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Barney Hoskyns book

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Thanks for the props mielazul, and welcome aboard! It was a cool process once the tapes were "rediscovered" as it were, until they were released for worldwide consumption. Glad to see the thread gets active hits. Believe I'll give ALS a listen in a few.

I'm about a third of the way through the book. Taking my time. So far to me, money well spent.

Hey Jabe, thanks for the welcome. Yeah, that thread was like reading a mini-mini-novel about discovering a lost treasure...all culminating in that great ALS clip you put up. Very cool. I think it relates to the topic here, because I feel like your story, and all the hundreds of stories in the live forum are what I REALLY want in LZ books - how seeing them live was such an ecstatic, kind of religious experience for so many people...and how, all these years later, recordings from those shows are sought after and cherished by so many people as kind of sacred documents. I'll be the first to admit that I like reading about the salacious, gritty behind-the-scenes stuff as much as anybody...but if a book doesn't give major space to how magic those shows were - as opposed to kind of touching on it in passing, as if it's not as important as who was doing who and who was doing what - it just doesn't do the band justice at all. Thanks again for the welcome.

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A friend has hinted that I might be getting this for Christmas so I'm waiting until then. Looking forward to reading it...it's long been overdue for an upgrade from the last "Led Zeppelin in their own words" type of book that came out in the early 80s.

I just received this for Christmas myself! It was a nice surprise as I wasn't expecting it.

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Hope you enjoy it Ady. I'm probably going to give it another full runthrough after everyone who has gotten it for a holiday gift gets a chance to read it. Some of the comments in this thread have had me going back to look at some of the quotes.

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About Benji LeFevre and the whole playing the 6-string while chording the 12-string quote, I'm fairly certain this never happened during a song on stage, it's just not something that slips through the cracks, and I have never heard a bootleg of said gig where this happens. If Jimmy did that it would just be a noise, not a wrong chord or something like that, just go ahead and strum and open 6-string guitar yourself. However I don't think Benji is lying either, I'd say this is a case of 30+ years gone by and a mishmash of memories, it's entirely possible Benji could have seen something like this in another setting, or another guitar-related failure and over the years it's just all boiled into one soup.

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About Benji LeFevre and the whole playing the 6-string while chording the 12-string quote, I'm fairly certain this never happened during a song on stage, it's just not something that slips through the cracks, and I have never heard a bootleg of said gig where this happens. If Jimmy did that it would just be a noise, not a wrong chord or something like that, just go ahead and strum and open 6-string guitar yourself. However I don't think Benji is lying either, I'd say this is a case of 30+ years gone by and a mishmash of memories, it's entirely possible Benji could have seen something like this in another setting, or another guitar-related failure and over the years it's just all boiled into one soup.

I'm glad you and other people are getting what I'm saying about the double-neck guitar thing. It never happened. As far as calling Benji a liar - well, of course I can't tell how confused he really is, and maybe using that term is too strident. But he just came across as such a poisonous person - people can read the book for themselves, but I'm pretty sure they'll find that Benji seems reasonable at first, but then the hate starts rolling off him really thick. And there are other people in that book who have plenty of grievances...and rightfully so, probably...but none of them come across as...well, liars...like Benji does. I mean, just off the top of my head - and this isn't about lying so much as kind of basic nastiness - I recall him suggesting that Page was mainly interested in the 02 show and a possible reunion for the merchandising money. Call me crazy, but I thought he wanted to reassert Led Zeppelin's greatness at least one more time, in a setting where he could also pay tribute to Ahmet. Did merchandising related to a possible reunion come up? Probably. But check out how Benji presents it and you'll see what I mean. Benji also suggests - based on zero knowledge - that it was Page who wanted to exclude John Paul Jones in the Page/Plant era...because Page wanted to control everything. I don't know what really happened...but it's seems like Jimmy always wanted to get together with Rob, John Paul, and Jason too, and Rob didn't want to get into that. And most people who seem knowledgeable about the Page/Plant era feel that Jimmy gave up a hell of a lot of control, and it was Rob who wanted to control everything.

There are plenty of other things I could mention...but the double-neck thing made me crazy because I'm sick of the "77 bitches" who think they can say the word "Heroin" and then make up whatever they want...or make the whole tour sound awful. Led Zeppelin in 1977 was epic on most nights - just spend some time going through this forum. You'll find that most people who were there had their minds blown...and they didn't care about a few bum notes, and they didn't obsess over Jimmy's "thinner tone" and they certainly never saw Jimmy playing the guitar like some kind of impossible ambidextrous magic trick designed to make pure, hideous noise out of Stairway to Heaven. Enough with this bullshit.

