Black Dog versus Tom Sawyer

[Sathington Willoughby]

2 hours ago, Dr Death said:

I have to agree with TheLastSpartan... those who don't get Rush have no idea what they're missing out on. In high school a friend tried desperately for 3 years to get me into Rush, but it just wasn't the right time, for whatever reason. About 10 years later, I was in the record store looking for something new. I came upon Rush and bought A Farewell To Kings. What a great decision that was.

Fast forward to last summer and Rush was coming here and I called my friend who had tried so hard to get me into them and asked if he was going. He said he didn't have a ticket. So I bought two seats and got extremely lucky in finding two GREAT seats in the lower level right by the stage. That night, Rush put on one helluva show! I was amazed.

And for all this crap about them being too technically perfect or Geddy's voice or whatever else I've read... all I can say is you people missed out on one of the best bands. It appears that they are done touring so you'll never get the chance to see them live. Too bad for you. Because they do play with emotion and feeling... they just happen to be freaking amazingly great on their instruments.

That's akin to saying Mozart had no emotion or feeling in his music. Whatever.

As far as songs... try Xanadu... if that one doesn't blow you away then there's no hope.

I hope you meant to quote Amstel... 

[IpMan]

7 hours ago, Dr Death said:

I have to agree with TheLastSpartan... those who don't get Rush have no idea what they're missing out on. In high school a friend tried desperately for 3 years to get me into Rush, but it just wasn't the right time, for whatever reason. About 10 years later, I was in the record store looking for something new. I came upon Rush and bought A Farewell To Kings. What a great decision that was.

Fast forward to last summer and Rush was coming here and I called my friend who had tried so hard to get me into them and asked if he was going. He said he didn't have a ticket. So I bought two seats and got extremely lucky in finding two GREAT seats in the lower level right by the stage. That night, Rush put on one helluva show! I was amazed.

And for all this crap about them being too technically perfect or Geddy's voice or whatever else I've read... all I can say is you people missed out on one of the best bands. It appears that they are done touring so you'll never get the chance to see them live. Too bad for you. Because they do play with emotion and feeling... they just happen to be freaking amazingly great on their instruments.

That's akin to saying Mozart had no emotion or feeling in his music. Whatever.

As far as songs... try Xanadu... if that one doesn't blow you away then there's no hope.

I am a huge Rush fan, HUGE!!! I have seen Rush more times than any other band and I love them. My only critique though is they pretty much play each song note for note, no variation, no improvisation. That is why I love Zep more, every concert was gonna be different and the songs would be expanded, altered. The thing is I believe in the early days they did improv a bit, but from 77' on they were note for note live. If you listen to All the World's a Stage vs. Exit...Stage Left you can see the difference. The earlier release shows a looser, groovier Rush whereas the later is by the numbers. Funny thing is, Geddy Lee was on That Metal Show a while back and even he prefers the earlier release to Exit for that exact reason. Funky.

[nick2632]

I can't believe how many people have bashed Rush in this thread! I have always thought Rush was a pretty damn good band. Not a band I would ever pay $100 to see or anything, but they have some good songs. They don't compare with Led Zeppelin as a band as nobody does it likely ever will, but they have songs that I like more than some Zeppelin songs. Working Man is my favorite Rush song overall and has a pretty killer riff, but the drums in Tom Sawyer are awesome!! The comment about nobody air drumming to Tom Sawyer was stupid because I certainly have. Overall I probably like Black Dog more than Tom Sawyer, but both are great songs, but where Tom Sawyer is my 2nd favorite Rush song, Black Dog is far from my top 10 Zeppelin songs and I still love hearing Black Dog.. That's how great Zeppelin is!!

[Sathington Willoughby]

9 hours ago, Dr Death said:

I have to agree with TheLastSpartan... those who don't get Rush have no idea what they're missing out on. In high school a friend tried desperately for 3 years to get me into Rush, but it just wasn't the right time, for whatever reason. About 10 years later, I was in the record store looking for something new. I came upon Rush and bought A Farewell To Kings. What a great decision that was.

Fast forward to last summer and Rush was coming here and I called my friend who had tried so hard to get me into them and asked if he was going. He said he didn't have a ticket. So I bought two seats and got extremely lucky in finding two GREAT seats in the lower level right by the stage. That night, Rush put on one helluva show! I was amazed.

And for all this crap about them being too technically perfect or Geddy's voice or whatever else I've read... all I can say is you people missed out on one of the best bands. It appears that they are done touring so you'll never get the chance to see them live. Too bad for you. Because they do play with emotion and feeling... they just happen to be freaking amazingly great on their instruments.

