double edged sword: the media need content and personalities need the media to disseminate information about their work. It isn't always an easy ride but treating each other with respect is a good place to begin the shared journey. From everything I have read on this site about Jimmy I have formed the opinion that he either feels he is above media scrutiny and minimizes the opinions of some reporters/writers, or that his unease is derived from an inner struggle to provide honest interviews that respect people who want to read about him and his inability to trust the process. It's funny but sometimes the people who object the most to being scrutinized or asked difficult to questions are the ones that receive the most criticism and risk being totally ignored. Why beat your head against a wall interviewing Page when you can interview dozens of other artists open to talking intelligently about their careers, inspirations and talents? Yes he is a talent who makes interesting music but let's face it he isn't alone in that category. Personally I would have walked out of an interview with him that was too controlled or produced half baked or dishonest responses. And I would have reported that too.

Someone here mentioned the price of fame and indeed I can think of no worse lot in life than to not be able to freely move about without having people come up to you all the time. If you are ever close to this sort of activity you quickly realize what a burden it is. And imagine meeting someone, particularly a romantic interest who is not of your status or close circle of artists - how could you really know if they care about you or your public persona? Other than old friends who know the real you, all that bottom kissing either makes you more leery of outsiders or you completely succumb to it and believe the hype.

I am enjoying all of your opinions - it is good to have this conversation.

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Thanks, Walter!

Yes, I agree. But even when they do ask tough questions (as Fricke implies in RS), Jimmy just says, "I'm not going to tell you." Which as I've previously said makes me laugh. I think Tolinksi even alludes to those kinds of situations in his book. So few celebrities create ANY boundaries these days it's refreshing that someone still does.

I think most personalities (at least ones that'd I'd read about) do protect their privacy, and I don't think anyone expects them to divulge highly personal information. Most people in general don't do that. But you can't expect the media not to ask questions when you've done or showcased something publicly. If you don't want to provide an answer then don't do it publicly. That said, a slap on the wrist to media who do not respect the private lives of performers - or any of us.

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Shadecatcher, great posts,I agree with all of your thoughtful comments which illustrate how complex this situation is.

Personally I would have walked out of an interview with him that was too controlled or produced half baked or dishonest responses. And I would have reported that too.

Except that I don't know my own answer to the above. That's what I mean about compromises.

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Shadecatcher, great posts,I agree with all of your thoughtful comments which illustrate how complex this situation is.

Except that I don't know my own answer to the above. That's what I mean about compromises.

Thank you very much; I'm enjoying your writing as well. I think honest writers should expect and receive honest subjects. Of course personalities find it hard to trust someone they don't know. It's the reporter's job to gain their trust with a solid track record of well researched and accurate writing. They have to respect that the journalist or feature writer knows how to shape a good story and go with that. One thing I'd like to see is more personalities receive and listen to seasoned, smart public relations people. Not PR hacks that load up your press clipping file with anything but those that develop good media connections and produce well written and interesting media results. Personalities can do themselves a great favour by working closely with a good PR person but they have to listen to the advice they are given. I don't now if Page has one, it doesn't seem so sometimes.

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I really regret picking up this book.

Either Jimmy is a complete cunt or Hosykyns keeps getting very biased views on Pagey e.g "Benji". I vote the latter.

I know the relationship between Robert and Jimmy is rocky to say the least but he's made it seem like they've hated each other completely post 77. The whole o2 situation is absolute bollocks with Jimmy only interested in merchandising rather than uniting Zeppelin. Will say the start of the book is very good but as soon as it got to around 75 it seems like Bonzo, Jimmy and Grant turned deranged, drug crazyand just fucked everyone over... very Grimm brothers if you ask me.

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I really regret picking up this book.

Either Jimmy is a complete cunt or Hosykyns keeps getting very biased views on Pagey e.g "Benji". I vote the latter.

I know the relationship between Robert and Jimmy is rocky to say the least but he's made it seem like they've hated each other completely post 77. The whole o2 situation is absolute bollocks with Jimmy only interested in merchandising rather than uniting Zeppelin. Will say the start of the book is very good but as soon as it got to around 75 it seems like Bonzo, Jimmy and Grant turned deranged, drug crazyand just fucked everyone over... very Grimm brothers if you ask me.

I really regret picking up this book.

Either Jimmy is a complete cunt or Hosykyns keeps getting very biased views on Pagey e.g "Benji". I vote the latter.

I know the relationship between Robert and Jimmy is rocky to say the least but he's made it seem like they've hated each other completely post 77. The whole o2 situation is absolute bollocks with Jimmy only interested in merchandising rather than uniting Zeppelin. Will say the start of the book is very good but as soon as it got to around 75 it seems like Bonzo, Jimmy and Grant turned deranged, drug crazyand just fucked everyone over... very Grimm brothers if you ask me.

I really regret picking up this book.

Either Jimmy is a complete cunt or Hosykyns keeps getting very biased views on Pagey e.g "Benji". I vote the latter.

I know the relationship between Robert and Jimmy is rocky to say the least but he's made it seem like they've hated each other completely post 77. The whole o2 situation is absolute bollocks with Jimmy only interested in merchandising rather than uniting Zeppelin. Will say the start of the book is very good but as soon as it got to around 75 it seems like Bonzo, Jimmy and Grant turned deranged, drug crazyand just fucked everyone over... very Grimm brothers if you ask me.