Edited by mielazul

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I'm glad you and other people are getting what I'm saying about the double-neck guitar thing. It never happened. As far as calling Benji a liar - well, of course I can't tell how confused he really is, and maybe using that term is too strident. But he just came across as such a poisonous person - people can read the book for themselves, but I'm pretty sure they'll find that Benji seems reasonable at first, but then the hate starts rolling off him really thick. And there are other people in that book who have plenty of grievances...and rightfully so, probably...but none of them come across as...well, liars...like Benji does. I mean, just off the top of my head - and this isn't about lying so much as kind of basic nastiness - I recall him suggesting that Page was mainly interested in the 02 show and a possible reunion for the merchandising money. Call me crazy, but I thought he wanted to reassert Led Zeppelin's greatness at least one more time, in a setting where he could also pay tribute to Ahmet. Did merchandising related to a possible reunion come up? Probably. But check out how Benji presents it and you'll see what I mean. Benji also suggests - based on zero knowledge - that it was Page who wanted to exclude John Paul Jones in the Page/Plant era...because Page wanted to control everything. I don't know what really happened...but it's seems like Jimmy always wanted to get together with Rob, John Paul, and Jason too, and Rob didn't want to get into that. And most people who seem knowledgeable about the Page/Plant era feel that Jimmy gave up a hell of a lot of control, and it was Rob who wanted to control everything.

There are plenty of other things I could mention...but the double-neck thing made me crazy because I'm sick of the "77 bitches" who think they can say the word "Heroin" and then make up whatever they want...or make the whole tour sound awful. Led Zeppelin in 1977 was epic on most nights - just spend some time going through this forum. You'll find that most people who were there had their minds blown...and they didn't care about a few bum notes, and they didn't obsess over Jimmy's "thinner tone" and they certainly never saw Jimmy playing the guitar like some kind of impossible ambidextrous magic trick designed to make pure, hideous noise out of Stairway to Heaven. Enough with this bullshit.

One of the best posts I've ever read!

This book sounds awful to me...I'm not a huge fan of whitewashing history, but it does sound like a lot of the negativity portrayed in the book derives from people who've been holding a lengthy grudge. It's been interesting while reading this thread to see how people seem to buy entirely into the negative portrayals of Pagey and Bonzo.

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On a scale of 1 to 10. I give the book a 5. An interesting read but not really essential.

Given the above discussion in this thread, I re-read the book trying to keep an open mind, and re-assessed my own opinion - I'm perfectly happy in giving the book 2 out of 10. It's trash. Hoskyn's previous book Led Zeppelin IV is a much better tome.

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Given the above discussion in this thread, I re-read the book trying to keep an open mind, and re-assessed my own opinion - I'm perfectly happy in giving the book 2 out of 10. It's trash. Hoskyn's previous book Led Zeppelin IV is a much better tome.

So Joe, if Hoskyn wrote a previous book on LZ, is this new one in your opinion a cash in on the current LZ media blitz? What are the differences between the two books he has written?

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Levfre didn't say he thought Page did the 02 show based on the merchandising, what Levfre said was that Plant had told him that he was disgusted after a meeting that Page was already divving up the merchandising before they even did the show. Plant, not Levfre, apparently made this accusation, Levfre just recounted this exchange.

Edited by kaiser

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Levfre didn't say he thought Page did the 02 show based on the merchandising, what Levfre said was that Plant had told him that he disgusted after a meeting that Page was already divving up the merchandising before they even did the show. Plant, not Levfre, apparently made this accusation, Levfre just recounted this exchange.

Thought all proceeds from O2 went to charity ... merch was excluded from that?

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Thought all proceeds from O2 went to charity ... merch was excluded from that?

What would "Celebration Day" be then? It's merchandise & only a portion of it's sales are going to charity.

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So Joe, if Hoskyn wrote a previous book on LZ, is this new one in your opinion a cash in on the current LZ media blitz? What are the differences between the two books he has written?

I think that Hoskins previous book was solely about Led Zeppelin IV, not the Zep's entire career.

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What would "Celebration Day" be then? It's merchandise & only a portion of it's sales are going to charity.

