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Another senseless shooting, in my neck of the woods


LedZeppfan77

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This thread may now be beyond redemption - what with ketchup and all - but there's a further point to make, which has been recently raised by commentator David Frum on CNN.

While many in the pro-gun camp say that they need weapons to protect themselves from "bad guys," a lot of gun violence occurs between relatively law-abiding people. Neighbors arguing about a noisy party; a motorist pissed off because another driver cut him off; a heated family shouting match; a "suspicious" pedestrian in an area where he doesn't seem to belong; testosterone-infused teens showing off; jealous spouses; et cetera. And let's not forget how many young males have shot and killed each other over a couple hundred dollars' worth of weed or coke - but we can also blame the ridiculous War on Drugs for those.

If Al-Qaeda terrorists, zombies, or the Charles Manson family were roaming around the country and breaking in on innocent people's homes, then the necessity of "good guys" being able to defend themselves would indeed be an urgent one. But it turns out that guns are more often used to escalate minor situations which would have otherwise ended in verbal threats and insults, pushes and shoves, hurt feelings, or - perish the thought - a call to the local police.

In other words, the notion that America's current gun laws can only benefit decent citizens by protecting them from wanton criminals is more of a self-serving NRA myth than a realistic presentation of their practical effects on the street, in private residences...and in school classrooms.

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Besides, it is true, we do need more gun control. Of course we don't need to outlaw guns, but more gun control makes sense.

Just like anti-smoking laws? Remember when there were (reasonable) 'smoking or non-smoking' sections? Once the smoke nazi's got their foot in the door smokers are now treated like lepers.

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This thread may now be beyond redemption - what with ketchup and all - but there's a further point to make, which has been recently raised by commentator David Frum on CNN.

Gotta love a guy who bashes people as being FOX News robots, and then cites a CNN hack like David Frum.

Or one who embraces excessive hyperbole to drive home his point, no matter how flawed the premise may be, yet frets and alludes to possible mental derangement when another person uses equally excessive hyperbole to make their point.

Sorry, dude, but your blatant double-standard is showing.

While many in the pro-gun camp say that they need weapons to protect themselves from "bad guys," a lot of gun violence occurs between relatively law-abiding people. Neighbors arguing about a noisy party; a motorist pissed off because another driver cut him off; a heated family shouting match; a "suspicious" pedestrian in an area where he doesn't seem to belong; testosterone-infused teens showing off; jealous spouses; et cetera. And let's not forget how many young males have shot and killed each other over a couple hundred dollars' worth of weed or coke - but we can also blame the ridiculous War on Drugs for those.

If Al-Qaeda terrorists, zombies, or the Charles Manson family were roaming around the country and breaking in on innocent people's homes, then the necessity of "good guys" being able to defend themselves would indeed be an urgent one.

Because an intruder(s) is not "an Al-Qaeda terrorist, zombie or member of the Charles Manson family" doesn't make him (or them) any less dangerous to you and your family's safety, so the scenarios you pose as likely are actually unrealistic and insulting.

Your biased perspective on crime in our country is ridiculously self-righteous and uninformed.

You glibly refer to zombies in an attempt to mock and marginalize legitimate problems that we face in our country, yet, ironically, zombie is a actually a pretty accurate description of the hordes of people who are addicted to meth - scabs and sores all over their face and body, rotted teeth and glazed-over eyes - that are arrested daily across the country for crimes that push the limits of the description bizarre.

And kicking in the backdoor of a random home in hopes of finding $40 or $50 to keep their 3-day bender going is hardly a stretch of reasonable possibility.

And the best part about meth? (I'm being facetious, lest you fret about me holding the opinion that meth is good.)

It's right here in the middle of suburbia.

A rental house on the next block could be a lab cooking up gallons of the shit every day.

In other words, the notion that America's current gun laws can only benefit decent citizens by protecting them from wanton criminals is more of a self-serving NRA myth than a realistic presentation of their practical effects on the street, in private residences...and in school classrooms.

No more than the self-serving myth that disarming law-abiding citizens will make them safer from criminals.

Also, explain how gun laws would have changed the outcome in Newtown, CT?

Especially in consideration of the fact that the school was a gun-free zone, and Connecticutt already has an existing assault weapons ban.

Or do you favor the total banishment of all guns and weapons?

Just curious.

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If Al-Qaeda terrorists, zombies, or the Charles Manson family were roaming around the country and breaking in on innocent people's homes, then the necessity of "good guys" being able to defend themselves would indeed be an urgent one.

If Sharon Tate and her house guests had been armed then just maybe they would have been saved from being carved up my deranged hippie murderers. If Leno Labianca had greated his attackers with a firearm; he might have saved his life and that of his wife too.

It is not up to you to say who has a right to defend themeselves. Our 2nd Amendment secures that right. But even without the 2nd Amendment, I have a human right to self defense. Even if guns are banned; I have a moral right and obligation to obtain them and keep them for my own safety. You have that right too... if you don't exercise it then that is on you

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This thread may now be beyond redemption - what with ketchup and all -

Lots of people in the UK call it tomato sauce and lots call it ketchup. It was just a poor attempt at point scoring by some who just couldn't accept the concept.

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^ The two terms have always been interchangeable to me. Typo was just being cheap and tiresomely pedantic, as usual.

Besides, we don't use that 'tomato sauce' crap over here. Passata, I think they call it here? It's rubbish, you should use tinned tomatoes instead.

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^ The two terms have always been interchangeable to me. Typo was just being cheap and tiresomely pedantic, as usual.

Besides, we don't use that 'tomato sauce' crap over here. Passata, I think they call it here? It's rubbish, you should use tinned tomatoes instead.

Some passata is good but nothing wrong with tinned tomatoes.

I defend the right to call ketchup "tomato sauce"

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^ The two terms have always been interchangeable to me.

Oh, well I guess that settles it.

Typo was just being cheap and tiresomely pedantic, as usual.

Actually, I've never heard the term used for ketchup, before, and I've never been to the UK.

Your response of BULLSHIT challenging my assertion we don't put "tomato sauce" on hot dogs is what prompted my intentionally pedantic response, replete with examples.

I defend the right to call ketchup "tomato sauce"

It was a mistake of semantics on my part.

It could just as easily go the other way towards you with me using a word or phrase with a different meaning there.

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So shootings are only senseless when the victims are innocent?

Shooting firefighters with no motive with a dead body in your fucking house is not senseless? You are senseless. This guy beat his grandmother to death with a baseball bat and did 18 yrs. He never should have been let out. I think he burned 6 houses to the ground and killed two firefighters and wounded others. That is what this thread was about MM.

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Oh, well I guess that settles it.

Actually, I've never heard the term used for ketchup, before, and I've never been to the UK.

Your response of BULLSHIT challenging my assertion we don't put "tomato sauce" on hot dogs is what prompted my intentionally pedantic response, replete with examples.

It was a mistake of semantics on my part.

It could just as easily go the other way towards you with me using a word or phrase with a different meaning there.

I would have done it jokingly and not made a big deal out of it as there are many differences between descriptions of everyday items etc between the UK and the US. Amazing how sauce/ketchup can separate nations online.

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