Rock Historian Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Terrible tragedy, my heart goes out to the parents and families. Can't imagine/fathom the grief and pain associated with this..It's to much for anyone to handle, really. I have two children and one just turned 6 months old. A parent losing their child, to something like this-or to anything for that matter, is something that should not be. It would take a part of life from you forever. Personally, I wouldn't be able to live a happy life any longer. No matter how much counseling and therapy was involved. I really feel bad for those families who have this mountain of obstacles to contend with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planted Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 I was with my teenager when this story broke at about noon EST. She said, and I quote, 'This pisses me off Mom'. Out of the mouths of babes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Historian Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 I think the most effective method is identifying and treating troubled souls and broken minds early on, which may prevent the violence. And how you gonna do that realistically Steve...go door to door on that one too, and have all gun carriers and non-gun carriers checked for any mental issues, from 5 years old -up to 90? The fact of the matter is, it's never gonna happen, which is why I didn't even mention it. That would be a perfect world in that aspect - if it was to be that way. There are many more people than we think, walking the streets, talking to themselves, living under bridges, or even in mansions, or middle class areas with good families, jobs, etc that are mentally unstable. Most or a good majority of people in jail, could be considered mentally unstable....if you kill someone, rape, molest, even steal a car or rob someone at gunpoint, etc-you ARE unstable. So why are they in jail and not in a mental hospital? If that was the answer, sure absolutely it's better than police in schools..but police in schools is not a bad thing, like a few make it sound..I don't get that at all. I'm talking reality, not a wish that won't come true. I know what you mean though. If only it was the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 I think the most effective method is identifying and treating troubled souls and broken minds early on, which may prevent the violence. I agree. We do not do enough to identify troubled people, especially our youth. As fdm12 said earlier, we do not take mental illness seriously enough in this country. Put that along with easy access to firearms and these horrific events just keep continuing. I can't even imagine what is going in the homes of the victims tonight. Start the day like any other and then you lose your child to a senseless, violent act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reggie29 Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Another unnecessary tragedy. My thoughts and prayers are with the victims and there family and friends. Rick mentioned about someone jumping off buildings and committing suicide. Well as long as they don't take innocents with them they are only harming themselves and their families, still tragic but nowhere as much as killing children for no other reason than being at the workplace of the killer's mother. No country is immune to this sort of thing when guns are available regardless of whether by legal or other means. We had an incident at Port Arthur Tasmania (ironically an old gaol) where many tourists were gunned down by an idiot with a SLR, he neither shot himself nor shot by police. He simply gave himself up. Not everyone that does these sorts of things have "mental issues" however, they are certainly act irrational at the time of the incident. What bugs me is the lawyers often play the insanity card in the interests of providing the "best defence. Capital punishment would be a deterrent but it's a fine line where and under what circumstances it could be applied, certainly in this instance it would be apt. When they turn the gun on themselves they get off too easy as there are no other consequences and it is all in vain. Is there gun control in Japan, SAJ? Unless it's just not reported there appears to be no mass shootings there. I seem to recall some loony released gas in the subway opver there some time ago? How inane is the saying, guns don't kill people? Yes, I know people with guns kill people and I also know they are manufactured for that very same purpose and it is up to the owners to take responsibility. I'm just so glad I live in a country where I don't feel the need to own a gun to protect myself but if the day ever comes and I hope and pray it never does, I know how to use firearms with extreme prejudice. I just don't want to be put in that situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Historian Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Yes indeed, and the funding isn't there to treat it either. Meanwhile, society does everything it can to further stigmatize mental illness. The shooter's mother knew he was having problems and expressed her concerns to others. It's not the method, it's the madness. I think people (politicians) ignore mental illness, like it's just a random thing. Man, I will tell you what-They have A LOT of crazy people out there. Whether it's all curable or not is one thing, and there are different levels of insanity and mental disorders, but it's more of a big deal than people want to recognize...until something like this happens again and again. Our Governor, Bobby Jindal just cut some state funding a few months back for mental illness programs...go figure, huh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reggie29 Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 And how you gonna do that realistically Steve...go door to door on that one too, and have all gun carriers and non-gun carriers checked for any mental issues, from 5 years old -up to 90? The fact of the matter is, it's never gonna happen, which is why I didn't even mention it. That would be a perfect world in that aspect - if it was to be that way. There are many more people than we think, walking the streets, talking to themselves, living under bridges, or even in mansions, or middle class areas with good families, jobs, etc that are mentally unstable. Most or a good majority of people in jail, could be considered mentally unstable....if you kill someone, rape, molest, even steal a car or rob someone at gunpoint, etc-you