Jimmy Page & The Black Crowes

[PeaceFrogYum]

20 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

I take the alleged conversation with Chris Robinson with a grain of salt. If true, Page would NOT come across really well for me at all, rather a man who acted like a petulant child. 

 

Well that depends. If Page was truly suffering with back pain and what kept him going on tour was the perceived camaraderie and shared vision, only to find out the two main guys in the band did not share that vision. Well, maybe Jimmy figured the pain is too great to force himself out there for two guys who really did not care one way or the other. However, if Chris Robinson simply wanted to finish the tour and then reevaluate, then yes, Jimmy would come off as rather insincere. Through everything which has been reported about the Robinson Bros. I would have to go with the former, rather than the latter excuse but at this point it is all conjecture.

[jmorton]

6 hours ago, PeaceFrogYum said:

Well that depends. If Page was truly suffering with back pain and what kept him going on tour was the perceived camaraderie and shared vision, only to find out the two main guys in the band did not share that vision. Well, maybe Jimmy figured the pain is too great to force himself out there for two guys who really did not care one way or the other. However, if Chris Robinson simply wanted to finish the tour and then reevaluate, then yes, Jimmy would come off as rather insincere. Through everything which has been reported about the Robinson Bros. I would have to go with the former, rather than the latter excuse but at this point it is all conjecture.

It was a conversation with Rich apparently. Also I suggest everyone read the book. Theres about 4 chapters on the Page/Crowes tour alone and they are really fascinating. A great insight into how the tours came together and how Pete Angelus really helped Page mend his back in LA. A great anecdote about Jimmy standing poolside drinking Evian that Gorman has.

I'd recommend the book anyway. It is full of amazing stuff about Robert Plant as well and it's clear Gorman has a big admiration for BOTH men. Fancy that.

[SteveAJones]

On 10/1/2019 at 12:08 AM, PeaceFrogYum said:

Well that depends. If Page was truly suffering with back pain and what kept him going on tour was the perceived camaraderie and shared vision, only to find out the two main guys in the band did not share that vision. Well, maybe Jimmy figured the pain is too great to force himself out there for two guys who really did not care one way or the other. However, if Chris Robinson simply wanted to finish the tour and then reevaluate, then yes, Jimmy would come off as rather insincere. Through everything which has been reported about the Robinson Bros. I would have to go with the former, rather than the latter excuse but at this point it is all conjecture.

From the onset of back injury to postponement/cancellation of the tour was two days. They did fulfill their commitment to perform on 'The Tonight Show with Jay Leno' on the afternoon of Mon, Aug 14, 2000 in the meantime. The whole partnership was a marriage of convenience. Jimmy may have gotten seduced by how well it worked on stage such that he thought they could take it another level, and that's reasonable, but it just wasn't meant to be. Timing is everything they say, and if that particular conversation did coincide closely with the INJURY I can see how it prompts him walk away. Once that occurred, and it became an insurance settlement case, it would no longer be possible to save the UK & Japan dates planned for that Nov/Dec even if anyone had wanted to make the attempt.

[jmorton]

21 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

From the onset of back injury to postponement/cancellation of the tour was two days. They did fulfill their commitment to perform on 'The Tonight Show with Jay Leno' on the afternoon of Mon, Aug 14, 2000 in the meantime. The whole partnership was a marriage of convenience. Jimmy may have gotten seduced by how well it worked on stage such that he thought they could take it another level, and that's reasonable, but it just wasn't meant to be. Timing is everything they say, and if that particular conversation did coincide closely with the INJURY I can see how it prompts him walk away. Once that occurred, and it became an insurance settlement case, it would no longer be possible to save the UK & Japan dates planned for that Nov/Dec even if anyone had wanted to make the attempt.

The conversation was spurred on by Pete Angelus who was in discussions with Curbishly and Page about continuing the partnership. Apparently the band was aware (according to Gorman) that there was this next step but no one in the band other than Rich was aware the conversation took place until Jimmy told Gorman in 2002.  Page approached Rich who basically brushed him off and then things came to a sudden end. In fact Gorman's description of the Tonight Show performance was fascinating because of how different Page was as opposed to the day before when he was happy, jovial, and wanting to continue the tour thanks to Angelus' doctor friend. Page had back surgery shortly after arriving back in England.