That's akin to saying Mozart had no emotion or feeling in his music. Whatever.

As far as songs... try Xanadu... if that one doesn't blow you away then there's no hope.

Seriously, are you sure you meant to quote me? Because I'm not sure where I said I didn't like Rush.

[IpMan]

Sorry if I keep gushing about Rush, but another aspect I just love about the band is how normal and down to earth they all are. Success has never gone to their heads and they are truly nice, kind people. That is a rarity in the music business. It is almost impossible to find virtuoso musicians without Godzilla sized egos but with Rush, you have not one but three extremely talented and extremely humble individuals.

[Kiwi_Zep_Fan87]

Tom Sawyer, by a fuckin' mile! No contest! Rush is my favourite band of all time! No other band has meant so much to me. Rush's music leaves me feeling intrigued and spell-bound. I can relate to the songs on an entirely new and different level, in comparison to all the other 100's of bands (including Queen and Led Zeppelin) that I have had the pleasure of listening to, through the decades! Rush's incredible sound, truly captured what I strongly felt, was missing from my music collection for so long and yes, sometimes, it truly scares me that I actually almost missed out on their music, having only discovered them in June, last year! My love for the band has exploded and right now, I am currently exploring  their albums from the 1980's and works like Signals and Grace Under Pressure, are fascinating me, no end! 

Honestly, I feel really sorry for all those poor souls out there, who declare that they just don't get it! These people have absolutely no idea how much they are missing out on! Such a pity! For starters, go and listen to songs like Xanadu, The Necromancer, The Fountain of Lamneth, Bastille Day, A Farewell To Kings, The Trees, By-Tor And The Snow Dog, Anthem, Beneath, Between and Behind, In The End, 2112, A Passage To Bangkok, Something From Nothing, La Villa Strangiato, The Trees, Cirumstances, Cygnus X-1, Natural Science, Freewill, Spirit of The Radio, Entre Nous, Tom Sawyer, Red Barchetta, Vital Signs, Limelight, Red Sector A, Between The Wheels, The Enemy Within and Afterimage. If you still don't get it, then I have nothing to say to you!

Last word on my post, gushing about Rush: I firmly and strongly believe that they did make amazing albums, even after Moving Pictures!!! Go check out albums such as Signals, Grace Under Pressure, Roll The Bones, Test For Echo, Counterparts, Vapor Trails and Clockwork Angels! 

[Kiwi_Zep_Fan87]

12 hours ago, Dr Death said:

I have to agree with TheLastSpartan... those who don't get Rush have no idea what they're missing out on. In high school a friend tried desperately for 3 years to get me into Rush, but it just wasn't the right time, for whatever reason. About 10 years later, I was in the record store looking for something new. I came upon Rush and bought A Farewell To Kings. What a great decision that was.

Fast forward to last summer and Rush was coming here and I called my friend who had tried so hard to get me into them and asked if he was going. He said he didn't have a ticket. So I bought two seats and got extremely lucky in finding two GREAT seats in the lower level right by the stage. That night, Rush put on one helluva show! I was amazed.

And for all this crap about them being too technically perfect or Geddy's voice or whatever else I've read... all I can say is you people missed out on one of the best bands. It appears that they are done touring so you'll never get the chance to see them live. Too bad for you. Because they do play with emotion and feeling... they just happen to be freaking amazingly great on their instruments.

That's akin to saying Mozart had no emotion or feeling in his music. Whatever.

As far as songs... try Xanadu... if that one doesn't blow you away then there's no hope.

Brilliant post, Dr. Death! You have perfectly captured everything that I have been feeling about Rush!  

Oh and just so you know, Sathington Willoughby (whose post you quoted while making your post about Rush) happens to be a huge fan of the band, especially of their progressive rock albums from the 1970's!  

[Sathington Willoughby]

10 hours ago, Kiwi_Zep_Fan87 said:

Brilliant post, Dr. Death! You have perfectly captured everything that I have been feeling about Rush!  

Oh and just so you know, Sathington Willoughby (whose post you quoted while making your post about Rush) happens to be a huge fan of the band, especially of their progressive rock albums from the 1970's!  

Thanks, I wondered why I was getting lectured on one of my favorite bands! 

[Dr Death]

4 hours ago, Sathington Willoughby said:

Thanks, I wondered why I was getting lectured on one of my favorite bands! 

I wasn't "lecturing" you, I simply quoted your post because it was the last one and it was also short. Nowhere in my post did I mention you or "lecture" you.

[ScarletMacaw]

Can't stand "Tom Sawyer." Tuneless. "Black Dog" by a country mile.

Is this the Led Zeppelin fansite?

