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Mass Shooting at Elementary School Connecticut 12/14/12


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We can argue til the cows come home. I won't change your mind and you won't change mine.

I've been fighting with the anti-gunners since the 70's and will continue.

Shame that I won't change your mind, but I appreciate the heads up! :drinks:

Edited by Dandu
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We can argue til the cows come home. I won't change your mind and you won't change mine.

I've been fighting with the anti-gunners since the 70's and will continue.

Just because some of us don't like people being killed indiscriminately by idiots with guns, doesn't mean we are all anti-guns, only anti-idiots with guns.

The issue is using reasonable force for protection and automatic weapons aren't reasonable in the hands of unreasonable people.

How hard is it to understand that?

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oh it's fine in some areas and a politcal shit hole in others thanks for asking.Like a lot of places paying a hefty price for the banking disasters. And I daresay the majority of us feeling appalled at this latest senseless slaughter.

That sounds alot like the US of A .. We're really not any different.

Trust me on this ... Most, if not all have been walking around like zombies since Friday.. Sad, Shocked, Horrified, Appalled, Pissed off...

You name it, I've felt it and still do.

I had to console a friend of mine at a Christmas dinner the other night.

She was a wreck, shaking, crying and wound up leaving early..

I dropped my youngest Daughter off at School this morning like I usually do..(she's way too cool to take the Bus).

There were 2 police Officers standing by the front entrance. We live in the middle of nowhere. A town of 2500 people with a crime rate of next to zero.. and yes there they were.

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That sounds alot like the US of A .. We're really not any different.

Trust me on this ... Most, if not all have been walking around like zombies since Friday.. Sad, Shocked, Horrified, Appalled, Pissed off...

You name it, I've felt it and still do.

I had to console a friend of mine at a Christmas dinner the other night.

She was a wreck, shaking, crying and wound up leaving early..

I dropped my youngest Daughter off at School this morning like I usually do..(she's way too cool to take the Bus).

There were 2 police Officers standing by the front entrance. We live in the middle of nowhere. A town of 2500 people with a crime rate of next to zero.. and yes there they were.

We had a school mass killing in Dunblane Scotland and the effects of that haven't gone away for that town. Our UK gun laws were changed as a result but they were already very different to those in the US and we don't have a constitution to divide us. It's a sad endightment that police have to guard schools ( that's been discussed ad nauseum on previous threads here over the years, sadly again usually after another mass killing).

But each time it has polarized opinion and will always do so. I see the NRA have made a statement saying how saddened they are by the killings and will make another one later in the week. It will be interesting if that's the right phrase to see what they say. We have no such movement/body over here and because the laws are so different you would probably find that the vast majority of the UK would be more in the anti gun department because guns don't feature so heavily in our day to day lives. And I would hazard a guess that the majority don't want the right to bear arms as they would fear the UK becoming how the US seems to have with so many more gun related shootings and murders. We have often been criticized by some people here on the forum who think we are liberal pussies for not having similar feelings for guns as the US do. I for one am happier with our lack of access to guns but it's all I have known in the same way as it has been for you Americans having guns. You should have heard the outcry in the past when some wanted all of our police forces armed. Only specially trained officers are allowed to carry guns and the majority will be seen at the airports or in London. Sadly some have been shot by our police and have found to have been wrongly shot, there is always a detailed investigation into any shots fired by officers, they have to account for every bullet and action. A couple of months ago 2 police officers were called to a reported burglary in Manchester and some psychopath shot them dead in cold blood. Then handed himself into the police. I guess he just wanted to kill some police regardless of who they were. As it turned out it was two female officers. The whole nation gets to hear about gun murders as it becomes national news and not just local news. That's how it is over here, the nation is often shocked by such events because guns don't feature in our day to day lives. I much prefer being a " liberal pussy".

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Every time a terrible tragedy occurs the gun control debate comes up,guns are not the problem, mental illness is one of the problems especially with the Sandy Hook shooter. I say arm certain school personal,install cameras and lock all doors to keep our kids safe. The Nation is deeply saddened by this and will be for some time. Knee jerk reactions do not help.Why did the mother have automatic weapons around that sick bastard?

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With all the auto accident references...cars contribute to both society and economy in a way that guns do not, and car accidents are just that-accidents. A gun's purpose is to severely hurt/disable, and kill. The two are not comparable.

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UMMM....guns can also be used STRICTLY as a recreational hobby. I know a lot of people that have guins for skeet shooting or target practice but have never "hurt/disable and killed" anything! The challenge they enjoy is bettering their previous score.

