Mass Shooting at Elementary School Connecticut 12/14/12

[planted]

Wow, I pop out for a few hours and return to find this puddle of pus.

What a thoroughly unedifying spectacle this thread has become. Some of you should be thoroughly ashamed of yourselves.

I understand what you and especially Deborah express, though you both use very different language.

I wish it were different, but it is what it is. I try to get along with everyone, and if I have a problem, I attempt to choose the least confrontational way to deal with it, usually humor, and I hope humility.

People suck sometimes. Including me, of course!

Peace

[Old Shep]

^ You were not one of my 'some', planted.

[planted]

^ You were not one of my 'some', planted.

No, I realize that. I was just chiming in.

[jabe]

Thanks to Sam,et al, for letting this thread follow whatever direction it takes, without taking out long time members.

I've read and can appreciate most eveyone's contribution to this thread.

Mods, continue to give the posters wide berth on such an unbelievable, unfortunate subject.

[SteveAJones]

You already know where I stand, but I'm unclear as to what "solutions" - logical, realistic ones, you think should take place.............besides moving to Japan.

I've discussed a covenant between educators, parents and students, which is an affordable preventative measure given there is no real solution to this problem. Put differently, every citizen has the capacity to be a sensor, particularly with the technology available

nowadays. If 2013 were an election year perhaps the Community Organizer in Chief would favor strengthing school communities instead of inferring he's fine with violating the constitutional right of over 300 million people. Regardless, if someone is bound and determined to go on a murderous rampage there are plenty of soft targets for them to choose from and the fact of the matter is it is cost-prohibitive to put a cop on every corner or in every schoolhouse. That's not giving up, that's the harsh reality of living in a free

and open society.

[scythe]

Blow it out ya ass Major Douche...I'll get ya removed again and again, as many times as your miserable pathetic ass want to hide behind a new identity, and act like you are someone new....if you wanna fuck with me pal. How sorry of an individual are you to have to break into a site that you've been kicked out of more than once or twice? I guess a guy like you has no embarrassment from that, because you just don't give a shit about anything...If you wanna visit here, come with some sense, not blabbering bullshit, because you have a miserable life and nothing better to do but make someone else miserable...ain't gonna happen here-try again, See ya Nick

Whoa dude, chill the hell out, would you? This is fight number ? that you have picked in this thread alone. What's this about Old Shep being a miserable pathetic ass? I've been talking to him since I joined the forum, he seems like a good guy to me. He's made several comments that are relevent to this thread. You, on the other hand, have turned this into a Pro-Police rally thread. Everyone's heard what you've had to say Rock Historian, several times, yet you insist on pushing your Pro-Police agenda. Not everyone agrees with you on everything and because someone disagrees with you, it doesn't make them wrong. Seems to me, if anyone should be "removed" it should be you...

I...I....I what? Come on Rocky, spit it out, man! I'm sure it was just as incisive as your other recent contributions.

I mean, we wouldn't want to miss you obsessing about yourself yet again, in a thread which ought to be concerning itself with loss of ego, now would we?

haha!

Coming from someone that sounds like they have no love for officers or law enforcement whatsoever in the first place I'd expect nothing else from you but to disagree with everything I said. So your statements mean NOTHING to me buddy...

You really do sound ignorant using a few bad cop videos or hurricane Katrina to try and justify a nation-wide example that most cops ARE bad.

What's your motive here, It's doesn't gel...unless your a past convicted felon, or did you have some bad experiences with cops that left you holding a grudge for the rest of your life?

Well if you call being a conscious American and a citizen of this world a motive than that would be mine.

Check and Balances (of power), US Constitution, American History, reality of life in America. Look into these things. I'm done with you, buddy.

[Rock Historian]

^If Old Shep doesn't sound familiar to you..he went by a few other names, before being banned. Major Major being one of the most known identities.

Also, more recently Karma Electra, Balthasar and a few others.

[SteveAJones]

Thanks to Sam,et al, for letting this thread follow whatever direction it takes, without taking out long time members.

I've read and can appreciate most eveyone's contribution to this thread.

Mods, continue to give the posters wide berth on such an unbelievable, unfortunate subject.

It's getting silly now with all the name calling, which is unfortunate as this thread has been one of the most lively exchanges of views

I've ever seen in Ramble On.

[scythe]

^If Old Shep doesn't sound familiar to you..he went by a few other names, before being banned. Major Major being one of the most known identities.

Also, more recently Karma Electra, Balthasar and a few others.

Okay, but how is that relevent to this thread?!

[scythe]

It's getting silly now with all the name calling, which is unfortunate as this thread has been one of the most lively exchanges of views

I've ever seen in Ramble On.

Absolutely! Democracy at work, unless you have those who wish to squelch your right to have your own thoughts and values.