Also, I think we can thank Pete Angelus and his doctor friend who worked on Page's back for Jimmy quitting drinking permanently. At least that is what I can infer from Gorman's book. It's a fascinating section that I think all Zep fans should read considering it was Jimmy's last ever tour.

Edit: Additionally Pete Angelus kind of sprung the recording of the Greek Theater concerts on Page at the last moment and Gorman goes into great detail about how uneasy that made Jimmy and how reluctant he was to record it.

Edited October 2, 2019 by jmorton

[luvlz2]

Black Crowes Drummer Steve Gorman's New Book: 7 Wildest Tales About the Band

'Hard to Handle: The Life and Death of the Black Crowes' paints a picture of a group in constant turmoil

By JOSEPH HUDAK

"At the very least," Steve Gorman writes in his new tell-all about the Black Crowes, "I can tell you what happened from my point of view." As the band's drummer since its nascent days as Mr. Crowe's Garden up until the Black Crowes' implosion in 2014, Gorman has seen his share of rock & roll drama from behind the kit. In Hard to Handle: The Life and Death of the Black Crowes -- A Memoir, written with Steven Hyden, he distills his 27 years with the group into a satisfying and unexpectedly emotional read.

From onstage fights between the famously quarreling Robinson brothers, singer Chris and guitarist Rich, to backstage run-ins with Aerosmith on the Crowes' first major tour, Gorman paints a picture of a band that just couldn't get out of its own way. More often than not, fractures involved money and control, along with a large helping of ego -- which Gorman says scuttled the band's tour with Jimmy Page, sending the Led Zeppelin guitarist hurrying back to London.

Eventually, Gorman had enough. After one glass-breaking altercation between the siblings, he determined to quit. "I wanted to kill both of them," he writes. "I wanted to kill the Black Crowes."

Here are seven of the wildest tales in Gorman's account of one of rock's most dysfunctional bands.

1. After the band signed with Rick Rubin's Def American label, the producer asked them to change their name to Kobb Kounty Krows -- K.K.K.

Rubin didn't like the group's original name of Mr. Crowe's Garden, and he suggested a moniker that both nodded to the Robinson brothers' home state of Georgia and was provocative. Attention-grabbing or not, the allusion to the Klan didn't sit well with the band. "How about we kick your ass right here in this bar tonight? That'll get some attention,' Gorman recalls Chris Robinson threatening Rubin. In the end, the band changed its name, fortunately to the Black Crowes.

2. Gorman once tried to kick Liam Gallagher's ass for slagging the Crowes onstage at Glastonbury.

When Oasis played Glastonbury in 1995, Gorman was watching side stage after the Black Crowes' set when he heard -- or thought he heard -- Liam Gallagher say to the crowd, "It's nice to get that silly Southern shit out of the way so you can hear some real music.' Incensed, and admittedly drunk, Gorman forced his way into Oasis' backstage trailer with a bottle of Jack Daniel's and waited for Gallagher to come offstage. "This fucking kid is about to learn more than he ever wanted to about silly Southern shit," Gorman writes. Cooler heads in the Crowes camp prevailed and persuaded the drummer to leave, but Gorman asked Liam about the insult six years later when the Crowes toured with Oasis. "What? No!" Gallagher said. "I thought it was a proper fucking rock band."

3. Not interested in partying with his bandmates after a triumphant gig in New Orleans, Rich Robinson broke Gorman's cardinal rule of touring: He drove home in the bus without the rest of the band.

According to the drummer, he, Chris, and the rest of the Crowes wanted to see Peter Holsapple play a solo set across the town after their own gig ended. Rich wanted to head immediately back to Atlanta. Reaching a compromise, they planned to meet Rich at the bus at 2 a.m. to head home. But when they arrived, both Rich and the band bus were gone. "Even Chris, on his worst fucking day, would never take the bus," Gorman writes. "That's never happened in the history of bands. It's unforgivable." Rich never apologized, says Gorman. Instead, the guitarist asked the band to get him his own bus.

