Mass Shooting at Elementary School Connecticut 12/14/12

[Rock Historian]

I have a basic question: Who exactly needs an assault rifle and / or extended capacity magazines outside of combat troops and police SWAT units? Hunters??? Not unless the deer population rises up ala South Park; one shot, one kill per 99.999% of all game & fish regulations. Home defense? Nope again unless the zombie apocalypse happens and if that is the case, who cares. Taking over or defending against a corrupt government? Not unless you can make a nuclear weapon buddy. So again, who outside of the military and police need these guns?

The undeniable fact is assault rifles and extended capacity magazines MUST be banned, as well as gun shows and sales to anyone with a history of mental illness. A 14 day mandatory waiting period on the sale of ALL guns (again, why does ANYONE need a gun the day they buy it?).

No, guns don't kill people, people WITH guns kill people in mass numbers. If this joker was armed with a knife, maybe two dead. If armed with a single handgun with an eight shot magazine, maybe eight dead. The deciding factor in ALL these mass shootings are assault rifles and extended capacity magazines. Let me tell you, if you have ten dogs and nine are easygoing and one is an asshole, which one do you get rid of? Well, the assault rifles and the clips are the assholes, time to get rid of em.

I've heard of people selling/buying fuckin M16's and UZI's at gun shows...

If you wanna own a pistol for your home, to protect you in the case of a robbery or break-in, I have NO problem with that.

But who one earth, (unless your going to war with the government, or the gang down the street for invading your turf) needs assault weapons of the magnitude.

I understand there are gun collectors and people interested in owning guns like this, even if they never use them-but they shouldn't be sold at gun shows the way they do it.

[SteveAJones]

...no surprise here...

Dianne Feinstein To Introduce Assault Weapons Ban On First Day Of Congress

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/16/dianne-feinstein-assault-weapons-ban_n_2311477.html

[Rock Historian]

And you are assuming that an armed guard, which by the way are not policemen but rent a cops, will have the upper hand. What if the gunman shoots the guard. Hindsight is always 20/20. Not every school district can afford to put an armed policeman at every entry point in every school in every city and state.

OK, so maybe the policeman is the first one shot?? Then he proceeds to kill everyone else. Who knows...If you wanna play that game...what if he stops him after he shoots two people? Then he only kills two, right? Wouldn't you rather have them there, then to NOT, until after the fact? We can play, the "what if" game all day...All I'm saying is, I'd rather be safe then sorry and take that chance/have that resource available, that frankly isn't hurting anyone to begin with. They are there for YOUR safety. I don't understand your way of thinking here. I doesn't jive with me, because I don't get WHY on earth anyone would be against this, unless they have a problem with cops to begin with. The cops are there to protect people or at least do their best at it, or even call for back -up if they are able to. So what's the problem Melanie?

[Leather Apron]

If you're suggesting an armed presence, let alone unarmed, there are numerous liability issues to be resolved. Having said that, I'm not necessarily opposed however, as I said, I believe a covenant between the teachers, parents and students is ultimately the most effective preventative measure. People knew this mass murderering 20 year old was "struggling" for years and did nothing but further isolate him into a home-schooled environment.

I agree.

With the current stress on budgets for both schools and police services, I don't see placing more police resources as something that is viable. Many small cities may only have 3 or 4 officers on duty, but there may be two, three or even more schools in that town if you include private schools (also targets). And then how many classrooms are there in each school? To be effective you would need an armed officer in each classroom. Not going to happen.

But maybe there could be organized volunteer groups made up of retired police, or even parents who act sort of like a neigborhood watch but inside the schools? Same way there are volunteer crossing guards at busy streets near schools. Maybe that would put extra eyes, or an "early warning" system to help.

But then that could also open up the door to for liability in the event that any of these volunteers ever harmed or molested a child. In today's world I could see the sheer weight of rules and regulations, or fear of lawsuits keeping this idea out.

I hope there are lots of ideas, because there aren't always easy solutions. Just look at the mess created post 9/11 at our airports?

[SuperDave]

Listening to a talk show over the weekend, the host said this whole thing is not about gun control. And I agree. Just to let you know, that I am not a gun owner...not that it matters.

All the guns and amo that Adam Lanza's mom has, were obtained legally, so this is not about the gun laws. Perhaps it's a mental issue. Even though, the killer was 20 years old, one should think that it shouldn't be a problem having guns around and having them locked up. But supposedly he suffers from a form of autism (Asperger's Syndrome). Then perhaps, his mom should not have kept the guns around for easy access to him and got him the help that he needs to avoid a horrific situation like this. Perhaps, he was getting help, but we'll find out soon if this was true, as all of the details haven't been reported yet.