[DavidZoso]

Absolutely! Democracy at work, unless you have those who wish to squelch your right to have your own thoughts and values.

Good Post

[Deborah J]

^^ Hi planted,

We are all imperfect. Everyone of us. We should all be writing our congressmen, The White House, whatever it takes to make some changes. Not arguing with each other at a time like this.

It's good to discuss things, respectfully...and because of that, unless a few people on this thread can grow up I'll just stay away. I think it is disrespectful and sad.

I have been thinking about these children and how blessed I am that my son is with me. I also thought about our Robert and his loss of his son at the age of these children and I am hoping he is getting through this as best as possible. I truly cannot imagine the hurt of any parent having to deal with this.

[jabe]

It's getting silly now with all the name calling, which is unfortunate as this thread has been one of the most lively exchanges of views

I've ever seen in Ramble On.

Fuck yeah, parts are silly. I want people to get it off their chests! Don't contain it!

I had a triple homicide three miles from my house Friday. A 30 year mother, beat to death, her four and five year old sons strangled to death.

A dude entered a cardiac unit at a hospital two miles from my house on Sat, Didn't think his wife was getting adequate care. He was asked to leave, came back with a pistol at 4a.m., shot two hospital employees and a security guard. They will live. Cops came and blew him away on the 5th floor of a cardiac floor in a fucking hospital!

Where the FUCK are we headed?

[Rock Historian]

Whoa dude, chill the hell out, would you? This is fight number ? that you have picked in this thread alone. What's this about Old Shep being a miserable pathetic ass? I've been talking to him since I joined the forum, he seems like a good guy to me. He's made several comments that are relevent to this thread. You, on the other hand, have turned this into a Pro-Police rally thread. Everyone's heard what you've had to say Rock Historian, several times, yet you insist on pushing your Pro-Police agenda. Not everyone agrees with you on everything and because someone disagrees with you, it doesn't make them wrong. Seems to me, if anyone should be "removed" it should be you...

haha!

Well if you call being an American and a citizen of this world, than that would be my motive.

Check and Balances (of power), US Constitution, American History, reality of life in America. Look into these things. I'm done with you, buddy.

Funny, that you jump to take up for a guy who's been banned here more than once or twice for the way he treats and insults people to the lowest level...Mostly inexcusable comments. And he was dealt with accordingly. I'd almost think you've been here before yourself. If you wanna run with him, that's your business.

And so how do you think I should be banned? Have I called your mother any names, have I threatened you, have I made comments to you that are down-right inexcusable??? Not even close...we are having a disagreement on Cops for the most part, and maybe some Constitutional issues. You telling me, you can't handle that?

My problem with you, is NOT you, it's your anti-police problem , that you rant on and on about, but don't explain why-and I just asked you your reasons for that. Never really got an answer, besides that you say they are BAD. I guess it's fair to say you have a major issue with cops, even though you won't discuss it...sound like a personal problem. Just because I have a view, that might involve police protection-in SAVING lives if ever possible doesn't mean you can come here and tell me that MOST cops are bad nation-wide and all that other crap you have to say against them, as FACT.

That's all I've gathered from you, is that your against police...So what is your idea of solving or taking the right steps to prevent this from happening again and again, no matter how random?

I won't get off track with you, or my friend Nick. The issue here is a serious one, and most everyone here is expressing what they think is best for a solution..Including myself.

I don't think you are here to derail the thread or to purposely argue. We just disagree.

[planted]

^^ Hi planted,

We are all imperfect. Everyone of us. We should all be writing our congressmen, The White House, whatever it takes to make some changes. Not arguing with each other at a time like this.

It's good to discuss things, respectfully...and because of that, unless a few people on this thread can grow up I'll just stay away. I think it is disrespectful and sad.

I have been thinking about these children and how blessed I am that my son is with me. I also thought about our Robert and his loss of his son at the age of these children and I am hoping he is getting through this as best as possible. I truly cannot imagine the hurt of any parent having to deal with this.

I wonder how many Americans here know who their Congressman is.

The White House complaint # 202 456 1414.

I'm going to call it a night.

:-)

[Rock Historian]

I wonder how many Americans here know who their Congressman is.

The White House complaint # 202 456 1414.

I'm going to call it a night.

:-)

The offices are closed right now until 9am tomorrow morning. I called a few hours ago, and was told this.

[Rock Historian]

Okay, but how is that relevent to this thread?!

I was directing that at Planted, but somehow I posted it to you. Sorry.

[Deborah J]

^^ I emailed congress, senate and the White House today and to sum it up I will continue until this below this can be answered. This has to stop. This world has moved in the wrong direction when it comes to compassion for our fellow humans that inhabit this earth. I mean nothing but respect, but music has always helped me through things like this

[scythe]

We're headed for some pretty scary shit if we don't change now, Jabe. The problem is weaved into the fabric of our society. This point has been brought up several times in this thread but nobody seems to want to talk about it. Why is that? As LeatherApron said, whatever happened to personal responsibility?