4. Gorman was witness to some epic fights between the Robinson brothers, including one in San Antonio where he feared they'd actually kill each other.

The incident started when Chris tried to get his brother to play more cover songs in the Crowes' set. At first, they just hurled insults -- "Go ahead, walk away, you fat piece of shit," Chris taunted Rich, who replied, "Go do some more drugs, you fucking poser, you fucking alcoholic!' Then it got physical, with Chris throwing beer cans and the pair wrestling their way into a dressing room mirror surrounded by light bulbs. Busted glass was soon everywhere. Gorman thought someone was going to die; "Let's end it now before someone cuts open a vein and bleeds out."

5. The Black Crowes were excited to be the house band at Howard Stern's 60th birthday party in New York -- until Chris Robinson asked, "How much?"

The shock jock was an early supporter of the Black Crowes, so Stern's team thought they'd be the perfect choice to play his all-star birthday tribute at New York's Hammerstein Ballroom in 2014. The plan was to do it for free to repay Stern for his fandom, but Chris wasn't having it. "Fuck Howard Stern. I don't owe that motherfucker anything," he said, according to Gorman, who claims the singer wanted $150,000 personally to do the gig. He didn't get it, and he forbade his bandmates from playing it without him. "The real Chris Robinson is the angriest person I've ever know," writes Gorman.

6. Rich Robinson's snub of Jimmy Page derailed the Black Crowes' 55-date tour with the Led Zeppelin guitarist after just 11 shows.

The pairing of Page with the Crowes gave the dysfunctional band a shot in the arm in 2000 and set them up for a successful year of touring. But following an appearance on The Tonight Show, Page, who was battling back problems, mysteriously disappeared, and the tour was cancelled. Gorman learned the real reason why Page left from the man himself a year and a half later. According to the drummer's recollection, Page told him that he offered to write songs with the Robinson brothers for their next record, but Rich blew him off with a "No thanks! ... We don't need more songs." "I was insulted," Page said to Gorman, who furiously called the Crowes' manager and told him, "I'm driving to Connecticut, and I'm going to kill Rich in his home."

7. Gorman dreamed of quitting the band for years, until one incident finally forced his hand. Not surprisingly, it involved money.

On the eve of a new tour celebrating the anniversary of the band's debut album, Chris Robinson demanded a larger percentage of the Crowes' pie. Specifically, he wanted all of Gorman's share. "Chris wanted 75 percent of all the band's income. That was quite an upgrade from the 33 1/3 percent share he had been receiving," writes Gorman, who said no way to becoming a salaried member of the band he co-founded. "And that was the end of the Black Crowes."

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/black-crowes-book-steve-gorman-wild-stories-890664/

 

Edited October 5, 2019 by luvlz2

[reids]

7 hours ago, luvlz2 said:

Black Crowes Drummer Steve Gorman's New Book: 7 Wildest Tales About the Band

'Hard to Handle: The Life and Death of the Black Crowes' paints a picture of a group in constant turmoil

By JOSEPH HUDAK

"At the very least," Steve Gorman writes in his new tell-all about the Black Crowes, "I can tell you what happened from my point of view." As the band's drummer since its nascent days as Mr. Crowe's Garden up until the Black Crowes' implosion in 2014, Gorman has seen his share of rock & roll drama from behind the kit. In Hard to Handle: The Life and Death of the Black Crowes -- A Memoir, written with Steven Hyden, he distills his 27 years with the group into a satisfying and unexpectedly emotional read.

From onstage fights between the famously quarreling Robinson brothers, singer Chris and guitarist Rich, to backstage run-ins with Aerosmith on the Crowes' first major tour, Gorman paints a picture of a band that just couldn't get out of its own way. More often than not, fractures involved money and control, along with a large helping of ego -- which Gorman says scuttled the band's tour with JImmy Page, sending the Led Zeppelin guitarist hurrying back to London.

Eventually, Gorman had enough. After one glass-breaking altercation between the siblings, he determined to quit. "I wanted to kill both of them," he writes. "I wanted to kill the Black Crowes."

Here are seven of the wildest tales in Gorman's account of one of rock's most dysfunctional bands.