It is also an Olympic sport by the way.......

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With all the auto accident references...cars contribute to both society and economy in a way that guns do not, and car accidents are just that-accidents. A gun's purpose is to severely hurt/disable, and kill. The two are not comparable.

Of course they're not comparable, but this is typical of the specious, feeble-minded arguments propagated by the paranoid apologist losers who come crawling out of the woodwork every time something like this happens.

I always wondered: as part of the USA's incredibly stringent gun application process, is there a maximum IQ criterion on the questionnaire? Like, do the gun sellers ever say, 'I'm sorry sir/madam, but you're too smart to own a gun'?

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It's not a question of odds, it's a question of valuing morality over vanity, and not allowing one's paranoia to impinge, whether directly or indirectly, on others' rights to live. It can be argued that the USA fails these tests at both the micro and the macro level.

My question is a question of odds. As for morality, it's just as wrong to shoot innocent people regarless of age as it is children. This remindes me of earlier this year when a so called young atractive female was killed in a motorcycle accident not wearing a helmet. It caused more of an out-cry, for helmet laws, than if it had been your average biker. However if this same female had been hired for impolyment based on her looks it would be called sexism.

Edited by Gospel Zone
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We had a school mass killing in Dunblane Scotland and the effects of that haven't gone away for that town. Our UK gun laws were changed as a result but they were already very different to those in the US and we don't have a constitution to divide us. It's a sad endightment that police have to guard schools ( that's been discussed ad nauseum on previous threads here over the years, sadly again usually after another mass killing).

But each time it has polarized opinion and will always do so. I see the NRA have made a statement saying how saddened they are by the killings and will make another one later in the week. It will be interesting if that's the right phrase to see what they say. We have no such movement/body over here and because the laws are so different you would probably find that the vast majority of the UK would be more in the anti gun department because guns don't feature so heavily in our day to day lives. And I would hazard a guess that the majority don't want the right to bear arms as they would fear the UK becoming how the US seems to have with so many more gun related shootings and murders. We have often been criticized by some people here on the forum who think we are liberal pussies for not having similar feelings for guns as the US do. I for one am happier with our lack of access to guns but it's all I have known in the same way as it has been for you Americans having guns. You should have heard the outcry in the past when some wanted all of our police forces armed. Only specially trained officers are allowed to carry guns and the majority will be seen at the airports or in London. Sadly some have been shot by our police and have found to have been wrongly shot, there is always a detailed investigation into any shots fired by officers, they have to account for every bullet and action. A couple of months ago 2 police officers were called to a reported burglary in Manchester and some psychopath shot them dead in cold blood. Then handed himself into the police. I guess he just wanted to kill some police regardless of who they were. As it turned out it was two female officers. The whole nation gets to hear about gun murders as it becomes national news and not just local news. That's how it is over here, the nation is often shocked by such events because guns don't feature in our day to day lives. I much prefer being a " liberal pussy".

Well I'd rather have them at the schools than pulling someone over for doing 40 in a 35 to make some stupid ticket quota ... I'm sure it was also for reassurance for the kids..

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UMMM....guns can also be used STRICTLY as a recreational hobby. I know a lot of people that have guins for skeet shooting or target practice but have never "hurt/disable and killed" anything! The challenge they enjoy is bettering their previous score.

It is also an Olympic sport by the way.......

stryder i have read all your posts, and have found them quite informative :)

surely if one was serious about wanting to shoot for target practice only, then no bullets would be needed... ?

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stryder i have read all your posts, and have found them quite informative :)

surely if one was serious about wanting to shoot for target practice only, then no bullets would be needed... ?

Target shooting is an Olympic sport for the record. And so too the biathlon. But I have my shotgun because I used to hunt for the meat and I have a pistol for self preservation.

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slave to zep,

Thank you - I try to keep it civil and objective.

I don't understand how you could have target practice or break skeets WITHOUT bullets/birdshot. What else would you fire from a firearm?

Dude, the majority of people who are so stridently opposed to guns have such a lack of understanding, it's incredible.

Many people have no idea what the difference is between semi-automatic and automatic weapons, and many don't even know there is a difference.

They think they are one and the same.

That's one of the biggest problems with the gun debate.

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A couple stories that don't get much coverage, since they don't follow the gun control mania the media is peddling behind the Newtown tragedy.

For everyone who says more people being armed wouldn't make a difference -

Just yesterday - movie theater shooter is shot by off-duty cop.

http://www.theblaze....ith-one-bullet/

Oregon Mall shooting - 3 days before Newtown.