I would have gone into more detail here..but I was interrupted and attacked again, by another post which has absolutely nothing to do with this thread about the great tragedy that occured.

Funny, that you jump to take up for a guy who's been banned here more than once or twice for the way he treats and insults people to the lowest level...Mostly inexcusable comments. And he was dealt with accordingly. I'd almost think you've been here before yourself. If you wanna run with him, that's your business.

And so how do you think I should be banned? Have I called your mother any names, have I threatened you, have I made comments to you that are down-right inexcusable??? Not even close...we are having a disagreement on Cops for the most part, and maybe some Constitutional issues. You telling me, you can't handle that?

My problem with you, is NOT you, it's your anti-police problem , that you rant on and on about, but don't explain why-and I just asked you your reasons for that. Never really got an answer, besides that you say they are BAD. I guess it's fair to say you have a major issue with cops, even though you won't discuss it...sound like a personal problem. Just because I have a view, that might involve police protection-in SAVING lives if ever possible doesn't mean you can come here and tell me that MOST cops are bad nation-wide and all that other crap you have to say against them, as FACT.

That's all I've gathered from you, is that your against police...So what is your idea of solving or taking the right steps to prevent this from happening again and again, no matter how random?

I won't get off track with you, or my friend Nick. The issue here is a serious one, and most everyone here is expressing what they think is best for a solution..Including myself.

I don't think you are here to derail the thread or to purposely argue. We just disagree.

You're attacking me again. This is the sort of thing I've reported people for on other forums in the past.

I think I've done a suffient job explaining my thoughts on police. If you don't get that, that's your problem. It's not my job to educate you, son. And now I'm a banned member? Somebody get this guy a pacifer. I said I'm done with you, bro.

[TypeO]

I’ve been listening to all sides of this debate all weekend. Here’s my two cents:

BACKGROUND: I grew up in a small rural town in the Midwest (pop. 3800). I shot my first gun with my father when I was ten, my dad bought me my first gun (a single shot 12 gauge) when I was 12. The gun was only used during the hunting season (pheasant, quail, duck, rabbits, squirrels). All guns in the house were in a locked gun rack – and dad had the only key. All guns were unloaded and all ammunition was stored in a separate lock box. I used to bring REAL guns to school when we had a class play that needed a firearm in it – it was no big deal. We knew gun safety and the gun was checked each performance to make sure it was unloaded and the empty gun was NEVER pointed at a person. Kids from the farms drove trucks to school with guns mounted in the back – and parked in the school parking lot.

This was in the 60’s, 70’s and early 80’s. There are MANY more gun laws now than there were then, but back then we didn’t have mass shootings and there wasn’t this “fear factor”. The front door to our house was always unlocked if someone was home. Garage door was always left open. There were just as many guns, but they were seen as tools not weapons. Something changed and it isn’t the guns – it’s the mindset of our society.

Now everyone is throwing out these ridiculous “solutions”:

Ban assault rifles: Always a favorite of the gun-ignorant. What IS an assault rifle? Let’s take a look, which of these is an assault rifle that needs to be banned?

WRONG – they are the same gun! The Ruger in the top photo IS THE SAME GUN as the one in the bottom photo. Both are semi-automatic .22 caliber guns – same gun, same fire power. The “hunting rifle’ in the above photo was given a different folding stock, a suppressor on the barrel, a metal body, a tripod mount, a scope and a pistol grip. All COSMETIC changes…other than the magazine clip which instead of 10 bullets in the top photo now holds 35.

So “banning assault rifles” simply means banning guns that look scarier – it doesn’t change their lethality at all! Almost every household in Switzerland as an AUTOMATIC weapon, yet they don’t have the violence we see. So it isn’t the “assault weapons” causing it!

Register all guns: Guns bought from stores and guns how stalls ARE registered. In addition the buyer has a waiting period while a background check is done. LONG GONE are the days when someone could go into a store on a whim and walk out with a gun. And the guns used in the latest school shooting WERE registered and legally bought– how did that law help any? Besides, once that gun is in private hands, it can be sold privately to another individual without a background check or registration in some cases. I have five guns at home (I inherited three when my father passed away) and all were bought before registration was required. I know this is true for MANY guns across the US. And asking everyone to register all their guns now? Well, I would as a law abiding citizen, but the criminal or the nutcase – I’m guessing NOT! So passing this law is fruitless!

Ban all guns: A favorite of the ignorant. It will never happen..never…EVER! Even in the countries with the STRICTEST gun control on the planet – there are still firearms there held by private citizens. Even if you could wave a magic wand and make all guns in the US disappear, they’d be creeping in across the border faster than the bales of cocaine and heroin or illegal workers that currently get through – all of which is illegal to bring into this country!