I've only read Light & Shade and started When Giants Walked but I'm not that far into it. From what I have read, people skirt the issue of Page being quite a nasty character. All that charity stuff doesn't phase me, I know lots of people who do that and they are horrid human beings to everyone around them normally. Who you are is who you are so unlikely he has changed. All that soft spoken smiley nice stuff now could easily just be his public face. Not fair to tag him with being a troll though because only those close to him know his private side. We can enjoy his music without knowing much about him personally or actually respecting him as a person. He would have been impossible to be around during the heavy drug years but that applies to anyone under the influence. It's a miracle he had any women at all in his life at that time. Or any other time, if he really is an unsavory character because no amount of fame or fortune can make up for someone that challenges your happiness. Does it matter whether he's a decent guy or an arrogant shit?

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"For Jimmy, Zeppelin is like a love affair that he's never gotten over and he wants to go back there, it's the great fact of his life - as it would be for you or I. But it isn't to Robert." - Barney Hoskyns

This is very sad, but Jimmy has made it clear in the recent interviews that another reunion or tour isn't likely to happened. Also he sounds like he's ready to move on. He wants to release the new things next year (his solo stuff and unreleased Zep with the remasters), and if you will notice today he is going to go back to reaching us through his site and contiuning the On This Day. I don't think Jimmy is waiting for anyone anymore.

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I thought the Hoskyns book was interesting, and very grim...and tilted against Jimmy in the sense that heavy emphasis was given to some clearly bitter former employees with an axe to grind. Beji LeFevre was the worst example of this. I had gone through several quotes from him, and I kept thinking "man, this guy's got a real problem...but then again, he was there, and I wasn't..." In other words, I was keeping an open mind. Then I got to a quote where he claimed that on the '77 tour, Jimmy would be so fucked up, he would play through songs on the double-neck, strumming one of the guitars while fingering the chords on the neck of the other...thinking he was playing the same one. At that point, I knew this guy was some kind of cheap character assassin. Jimmy made some mistakes on the '77 tour - it's my favorite tour, but at the same time, I understand what the gripes are about - but it's beyond ridiculous to claim that he was playing that way through Song Remains The Same, Stairway To Heaven, etc... You don't have to be a gutiarist to know that would be complete ridiculous, incomprohensible cacophony (insert your Noise Solo jokes here). I don't think that ever happened. For a second, while he's switching parts in a song? Maybe. But that's not how LeFevre presented it...and there are a few other people in that book that are clearly venting their grudges to the point where you feel like you should doubt everything they say. But like I said, it's an interesting book...just sad (because it seemed like there was still plenty of truth to the grim parts). I remember one section where a doctor said, around Christmas time, that Jimmy wouldn't make it to the new year, or through the new year, or something like that. Really sad. I'm glad Jimmy's still with us.

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I thought the Hoskyns book was interesting, and very grim...and tilted against Jimmy in the sense that heavy emphasis was given to some clearly bitter former employees with an axe to grind. Beji LeFevre was the worst example of this. I had gone through several quotes from him, and I kept thinking "man, this guy's got a real problem...but then again, he was there, and I wasn't..." In other words, I was keeping an open mind. Then I got to a quote where he claimed that on the '77 tour, Jimmy would be so fucked up, he would play through songs on the double-neck, strumming one of the guitars while fingering the chords on the neck of the other...thinking he was playing the same one. At that point, I knew this guy was some kind of cheap character assassin. Jimmy made some mistakes on the '77 tour - it's my favorite tour, but at the same time, I understand what the gripes are about - but it's beyond ridiculous to claim that he was playing that way through Song Remains The Same, Stairway To Heaven, etc... You don't have to be a gutiarist to know that would be complete ridiculous, incomprohensible cacophony (insert your Noise Solo jokes here). I don't think that ever happened. For a second, while he's switching parts in a song? Maybe. But that's not how LeFevre presented it...and there are a few other people in that book that are clearly venting their grudges to the point where you feel like you should doubt everything they say. But like I said, it's an interesting book...just sad (because it seemed like there was still plenty of truth to the grim parts). I remember one section where a doctor said, around Christmas time, that Jimmy wouldn't make it to the new year, or through the new year, or something like that. Really sad. I'm glad Jimmy's still with us.

From the picture you give, whatever pain others received from Page he turned in on himself tenfold. Very sad indeed.

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It's my favorite Zeppelin book as far the personal inner workings & salacious side of the band. Hoskyn's doesn't throw in his own thoughts, opinions, fantasy dialogue into his book the way that both Stephen Davis & Mick Wall did but constructs a narrative through interviews & cherry picked comments from those involved. It may not be the perfect unbiased book those of us crave but it's certainly better than "Hammer Of The Gods" & "When Giants Walked The Earth". It was an enjoyable read & I think at this point there are those who feel less intimidated about Zeppelin retribution when spilling the beans about them.

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Beji LeFevre was the worst example of this. I had gone through several quotes from him, and I kept thinking "man, this guy's got a real problem...but then again, he was there, and I wasn't..." In other words, I was keeping an open mind. Then I got to a quote where he claimed that on the '77 tour, Jimmy would be so fucked up, he would play through songs on the double-neck, strumming one of the guitars while fingering the chords on the neck of the other...thinking he was playing the same one. At that point, I knew this guy was some kind of cheap character assassin.

LeFevre tended to get on people's nerves. If you read Mick Bonham's book on brother John, at the bar in the wake for John's funeral, Mick Bonham decked LeFevre with a punch. LeFevre said and did some nasty pranks to John during his lifetime. LeFevre allegedly coined the nickname "the Beast" for John. The only thing that stopped LeFevre being sacked was that he was good friends with Robert. There is also the rumour that the person responsible for leaking to journalists John's pallid colour at death and the emesis on Page's carpet was LeFevre, who was there along with John Paul Jones.

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Benji was not the only person in Hoskyn's book portraying Jimmy in an favorable light from 1975 on...If you're a drug addict, then by extension you're a selfish person. The fact that Jimmy came out the other side is the real triumph of this story. Maybe Benji had an axe to grind but it doesn't make what he said any less true.

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