According to an interview at Celebration Day's release, Page said they didn't even think about releasing the O2 performance as a doc film until years after the actual performance. Usually when a concert is shot it isn't canned for five years but released after its final edit the next year in time for the holiday season for example. A conversation between Page and Plant before the O2 performance about merchandise that they have not yet contemplated seems wrong.

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Hoskyns book on LZ 4 was actually "written" by him where he is telling the story of the album through his own words based on quotes from the principles involved. In Hoskyns current book he let's the quotes of those he has interviewed tell the story, a story he formed into a narrative based on the quotes given to him as well as quotes from the band members from other sources to either counteract an allegation or support it. Hoskyns has his finger all of the book yet he doesn't interject his own words & I think wisely so.

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According to an interview at Celebration Day's release, Page said they didn't even think about releasing the O2 performance as a doc film until years after the actual performance. Usually when a concert is shot it isn't canned for five years but released after its final edit the next year in time for the holiday season for example. A conversation between Page and Plant before the O2 performance about merchandise that they have not yet contemplated seems wrong.

Page gives the same pat answers in every interview & always has, which is smart as he doesn't like to trip himself up. What Page accentuates is that energies were focused on the show not a DVD of the show which I'm sure is true, it so happens that we now have merchandising of the show in various formats, I'm sure all divvied up accordingly. Led Zeppelin since 1980 has existed solely as a business, Page is the curator of that business, a conversation between Plant & Page during a business meeting where merchandising is brought up about the show that hasn't even been played yet makes perfect sense business wise considering they only exist as a business. People, Led Zeppelin ARE a business who once WERE a band.

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^^^^^^Yes, Zeppelin is a business but for Robert, playing at the tribute concert for a man he deeply respected was not a business decision. That is one of many examples of what makes Jimmy and Robert very different.

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^^^^^^Yes, Zeppelin is a business but for Robert, playing at the tribute concert for a man he deeply respected was not a business decision. That is one of many examples of what makes Jimmy and Robert very different.

What has Plant stated countless times over the years on why he doesn't want to revisit Led Zeppelin as a band again: the bigness & pressure of it all. He did the one show as a gift & that was it for him. I'm sure he had no interest in making that show bigger & with added pressure, merchandising I'm sure would be a part of him feeling like he was "in the fish bowl again". Page desperately wanted to continue. What we now have is the show on DVD instead of a lucrative tour that followed that show. Page has now "almost" resigned himself that they will not perform again... instead we are getting bonus tracks on reissued albums. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall for that meeting...

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That is one of many examples of what makes Jimmy and Robert very different.

...How in the hell do you know that, really? Second-hand accusations from burned ex-employees? Sounds like a great source.

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...How in the hell do you know that, really? Second-hand accusations from burned ex-employees? Sounds like a great source.

And a good morning to you too!

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And a good morning to you too!

Happy New Year!

:P

It just seems mindboggling to me that everyone's jumping on the Page-bashing bandwagon, mostly based on the testimony of people who were somehow burned by the band and would thus be on the lookout for a way to get their revenge. Specifically, of course, LeFevre. I'm really starting to understand why, in past bios and docs on the band, his testimony was limited to a few lines.

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I don't bash Page. I also don't wear rose tinted glasses when thinking of him either. Zeppelin was/is his baby and it is also a business. I do believe that Robert sees Zeppelin as a former wife that he still loves and respects but his life has moved on to other relationships. Jimmy wants to rekindle the romance but it is gone.

Robert is a free spirit. With Jimmy, reading interviews that he has given over the years, I get the impression that he can be quite controlling.

Edited for a stupid grammatical error.

Edited by Texas Melanie

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idk why people are focusing on LeFevre's comments. It's not as if he's the only one who had harsh things to say about JP. The overall impression I got from the book was that whereas there were plenty of people who had good things to say about JP's professionalism and artistry, there were just as many who got to experience the man behind the mask, and didn't like what they saw. Kudos to them for having the balls to say so.

Besides, Hoskyns is a professional, with vast experience and a reputation to maintain. As such, if he had reason to believe that any of his interviewees were trolls with an axe to grind, he would presumably have omitted any blatantly gratuitous nastiness, or at least balanced it with positive comments from other parties. Yet the consensus concerning JP's personality seems to be overwhelmingly unfavourable - which, when you consider what we already knew, is hardly surprising. After all, nice people don't tend to incorporate Crowleyism into their lifestyles.

In the end, anyone who wanted or expected this to be a sycophantic hagiography is a delusional fanboi/girl, IMO.

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