Mandatory sentencing for crimes involving a gun: That might make the common thief think twice, but adding a 20 year mandatory sentence to the person who plans to kill 18 babies isn’t going to make them change their mind.

My recommendations to help stop the violence: More on the lines of what we did after 9/11 on air travel:

1. Restructure the architecture of soft targets (malls, schools, etc.) Limit entry points. Have security cameras to look not just for shoplifters, but the more suspicious people. In schools have a single entry point, but multiple “Exit Only” doors in case of fire or emergencies. Have those exits alarmed to go off if they are breached. Malls should be redesigned to prevent people going into them unnoticed with large bundles. Construct locking gates and doors that can be remotely activated to isolate the shooter and allow victims to escape.

2. Start a volunteer marshall program for soft targets. We have sky marshalls on our planes - they are trained, armed individuals who can respond if a terrorist gets on board. Do the same for schools and malls. Look for volunteers who WANT to help protect our children. Offer them a strict class with the police department on carrying a firearm. Make them go through a full background check and psychological evaluation. If they pass all three, allow them to carry a firearm and monitor these areas. The criminals wouldn’t know who they are – which makes those soft targets no longer soft! Most of these mass shootings are LONG over before the police arrive – imagine how many lives could be saved if a teacher at that school had been trained and was carrying a firearm at the time of the shooting? Have those volunteers go back each year for re-training on the use of the firearm and re-take the psychological and background checks. This also avoids the “scary” aspect and costs of armed police present in all schools.

3. Limit the clip size: I debated on this one. As a hunter, sometimes you want a clip with more than 6 shots. But 20 or more….unnecessary. Even for home protection, if you need more than 10 shots, you need to practice more target shooting! However, the nut case bent on murder will simply carry multiple 10 round clips rather than one 35 shot magazine. Changing clips takes only a few seconds, so it might not make a big difference. Unless Item 2 above is in place…then a marshall can take them out before they have a chance to re-load!

4. Change the mindset of the phrase “mentally disturbed”: Remember when the term “gay” was kept secret. We are doing the same thing with “mentally unstable”. It needs to be brought out in the open – treated as a sickness. Get these people the mental help they need. Teach people what signs to look for and family members need to get those people help, not ignore or try to hide that person’s affliction. And if you have someone in your home who is mentally unstable, either get rid of your firearms, bows and arrows and other potential weapons or at least keep them locked away and hidden!

That is my rant for the day.

planted,

Thank you for taking the time to read my rant. I fear that you are the only one that took the time to do or people would stop posting ridiculous comments about "assault" weapons!

I made this one point earlier, but like your post - which is much more comprehensive and informative, well done! - apparently no one actually read it!

Everyone continues to blabber on and on about assault weapons.

Great post, Stryder!

[slave to zep]

^^ I emailed congress, senate and the White House today and to sum it up I will continue until this below this can be answered. This has to stop. This world has moved in the wrong direction when it comes to compassion for our fellow humans that inhabit this earth. I mean nothing but respect, but music has always helped me through things like this

i get where you are coming from deb. and i also am very worried about how the world is headed. change is needed. major changes in people - the way we interact with others- it's all going downhill fast.

[scythe]

^There's a slim chance that the world is going to come to an end, but you can surely see why some not so intellectual people could come to that conclusion.

[Rock Historian]

We're headed for some pretty scary shit if we don't change now, Jabe. The problem is weaved into the fabric of our society. This point has been brought up several times in this thread but nobody seems to want to talk about it. Why is that? As LeatherApron said, whatever happened to personal responsibility?

I would have gone into more detail here..but I was interrupted and attacked again, by another post which has absolutely nothing to do with this thread about the great tragedy that occured.

You're attacking me again. This is the sort of thing I've reported people for on other forums in the past.

I think I've done a suffient job explaining my thoughts on police. If you don't get that, that's your problem. It's not my job to educate you, son. And now I'm a banned member? Somebody get this guy a pacifer. I said I'm done with you, bro.

What is your issue? How did I ATTACK you? Because I said you might have been here before? Big deal.That's not an attack at all. It's an open thought that suggest you were a member here before. I never judged you either way, and there are a few banned members here including Rick (LedZeppelinFan77) who openly admits to this, and I have no problem with that guy what so ever. So why so defensive?

I think I answered your post in a respectful way, ending it with that we disagree and I know you mean no harm...So if that's how you wanna continue to be-then I guess there's no common ground here. Let's let it be for the good of the thread.

[Stryder1978]

Thank you TypeO for taking the time to read it. It's an attempt to propose REAL solutions.

[Deborah J]

^^ Hi STZ! I know and it really saddens me to see people behave in this manner. It is time that the USA wakes up and realizes that greed has been put above all else that is decent in this country. More important..than doing the right thing or even LIFE!! Disgusting and heart breaking.