Edited March 7, 2016 by ScarletMacaw
forgot something

[IpMan]

19 minutes ago, ScarletMacaw said:

Can't stand "Tom Sawyer." Tuneless. "Black Dog" by a country mile.

Is this the Led Zeppelin fansite?

Tom Dog? Black Sawyer???

[in_the_evening]

Like another poster, Black Dog was how I was introduced to Zep, though I imagine I had heard Stairway at some point already.  I was sheltered, didn't hear BD until maybe late 70's.

To me, it's not even close, the winner is BD.  With Bonzo's frantic runup/fill after Plant's "Ah Ah Ah Ah Ahhhhhhhh", to the incredibly powerful start/stop riff, and the amazing solo during fadeout....Black Dog takes it.

 

[Balthazor]

On 12/25/2012 at 3:27 AM, Old Shep said:

Sorry, no.

 

Rush are still going, but if in fact they ever had anything original or valid to say (which is highly debatable), they'd said it all by 1981, and they've spent the past 30 yrs treading water in a sea of mediocrity.

 

Five years of 'quite-goodness' in a career spanning 40 yrs is not the mark of a great band. IMO.

What he said. I think the first six albums were great, and the next couple had moments of greatness. But for decades they have been, as Old Shep said, treading water in a sea of mediocrity.

Moreover, while Rush was an excellent band, they were never a particularly innovative band. In the 70's they played the same hard rock as Led Zeppelin, tinged with some of the kind of prog that Yes and Genesis were doing. In the 80's they switched to synth pop, since that's what was popular, at least until they decided they wanted to sound exactly like The Police. Then in the 90's when "grunge" hit big, surprise surprise Rush decides to move back to a guitar-driven sound. While they were always excellent at what they did, what they did was always pretty much the same as what everyone else did.

In a way, I think Alex Lifeson personifies this. I think Lifeson is a great guitarist, and way underrated. That dude could play just about anyone under the table. But at the same time, what did he actually do? Guys like Page, Clapton, Beck, Hendrix, Allman, Blackmore, Iommi, Van Halen, Rhoads, these guys each pioneered a style which shaped and defined the sound of rock guitar forever. What did Lifeson do? He just played real well. That's pretty much the legacy of Rush. A band that played real well. Oh, and inspiring dreck like Dream Theater and Dragonforce. Thanks, Rush, for that.

That said, as far as the poll goes, I'd probably prefer to hear Tom Sawyer over Black Dog, because Black Dog has always been one of my least favorite Zeppelin tunes.

[Balthazor]

On 3/6/2016 at 10:14 PM, nick2632 said:

I can't believe how many people have bashed Rush in this thread!

Just my opinion mind you, but I think Rush has this relatively small but extremely rabid fan base who appear to think that Rush is the greatest band in the history of ever. Which is fine, everyone is entitled to their opinions. But most people outside of that rabid fan base don't see Rush as being even remotely close to the same league as Led Zeppelin or The Rolling Stones or the Beatles or The Who or any of the other truly legendary bands which literally shaped rock and roll. But yet every discussion about any of the aforementioned bands inevitably brings forth Rush fans asserting that their band is at least as good, if not better. Which, to fans of the aforementioned bands, looks a little like a Harry Potter fan insisting that J.K. Rowling could write circles around William Shakespeare. Just calling it like I see it.

[Sathington Willoughby]

55 minutes ago, Balthazor said:

Just my opinion mind you, but I think Rush has this relatively small but extremely rabid fan base who appear to think that Rush is the greatest band in the history of ever. Which is fine, everyone is entitled to their opinions. But most people outside of that rabid fan base don't see Rush as being even remotely close to the same league as Led Zeppelin or The Rolling Stones or the Beatles or The Who or any of the other truly legendary bands which literally shaped rock and roll. But yet every discussion about any of the aforementioned bands inevitably brings forth Rush fans asserting that their band is at least as good, if not better. Which, to fans of the aforementioned bands, looks a little like a Harry Potter fan insisting that J.K. Rowling could write circles around William Shakespeare. Just calling it like I see it.

Rush is way better than the Who.

[The Rover 75]

I enjoy Rush's music, I saw them a long time ago, in the 70's & it was amazing.

There is no way I would say LIfeson is a great guitarist, but I would say Geddy Lee is a great bass player.

[IpMan]

I believe they are all three virtuoso musicians in their own right, however I do agree, Alex never really developed his own "sound." Neal & Geddy do have their own, unique sound but unfortunately not Alex.