ARE unstable. So why are they in jail and not in a mental hospital? If that was the answer, sure absolutely it's better than police in schools..but police in schools is not a bad thing, like a few make it sound..I don't get that at all. I'm talking reality, not a wish that won't come true. I know what you mean though. If only it was the answer. At one time not long ago our police had temporary stations erected on some of our local school grounds purely for financial and vandalism prevention. It's not surprising how the incidents of vandalism reduced and even disappeared entirely because of their 24/7 presence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Historian Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 At one time not long ago our police had temporary stations erected on some of our local school grounds purely for financial and vandalism prevention. It's not surprising how the incidents of vandalism reduced and even disappeared entirely because of their 24/7 presence. Yes, you see!!!!!! - That's exactly my point Reggie. It's a realistic, effective way of deterring and possibly eliminating problems (big or small) or future incidents like this. Nothing is a 100% guarantee, but it's a proven method that undoubtedly lowers the rate of criminal acts. Why does this sound so unrealistic to people? Thanks for the example...it further enforces my belief in this..(if it has to be) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Historian Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 No one can bear firearms under any circumstance. The only citizens allowed to possess a weapon at any time are police and the military along with those who have a hunting license weighted with a highly restrictive permit. Having said that, Westerners would find there are equally unimaginable social controls put firmly in place. Regardless, for me with the exception of the cost of living I find life in Japan to be nearly utopian as living here means I don't have to live among fearful people in crime-ridden places anymore. Tokyo is the world's safest major city and muggings only occur at the rate of 40 per year per one million inhabitants while New York City's rate is 11,000 http://www.examiner....del-for-america WOW, sounds like a wonderful place to live or even visit Steve. I hope you find all the peace and happiness one can possibly experience there-for however long you plan to stay. "Forever", sounds like a good time frame...huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedZeppfan77 Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 My prayers go out to them all. I mean, just imagine, two weeks before Christmas. Those kids were expecting Santa Claus and the devil showed up. I agree the Mother was totally irresponsible but lets face it, if he didnt get the guns from her, he would have found another way. Someone should have seen the signs with this guy. Someone had to know. I wonder how much the brother knew and when? Or maybe he didnt think he would actually carry it out? But if he was with him when he killed the father he would be an accomplice to the entire horrific event. I feel terrible for those kids and families. Its really shocking also that it happend in Connecticut. I know the old saying that it can happen anywhere, but this is a place where most are very wealthy and well educated. Certainly shocking to me that it would happen there. God be with them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Led Zep Girl Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 It was so horrific, even the first responders will have to have counseling. So, so sad. My prayers & my heart, go out to everyone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Historian Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Forever sounds good to me. You Only Live Twice. I hear ya man.....Is there and end to reincarnation....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedZeppfan77 Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 I wonder how many law abiding citizens in NY State, my state, that have pistol permits, leave their pistols behind when they go into the City? I mean NY City. You are not allowed to carry in the city. If you think I am going to the bronx ever, I assure you I will be packin heat. That is a law that is broken every day in big numbers. I would think I am much safer in Connecticut than in the big apple. And I worry about my daughter all the time as she is in Hoboken. I know there are alot of young professionals moving there now. But, its a stones throw from danger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Historian Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 I wonder how many law abiding citizens in NY State, my state, that have pistol permits, leave their pistols behind when they go into the City? I mean NY City. You are not allowed to carry in the city. If you think I am going to the bronx ever, I assure you I will be packin heat. That is a law that is broken every day in big numbers. I would think I am much safer in Connecticut than in the big apple. And I worry about my daughter all the time as she is in Hoboken. I know there are alot of young professionals moving there now. But, its a stones throw from danger. Rick, there were many times I thought about carrying a small pistol in my truck, because I drive through some not so great neighborhoods everyday. I do a lot of animal rescue/feeding work when I leave my job (on my way home) I feed many stray cats and dogs that live in colonies around the city. The areas I go into are pretty bad.To add, I have occasional Road Rage and it's easy to get caught up in something that will change your life in a second with one wrong reaction. So, in my case, since I am quick to react to something, sometimes without thinking clearly in the heat of the moment, I think it's best I don't carry one in my vehicle. I think having a gun can prevent you from being killed in certain situations but it can also mean death to someone innocent depending on your response/actions. RESPONSIBLE and level-headed is the key word that keeps coming up here and that is the difference between life and death when being in possession of a firearm. As we discussed earlier (above, with a few others) mental illness is a big problem. And it's the reason things like this happen, when you have someone fucked up in the mind with a gun. Anyone who uses a firearm in this way is NOT normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedZeppfan77 Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Rick, there were many times I thought about carrying a small pistol in my truck, because I drive through some not so great neighborhoods everyday. I do a lot of animal rescue/feeding work when I leave my job (on my way home) I feed many stray cats and dogs that live in colonies around the city. The areas I go into are pretty bad.To add, I have occasional Road Rage and it's easy to get caught up in something that will change your life in a second with one wrong reaction. So, in my case, since I am quick to react to something, sometimes without thinking clearly in the heat of the moment, I think it's best I don't carry one in my vehicle. I think having a gun can prevent you from being killed in certain situations but it can also mean death to someone innocent depending on your response/actions. RESPONSIBLE and level-headed is the key word that keeps coming up here and that is the difference between life and death when being in possession of a firearm. As we discussed earlier (above, with a few others) mental illness is a big problem. And it's the reason things like this happen, when you have someone fucked up in the mind with a gun. Anyone who uses a firearm in this way is NOT normal. Rick, there were many times I thought about carrying a small pistol in my truck, because I drive through some not so great neighborhoods everyday. I do a lot of animal rescue/feeding work when I leave my job (on my way home) I feed many stray cats and dogs that live in colonies around the city. The areas I go into are pretty bad.To add, I have occasional Road Rage and it's easy to get caught up in something that will change your life in a second with one wrong reaction. So, in my case, since I am quick to react to something, sometimes without thinking clearly in the heat of the moment, I think it's best I don't carry one in my vehicle. I think having a gun can prevent you from being killed in certain situations but it can also mean death to someone innocent depending on your response/actions. RESPONSIBLE and level-headed is the key word that keeps coming up here and that is the difference between life and death when being in possession of a firearm. As we discussed earlier (above, with a few others) mental illness is a big problem. And it's the reason things like this happen, when you have someone fucked up in the mind with a gun. Anyone who uses a firearm in this way is NOT normal. Well I have more respect for you now more than ever. I just joined ASPCA with a donation and have donated to Noahs Arc and the Humane society also locally. I am a strong animal rights believer and I wish I could do more. Giving my money is the least I can do. I commend you for your work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledzepfvr Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 I tried to express some sentiment of todays horrible event and words just seem to lack any impact or relevance compared to what the survivors are going through. I can't even imagine and hope to never experience this trauma. But one never knows when random evil in this world will blindside and change your course. I can only hope that the survivors can one day find peace in their lives again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the body electric Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Fixed that for you. The powers that be in your country of choice appear to disagree with you. In The Light since 1972. Trampled Under Foot. My life with Led Zeppelin. http://petedelorean.tumblr.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Historian Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Well I have more respect for you now more than ever. I just joined ASPCA with a donation and have donated to Noahs Arc and the Humane society also locally. I am a strong animal rights believer and I wish I could do more. Giving my money is the least I can do. I commend you for your work Thank You Rick, and God Bless you for that. I really mean it. I'll save too many details if I can help it (cause it's easy to get carried away and talk about my love for animals) for another thread. I do TNR, which means Trap, Neuter, Return and Rescue and feeding work. I will just say that I do it all out of my own pocket. I don't ask for help from anyone. I know that sounds a little crazy to devote so much time and money to this, but there is nothing more rewarding than knowing that I can help these animals on the streets that basically depend on me to survive. They don't know that, but I do, and they wait for me everyday to feed them. I got to a point recently where it was a burden on me financially because my wife and I just had a little boy 6 months ago (my second child) and the hospital bills were eating me up...and still are. But things have a way of working out and a local shelter called ARNO (Animal Rescue of New Orleans, which is a great no-kill, non-profit shelter) that I donate free time too, helped me out with some food that lasted me about a month. But like I said Rick, I love all of my animals and it's a great feeling to know I am there for them. I don't miss a day of doing this, rain or shine. And I have a very understanding wife that gives me no shit over coming home late everyday because of this. Rick, I built a cat house in my backyard to shelter the cats I own as pets. It's like Disneyworld for cats. Equipped with A/C, marble floors, insulated walls, Cat ladders, scratching post, litter boxes, food, you name it...it's there. I've also got two Labradors, that I adore with all my heart. I think I told you about the dogs already.....? Sorry to get off of the subject at hand. No disrespect to what's going on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedZeppfan77 Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Thank You Rick, and God Bless you for that. I really mean it. I'll save too many details if I can help it (cause it's easy to get carried away and talk about my love for animals) for another thread. I do TNR, which means Trap, Neuter, Return and Rescue and feeding work. I will just say that I do it all out of my own pocket. I don't ask for help from anyone. I know that sounds a little crazy to devote so much time and money to this, but there is nothing more rewarding than knowing that I can help these animals on the streets that basically depend on me to survive. They don't know that, but I do, and they wait for me everyday to feed them. I got to a point recently where it was a burden on me financially because my wife and I just had a