1. After the band signed with Rick Rubin's Def American label, the producer asked them to change their name to Kobb Kounty Krows -- K.K.K.

Rubin didn't like the group's original name of Mr. Crowe's Garden, and he suggested a moniker that both nodded to the Robinson brothers' home state of Georgia and was provocative. Attention-grabbing or not, the allusion to the Klan didn't sit well with the band. "How about we kick your ass right here in this bar tonight? That'll get some attention,' Gorman recalls Chris Robinson threatening Rubin. In the end, the band changed its name, fortunately to the Black Crowes.

2. Gorman once tried to kick Liam Gallagher's ass for slagging the Crowes onstage at Glastonbury.

When Oasis played Glastonbury in 1995, Gorman was watching side stage after the Black Crowes' set when he heard -- or thought he heard -- Liam Gallagher say to the crowd, "It's nice to get that silly Southern shit out of the way so you can hear some real music.' Incensed, and admittedly drunk, Gorman forced his way into Oasis' backstage trailer with a bottle of Jack Daniel's and waited for Gallagher to come offstage. "This fucking kid is about to learn more than he ever wanted to about silly Southern shit," Gorman writes. Cooler heads in the Crowes camp prevailed and persuaded the drummer to leave, but Gorman asked Liam about the insult six years later when the Crowes toured with Oasis. "What? No!" Gallagher said. "I thought it was a proper fucking rock band."

3. Not interested in partying with his bandmates after a triumphant gig in New Orleans, Rich Robinson broke Gorman's cardinal rule of touring: He drove home in the bus without the rest of the band.

According to the drummer, he, Chris, and the rest of the Crowes wanted to see Peter Holsapple play a solo set across the town after their own gig ended. Rich wanted to head immediately back to Atlanta. Reaching a compromise, they planned to meet Rich at the bus at 2 a.m. to head home. But when they arrived, both Rich and the band bus were gone. "Even Chris, on his worst fucking day, would never take the bus," Gorman writes. "That's never happened in the history of bands. It's unforgivable." Rich never apologized, says Gorman. Instead, the guitarist asked the band to get him his own bus.

4. Gorman was witness to some epic fights between the Robinson brothers, including one in San Antonio where he feared they'd actually kill each other.

The incident started when Chris tried to get his brother to play more cover songs in the Crowes' set. At first, they just hurled insults -- "Go ahead, walk away, you fat piece of shit," Chris taunted Rich, who replied, "Go do some more drugs, you fucking poser, you fucking alcoholic!' Then it got physical, with Chris throwing beer cans and the pair wrestling their way into a dressing room mirror surrounded by light bulbs. Busted glass was soon everywhere. Gorman thought someone was going to die; "Let's end it now before someone cuts open a vein and bleeds out."

5. The Black Crowes were excited to be the house band at Howard Stern's 60th birthday party in New York -- until Chris Robinson asked, "How much?"

The shock jock was an early supporter of the Black Crowes, so Stern's team thought they'd be the perfect choice to play his all-star birthday tribute at New York's Hammerstein Ballroom in 2014. The plan was to do it for free to repay Stern for his fandom, but Chris wasn't having it. "Fuck Howard Stern. I don't owe that motherfucker anything," he said, according to Gorman, who claims the singer wanted $150,000 personally to do the gig. He didn't get it, and he forbade his bandmates from playing it without him. "The real Chris Robinson is the angriest person I've ever know," writes Gorman.

6. Rich Robinson's snub of Jimmy Page derailed the Black Crowes' 55-date tour with the Led Zeppelin guitarist after just 11 shows.

The pairing of Page with the Crowes gave the dysfunctional band a shot in the arm in 2000 and set them up for a successful year of touring. But following an appearance on The Tonight Show, Page, who was battling back problems, mysteriously disappeared, and the tour was cancelled. Gorman learned the real reason why Page left from the man himself a year and a half later. According ot the drummer's recollection, Page told him that he offered to write songs with the Robinson brothers for their next record, but Rich blew him off with a "No thanks! ... We don't need more songs." "I was insulted," Page said to Gorman, who furiously called the Crowes' manager and told him, "I'm driving to Connecticut, and I'm going to kill Rich in his home."