[Badgeholder Still]

1 hour ago, IpMan said:

I believe they are all three virtuoso musicians in their own right, however I do agree, Alex never really developed his own "sound." Neal & Geddy do have their own, unique sound but unfortunately not Alex.

So who exactly is Alex copping in "La Villa Strangiato"? He was a pioneer of merging styles, sounds and effects. He was always growing and changing while sounding like Alex Lifeson. He's unmistakable.

[Balthazor]

11 hours ago, Sathington Willoughby said:

Rush is way better than the Who.

I would actually agree with that, but I think most people probably wouldn't.

[ScarletMacaw]

Alex Lifeson is  a good guitarist, and I enjoy many of the band's tunes, but their body of work in no way compares to Zep, Sabbath, the Who or the Rolling Stones:

1. Did Rush write an entire rock musical like "Tommy"? no.

2. Did Rush help spawn an entire subgenre of rock music as Black Sabbath did? no.

3. Did Rush incorporate numerous musical styles, including folk, reggae, jazz and Eastern music,  in their songs as did Zeppelin? no.

4. Did Rush consistently turn out numerous albums with catchy tunes over a period of decades as did the Rolling Stones? no. The average rock fan can hum probably five Rush songs.

5. Did Rush include a sex symbol like Mick Jagger or incite a massive bootleg obsession as did Zeppelin? no.

Case closed.

[Sathington Willoughby]

2 hours ago, ScarletMacaw said:

Alex Lifeson is  a good guitarist, and I enjoy many of the band's tunes, but their body of work in no way compares to Zep, Sabbath, the Who or the Rolling Stones:

1. Did Rush write an entire rock musical like "Tommy"? no.

2. Did Rush help spawn an entire subgenre of rock music as Black Sabbath did? no.

3. Did Rush incorporate numerous musical styles, including folk, reggae, jazz and Eastern music,  in their songs as did Zeppelin? no.

4. Did Rush consistently turn out numerous albums with catchy tunes over a period of decades as did the Rolling Stones? no. The average rock fan can hum probably five Rush songs.

5. Did Rush include a sex symbol like Mick Jagger or incite a massive bootleg obsession as did Zeppelin? no.

Case closed.

1. 2112?

2. Pretty influential.

They have been cited as an influence by various musical artists, including Anthrax,^[93] Foo Fighters,^[94] Metallica,^[95] Primus,^[96] Rage Against the Machine,^[97] and The Smashing Pumpkins,^[96] as well as progressive metal bands such as Prototype, Dream Theater^[95] Puya^[98] and Symphony X.^[99] Trent Reznor considers Rush to be one of his favourite bands in the 2010 documentary Rush: Beyond the Lighted Stageand has particularly cited the album Signals as a major influence on how to incorporate keyboards and synthesizers into hard rock.

3. Yes

Musical style and influences[edit]

Rush's musical style has changed substantially over the years. Its debut album was strongly influenced by British blues-based hard rock: an amalgam of sounds and styles from such rock bands as Black Sabbath, the Who, Cream and Led Zeppelin.^[9][83][84] Rush became increasingly influenced by bands of the British progressive rock movement, especially Genesis (Peter Gabriel era) and Jethro Tull, as Geddy Lee is a fan of both bands.^[85][86] In the tradition of progressive rock, Rush wrote extended songs with irregular and shifting time signatures, combined with fantasy and science fiction-themed lyrics. In the 1980s, Rush successfully merged their sound with the trends of this period, experimenting with new wave, reggae and pop rock.^[87] This period included the band's most extensive use of instruments such as synthesizers, sequencers, and electronic percussion. In the early 1990s, the band transformed their style once again to harmonize with the alternative rockmovement.^[88]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_(band)#Musical_style_and_influences

4. Yes

5. What does sex symbols have to do with being a great band? Pretty strong demand for Rush bootlegs.

 

Edited March 8, 2016 by Sathington Willoughby

[Balthazor]

2 hours ago, Sathington Willoughby said:

2. Pretty influential.

While I would agree that Rush has been "pretty influential", that list doesn't really make the most convincing case.

[Sathington Willoughby]

1 hour ago, Balthazor said:

While I would agree that Rush has been "pretty influential", that list doesn't really make the most convincing case.

Maybe to you.  (I was expecting some comments of this sort)

Edited March 8, 2016 by Sathington Willoughby

[Stairway is NOT stolen]

Neither. I'm kinda a bit bored of both.

[Balthazor]

24 minutes ago, Sathington Willoughby said:

Maybe to you.  (I was expecting some comments of this sort)

Well when the first name on the list is Anthrax, it doesn't bode well. I expect there's many more (and better) bands that were influenced by Rush than appear on that list. It's just a pretty crummy list.