So many say the NRA as a lobby is the problem, but did anyone ever consider the pharmaceutical industry in the meds that are prescribed and what they may perhaps do to people. Especially, to someone like Adam. Don't know if he was under meds, but hopefully we'll find out if true and if this contributed to his actions.

There is so much, I think we don't know. I just wish this never happened!

Just the fact that 20 innocent beautiful babies were murdered in cold blood for no apparent reason! Makes me so sad and mad at the same time! Just don't know what to say now!

[SteveAJones]

'I Am Adam Lanza's Mother': A Mom's Perspective On The Mental Illness Conversation In America

Posted: 12/16/2012 9:15 am EST

http://www.huffingto...ref=mostpopular

[Texas Melanie]

OK, so maybe the policeman is the first one shot?? Then he proceeds to kill everyone else. Who knows...If you wanna play that game...what if he stops him after he shoots two people? Then he only kills two, right? Wouldn't you rather have them there, then to NOT, until after the fact? We can play, the "what if" game all day...All I'm saying is, I'd rather be safe then sorry and take that chance/have that resource available, that frankly isn't hurting anyone to begin with. They are there for YOUR safety. I don't understand your way of thinking here. I doesn't jive with me, because I don't get WHY on earth anyone would be against this, unless they have a problem with cops to begin with. The cops are there to protect people or at least do their best at it, or even call for back -up if they are able to. So what's the problem Melanie?

Did you not read what I posted? This is not a game for me! I have two children in public schools. What I am trying to get you to understand is that there are no easy answers.

Armed police= money!! Where is the money coming from? Here in Texas, the school districts are strapped for cash. Parents are already financially supporting school programs.

You make it seem so easy to place armed cops in every school. If you can put this into action then put your money where your mouth is and do something. Until then, we have to make do with limited budgets and limited resources.

[SuperDave]

...no surprise here...

Dianne Feinstein To Introduce Assault Weapons Ban On First Day Of Congress

http://www.huffingto..._n_2311477.html

Definitely Steve. No matter the circumstances they still stick their politics at us. She needs to go! One radio host (in the NYC area) refers to her as Diane Frankenstein. I have to agree that is appropriate, but then again I don't want to take anything away from Frankenstein's Monster as I have much more respect for a monster character from the movies than the former!

[the chase]

There are so many crooked cops out there is incredible. I had one follow my wife and I and a couple home from a restaurnt and lie about why he followed me. A blatant fucking lie. They can get away with whatever they want. I dont like cops. Most of them are ego maniacs.

I am only speaking of experience. I know there are alot of good cops out there. Just not in my neck of the woods

I'm confused. Are there alot of good Cops out there or are most of them ego maniacs?

[SuperDave]

I'm confused. Are there alot of good Cops out there or are most of them ego maniacs?

I think most are good. Just a few bad apples there like any profession. Just think how stressful of a job it must be. Certainly, not easy. Especially, in the cities!

[Leather Apron]

I have a basic question: Who exactly needs an assault rifle and / or extended capacity magazines outside of combat troops and police SWAT units? Hunters??? Not unless the deer population rises up ala South Park; one shot, one kill per 99.999% of all game & fish regulations. Home defense? Nope again unless the zombie apocalypse happens and if that is the case, who cares. Taking over or defending against a corrupt government? Not unless you can make a nuclear weapon buddy. So again, who outside of the military and police need these guns?

The undeniable fact is assault rifles and extended capacity magazines MUST be banned, as well as gun shows and sales to anyone with a history of mental illness. A 14 day mandatory waiting period on the sale of ALL guns (again, why does ANYONE need a gun the day they buy it?).

No, guns don't kill people, people WITH guns kill people in mass numbers. If this joker was armed with a knife, maybe two dead. If armed with a single handgun with an eight shot magazine, maybe eight dead. The deciding factor in ALL these mass shootings are assault rifles and extended capacity magazines. Let me tell you, if you have ten dogs and nine are easygoing and one is an asshole, which one do you get rid of? Well, the assault rifles and the clips are the assholes, time to get rid of em.

Why do private citizens need airplanes? Who needs a car that can drive faster than the posted speed limit? Why do people still own horses? Putting an animal in bondage for the entertainment or pleasure of a human who could use a car, or even better just walk?

Why do stores sell fertilizer, it could be turned into a bomb? Gasoline is dangerous. Chainsaws are dangerous. Children drown in swimming pools. Soda pop causes diabetes. McDonald's make our kids fat.