little boy 6 months ago (my second child) and the hospital bills were eating me up...and still are. But things have a way of working out and a local shelter called ARNO (Animal Rescue of New Orleans, which is a great no-kill, non-profit shelter) that I donate free time too, helped me out with some food that lasted me about a month. But like I said Rick, I love all of my animals and it's a great feeling to know I am there for them. I don't miss a day of doing this, rain or shine. And I have a very understanding wife that gives me no shit over coming home late everyday because of this. Rick, I built a cat house in my backyard to shelter the cats I own as pets. It's like Disneyworld for cats. Equipped with A/C, marble floors, insulated walls, Cat ladders, scratching post, litter boxes, food, you name it...it's there. I've also got two Labradors, that I adore with all my heart. I think I told you about the dogs already.....? Sorry to get off of the subject at hand. No disrespect to what's going on here. We probably all need a break from the horrible news, and I think this will make us all feel sad this Xmas. I too love animals and I just saved two kittens and have permanently taken them in. My wife loves them. The old cat is getting used to them. I feed the animals outside all the time. Squirrels, birds, rabbits and all. I do what I can with my limitations. Great to hear that you care and do so much. Sorry to all for going off the topic, its a very sad topic. I recommend we all say a prayer toniight. And on Xmas Eve. I am Catholic so I willl say three prayers from my own faitth. Thanks for sharing RH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scythe Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 The tragedy that occured today, for me, is beyond words, I'm just fucking angry. It's time for people to wake-the-fuck-up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Shep Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Some of the comments above and on the news coverage are saying 'oh, now is not the time to talk about gun control, let's show some respect, let people grieve' etc. Well that's all fine and dandy but how long ago was the last one, and what has been achieved since then? Not very long, and absolutely nothing. I would guess that if you took a straw poll of yesterday's bereaved parents, they would see it as a sign of respect if something serious was done NOW about the shoot 'em up culture, instead of having a phoney period of respect which benefits nobody but the gung-ho meatheads in the gun lobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadecatcher Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Yeah...OK. So I guess having an "officer friendly" presence in schools in a positive way, no matter how major or minor the reason - is a bad, unrealistic idea, right? I thought that's what police do....? Protect and serve, right? Sometimes, they are only a reaction to the crime after the fact, but hey-there is nothing wrong with displaying a presence to possibly deter those who attempt such crimes. I don't think it's that far fetched (that crazy) of an idea. As a matter a fact, maybe you are foreign to this kind of thing, but they already have police officers in some schools in New Orleans (middle schools) where kids have brought weapons in the past. I did some work in one of the schools I'm referring to, for the Electric company I was working for at the time. An officer would be at the door where the students come in, in the morning and do a "pat down" in addition to one of those scanners you see at the airport...Sounds terrible huh? Well, it comes with the territory. It's either that, or have the government officials go house to house an take away every single gun anyone owns....good luck. Take Care There are no easy solutions to the massive societal problem of gun control/ownership. I grew up in Cleveland. I have spent a lot of time In NYC. I have had a gun in my face. I stood next to a detective taking down a suspect with gun drawn on 7th Ave. It changes you. I feel fortunate to have made my home in Canada and to have raised my sons here. There are guns and violence here, but there is a different mindset as to how it is met by law enforcement and citizens. I would hate for my kids to go to school where police pat them down every morning. Something changes in you when you have to fear the place you are educated, or work, or live. Having lived both sides of the border I see America very differently than when I lived there. It will always be home but it was obvious to me that post 911 fear was palpable. I lost my innocence when those towers fell as all Americans did, but keeping people on a knife edge with coloured threat levels can also be seen as manipulation. If someone is fearful enough, they will do anything you say. Really the problem of violence and guns is much bigger than a deranged guy shooting up a school as horrible and senseless as that was. If attention is paid to the cause of a problem, and funds spent on heading off potential violence there would be less need to police people. I do respect your opinion, it simply isn't one that works for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb126 Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 What does one say to little ones to assure them that they are safe and this will not happen to them? I don't know if you can? I know these mass shootings have been going on for a long time, at least since the 1960s, possibly earlier. There is no end in sight and unfortunately increasing in number and incomprehensible aftermath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MollyHendrix Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 This was a wicked act, but this doesn't mean gun control is the answer. It is not the guns that kill people, people kill people. Perhaps we can start there in order to "make the world a better place" if that is even possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planted Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 There has been much discussion on this thread about mental illness. Gang, health care is expensive. Period. And the more this country and its leaders (WHO ARE ELECTED) continue to be irresponsible with power and money, nothing will change. This event is an act of terror, and it wasn't Al Queda. Wake up, America, and stop policing the entire planet. We have our problems to take care of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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