Not much mention of this part - shooter was drawn on by a conceal-carry permit owner, and retreated into stairwell and shot himself.

http://www.infowars....-mall-shooting/

Pearl, MS shooting in 1999 - Principal retrieved his .45 from his car and stopped the shooter from escaping.

http://www.davekopel...incipal&gun.htm

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There seems to be a collective psychosis in the US. A term which has been used a lot in past few days.

Someone mentioned the Brits being uncivilized with regards to fox hunting. This is now banned. In fact the UK has one of the best records for animal welfare.

There's so much insanity in this thread I will leave you yanks to fight it out amongst yourselves.

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There seems to be a collective psychosis in the US. A term which has been used a lot in past few days.

Someone mentioned the Brits being uncivilized with regards to fox hunting. This is now banned. In fact the UK has one of the best records for animal welfare.

There's so much insanity in this thread I will leave you yanks to fight it out amongst yourselves.

Wise decision 'Magic',

they have 'circled the wagons', so no outsider can voice an opinion without being shot down in flames or suffer verbal abuse..

my sympathy goes out to the Parents that have lost a child, and the Children that had to witness such an atrocity...

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This is the mistake so many make about Americans.

You automatically assume we actually care what other people / other countries / "the rest of the world" thinks about us.

We don't.

LOL! This is so true.

This is the problem when debating liberals - they tend to argue emotional concepts as opposed to stark realities.

They love issues that sound great in theory, even if they are entirely impossible to apply to the real world.

Such is the incongruity of the choices you offer me.

Great post!

I'll never understand the mindset which concludes that if you get rid of all the bad things, then bad things won't happen. It's like making a law that bans water so that people won't drown,

But then of course we are the backward ones "clinging to our guns and religion" as one really nice guy once said,

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I live a little more than an hour from Newtown.

If I hear one more person planning to go to gawk at these poor people, I swear my head will spin off.

And the blood sucking media needs to back the fuck off too.

GO HOME AND GET A LIFE!

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That seems to be the underlying theme of SOME gun owners is that they just don't care, period.

Could you please point out any of the gun owners here, or anywhere for that matter, who said they didn't care about what happend to those children? Where was that said?

There are many uncivilised people in ALLcountries, unless you think it is civilised to go around shooting innocent children?

Yeah, I'm almost certain that even we Americans must have some law or regulation written down someplace making it illegal to shoot innocent children.

.

I think the US has managed to piss off many throughout the world, right or wrong, so don't worry too much about making the "whole world" happy.

I wasn't aware that our constitutional rights were subject to a popularity contest.

I've done some research and after studying the second amendment it is an interesting sentence.

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

Yeah, our own supreme court has done some recent research on it too.

see District of Columbia vs. Heller

As I comprehend it, it calls for an orderly army (for want of a better word) to be available in times of strife and that the people have the right to keep and bear arms for only those times when the free state, the definition is not clear, (are they talking about the new country itself as it were?), is threatened.

Anything else would be a criminal offence, no?

No.

see District of Columbia vs Heller

Just out of curiosity, how was your so called "research" of our 2nd Amendment conducted? Something you read in a book?

Edited by Leather Apron
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Could you please point out any of the gun owners here, or anywhere for that matter, who said they didn't care about what happend to those children? Where was that said?

It is the general perception of the attitude of some owners that they don't care about changing the laws to restrict who can and can't get access to high powered guns. I've seen news reports from both sides and they are both are little extreme at times without trying to find some middle ground.

If I thought it was someone on this thread I would've called them out. I didn't imply and certainly wasn't (implying) it was about lack of care for the safety of children.

Yeah, I'm almost certain that even we Americans must have some law or regulation written down someplace making it illegal to shoot innocent children.

Of course you do and again I was making the point that these incidents are not strictly limited to the US and the killing of innocent people particularly children, it is not acceptable by anyone.

I wasn't aware that our constitutional rights were subject to a popularity contest.

That has more to do with foreign policy, where the US help people and get ctiticised for it, often unfairly I might add and nothing to do with the constitution.

Yeah, our own supreme court has done some recent research on it too.

see District of Columbia vs. Heller

No.

see District of Columbia vs Heller

Just out of curiosity, how was your so called "research" of our 2nd Amendment conducted? Something you read in a book?

Here among other sites and I even learned about it when I was at school.

http://www.law.corne...on/billofrights

Edited by Reggie29
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