Why are people allowed to have personal cars when they could ride the bus and save on the use of energy resources? How many times do you see a person driving alone in a big SUV when they could either drive a very small car, or even better use a bicycle?

If you continue going down this line of reasoning then why are people allowed to have hunting rifles? Can't people buy meat at a grocery store? Why do people eat meat?

Why do bad things happen?

Why is there evil?

Who will decide on how we can all be happy, free and safe?

We need more laws. We need more regulations. We need more government involvement.

I have a basic question: what ever happend to the concept that liberty AND personal responsibility are the hallmarks of a free society?

[Rock Historian]

Did you not read what I posted? This is not a game for me! I have two children in public schools. What I am trying to get you to understand is that there are no easy answers.

Armed police= money!! Where is the money coming from? Here in Texas, the school districts are strapped for cash. Parents are already financially supporting school programs.

You make it seem so easy to place armed cops in every school. If you can put this into action then put your money where your mouth is and do something. Until then, we have to make do with limited budgets and limited resources.

Melanie, not be be rude because I like you..I read every single word you wrote-

And I have two kids myself......And I'd hope to God that if there is ever trouble in their schools on a level as this that a policeman or someone with the means/ability to do so, is able to save their life (and others) in time.

I have NO answer to the funding side of things...This is strictly an idea, a simple thought , a possible answer to the madness by using the resources we have available, if it can indeed be funded somehow. There is NO easy answer and I NEVER once said it was Melanie. But isn't that how things start? With an idea, a logical one. What's the alternatives? No guns, cure's for mental illness, or just hope it never happens again? I believe funding for officers in schools would be more within realistic reason, way before a national ban of guns would ever take place. Also, if a few cops were taken off of traffic duty, patrol or other and put in the schools locally, how many police are we talking 10, 20 officers per town, or parish? (in my area they are called Parishes) Some towns may not be equipped with enough man-power to spare that, unless they hire more for the job, which in case would cost money. I think that's a city, town or parish issue, as far as funding. Maybe not a State issue, I don't know. But I'd like to find out, and I will make a few calls, because I wanna know. ( unless someone here truly does)

As I wrote Steve, ask the government or State representatives that question. If we can afford to bail out banks, send money overseas to rebuild nations after wars and natural disasters, then why wouldn't we put aside funding for this? I'm not a government official, so I don't know. But what's wrong with the idea?

Our comments towards one another are based on the notion that you don't think cops should be in schools...my simple question to you is why??? If funding is the only issue you have, then guess what? Your not totally against what I've been saying for the past two or three days after all......

[Leather Apron]

I believe funding for officers in schools would be more within realistic reason, way before a national ban of guns would ever take place.

The fiscal impact which that idea would create does not match the threat level is the simple answer.

[Rock Historian]

The fiscal impact which that idea would create does not match the threat level is the simple answer.

true that it is random...but where do you draw the line? When is enough , enough?

[SteveAJones]

true that it is random...but where do you draw the line? When is enough , enough?

Sorry, but that sounds a lot like "America Declares War On (fill in the blank)"...poverty, drugs, etc.

[Reggie29]

The fiscal impact which that idea would create does not match the threat level is the simple answer.

The fact that there is a threat at all suggests some security measures must be taken.

I see it as a small price to pay given the amount of money spent in other areas.

Surely allocating $10 million (or whatever it would cost a year), to be shared by ALL the counties that could come from the Homeland Security budget which I daresay is many times greater.

What would you suggest specifically in regards to more laws, regulations and government involvement?

[SteveAJones]

Surely allocating $10 million (or whatever it would cost a year), to be shared by ALL the counties that could come from the Homeland Security budget which I daresay is many times greater.

Ten million dollars? I know it's been said never do math in public, but just for the sake of lively debate consider this: There are 16,850 public school districts in the US. Now - so as not to offend anyone in our politically correct culture - let's assume each and every school district (not each and every school) is funded to hire 3 officers. 16,850 districts x 3 hires = 50,550 officers making say $10 an hour for a 40 hour work-week:

Payroll alone is two million, two hundred thousand dollars a week. 2,200,000 x 40 week school year = 88 million dollars.

For those who want to put one cop in every public school I say fine: 99,000 schools x $400 weekly wages x 40 weeks =

$1,584,000,000.00 per school year for payroll alone.

Sure you could split it 50 ways, each state kicking in about $31.6 million however, that's payroll alone for the first year. Haven't even purchased a single uniform, a single radio, a single weapon, a single vehicle or talked about any benefits package.

[Old Shep]

For those who want to put one cop in every public school I say fine: 99,000 schools x $400 weekly wages x 40 weeks =

$1,584,000,000.00 per school year for payroll alone.

Sure you could split it 50 ways, each state kicking in about $31.6 million however, that's payroll alone for the first year. Haven't even purchased a single uniform, a single radio, a single weapon, a single vehicle or talked about any benefits package.

FTFY

As you said, never do math in public

[SteveAJones]

FTFY

As you said, never do math in public

...I do math like the government does budgeting...

[Leather Apron]

Ten million dollars? I know it's been said never do math in public, but just for the sake of lively debate consider this: There 16,850 public school districts in the US. Now - so as not to offend anyone in our politically correct culture - let's assume each and every school district (not each and every school) is funded to hire 3 officers. 16,850 districts x 3 hires = 50,550 officers making say $10

an hour for a 40 hour work-week:

Payroll alone is two million, two hundred thousand dollars a week. 2,200,000 x 40 week school year = 88 million dollars.

For those who want to put one cop in every public school I say fine: 99,000 schools x $400 weekly wages x 40 weeks =

$158,400,000.00 per school year for payroll alone.

Sure you could split it 50 ways, each state kicking in about $316K however, that's payroll alone for the first year. Haven't even purchased a single uniform, a single radio, a single weapon, a single vehicle or talked about any benefits package.

Excellent example, and this is just per school district, not each school. Not to mention how do you spread this security thin enough to actually protect each classroom? Or what about a sniper (no joke intended) taking aim from a building or a tree line? How about on a school bus or at a class outing to a museum?

Besides extra locks, cameras and smarter emergency procedures, people are always going to need to accept that living in a open society there is always going to be risks from these lone wolf suicide attacks.

[joe (Liverpool)]

Pardon my ignorance but why the Fuck don't they stop selling guns???? I was watching the news today about the increase in sales of guns since the latest mass murder. The reporters spoke to some absolute MORON, who was waiting to purchase a semi automatic weapon. When they asked him why, his idiotic response was that they may be banning them, what kind of person is that?. What next? providing children with guns to take to school with them?

[Old Shep]

^ Because it's enshrined in their Constitution, Joe. But the last time I checked, only adult MALES had the right to bear arms. So I don't know what went wrong here.

[Magic Fills the Air]

Pardon my ignorance but why the Fuck don't they stop selling guns???? I was watching the news today about the increase in sales of guns since the latest mass murder. The reporters spoke to some absolute MORON, who was waiting to purchase a semi automatic weapon. When they asked him why, his idiotic response was that they may be banning them, what kind of person is that?. What next? providing children with guns to take to school with them?

America must be a very sad and unhappy society if their need for guns is more important than the lives of innocent children. To a rational outsider, clearly the answer to preventing the heinous crime that happened on Friday from ever happening again isn't more guns. Until they change their Wild West mentality these mass shooting will continue to happen.

[Reggie29]

Ten million dollars? I know it's been said never do math in public, but just for the sake of lively debate consider this: There are 16,850 public school districts in the US. Now - so as not to offend anyone in our politically correct culture - let's assume each and every school district (not each and every school) is funded to hire 3 officers. 16,850 districts x 3 hires = 50,550 officers making say $10 an hour for a 40 hour work-week:

Payroll alone is two million, two hundred thousand dollars a week. 2,200,000 x 40 week school year = 88 million dollars.

For those who want to put one cop in every public school I say fine: 99,000 schools x $400 weekly wages x 40 weeks =

$1,584,000,000.00 per school year for payroll alone.

Sure you could split it 50 ways, each state kicking in about $31.6 million however, that's payroll alone for the first year. Haven't even purchased a single uniform, a single radio, a single weapon, a single vehicle or talked about any benefits package.

I was estimating having 1 or 2 per school and to be honest I didn't know exactly how many schools there were over there.

It would be an expensive exercise.

One way is to roster local cops on one day a week to patrol the schools during school hours. They could even start an hour before and after school to make up an 8 hour day. They are already being paid for doing the job anyway. How many new cops graduate from the academies per year? They could be utilised too. Even if they had to pay overtime it would be negligible. It would be tricky in remote towns with only small forces but if they only had to put on one extra cop it is employment for a local and a valuable resource.

[Magic Fills the Air]

^ Because it's enshrined in their Constitution, Joe. But the last time I checked, only adult MALES had the right to bear arms. So I don't know what went wrong here.

And that's the problem with having a codified constitution. Some aspects of it become outmoded and require change. It's very difficult to implement these changes if they are enshrined in the Constitution.