7. Gorman dreamed of quitting the band for years, until one incident finally forced his hand. Not surprisingly, it involved money.

On the eve of a new tour celebrating the anniversary of the band's debut album, Chris Robinson demanded a larger percentage of the Crowes' pie. Specifically, he wanted all of Gorman's share. "Chris wanted 75 percent of all the band's income. That was quite an upgrade from the 33 1/3 percent share he had been receiving," writes Gorman, who said no way to becoming a salaried member of the band he co-founded. "And that was the end of the Black Crowes."

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/black-crowes-book-steve-gorman-wild-stories-890664/

 

Yep. I’ve seen some of it first hand having grown up in the southeastern  US.

One of the most talented, but dysfunctional groups in the history of music.

R😎

 

[luvlz2]

I have two 'Live At the Greek' vinyls, one on white vinyl and the other on red, clear and blue vinyl. I understand now they have the "Live At The Greek 20th Anniversary Audiophile Edition"  Audiophile is superior sounding and it's tempting to get this.

Edited October 10, 2019 by luvlz2

[luvlz2]

I believe what Gorman says. What reason would he have to lie? In particular I'm wondering how much this (Robinson turning down Page's offer to team up to write songs together) really affected Jimmy Page. I'm starting to think it affected him so badly that it is the reason he hasn't made any new music. It's all really sad.

Edited October 18, 2019 by luvlz2

[reids]

1 hour ago, luvlz2 said:

I believe what Gorman says. What reason would he have to lie? In particular I'm wondering how much this (Robinson turning down Page's offer to team up to write songs together) really affected Jimmy Page. I'm starting to think it affected him so badly that it is the reason he hasn't made any new music. It's all really sad.

That along with RP not doing anything studio or live w/ JP since 2007 O2 show.

R😎

[hummingbird69]

Chris Robinson's voice ruins the entire thing for me, just like with Coverdale/Page I can't enjoy the music with either singer.  

[kirchzep27]

Respectfully,  jimmy leaving the black crowes tour for a back injury and never touring again....makes sense. Hey,  jimmy page did not announce his retirement, he just went out live, with robert plant in 98 and the black crowes in 99, 00. 

[Brigante]

Pity they talked Gorman out of slapping that gobshite, Gallagher, though...

[luvlz2]

The Live at the Greek 20th Anniversary Audiophile Edition vinyl sounds very good! It's a big improvement.

Edited January 6, 2020 by luvlz2

[reids]

55 minutes ago, luvlz2 said:

The Live at the Greek 20th Anniversary Audiophile Edition vinyl sounds very good!

Very cool 😎 👍

[luvlz2]

https://www.loudersound.com/news/the-black-crowes-rich-robinson-i-didnt-snub-jimmy-page

[reids]

1 hour ago, luvlz2 said:

https://www.loudersound.com/news/the-black-crowes-rich-robinson-i-didnt-snub-jimmy-page

Lol. Why doesn’t someone just Ask Jimmy? 
 

R😎

[mstork]

On 2/5/2020 at 8:13 PM, reids said:

Lol. Why doesn’t someone just Ask Jimmy? 
 

R😎

I’m guessing Jimmy was probably unhappy Gorman told this tale out of school in the first place, and even less happy Rich was forced to address it! I wouldn’t expect an answer of any substance if he’s ever asked about it.

[reids]

2 hours ago, mstork said:

I’m guessing Jimmy was probably unhappy Gorman told this tale out of school in the first place, and even less happy Rich was forced to address it! I wouldn’t expect an answer of any substance if he’s ever asked about it.

I’m sure. I just wish they’d go to the source to confirm. I’ve actually met Rich and he does snub people. On the last occasion I saw the BC, He had his own bus with his dogs and wouldn’t come out to meet fans while the rest of the band were friendly and hung out. 

R😎

[jsj]

I’ve just finished Steve Gorman’s book and I also recently read Rich Robinson denying the claim against him. Gorman has got an axe to grind against the brothers and probably quite rightly. He goes into Page telling him about Rich’s refusal to work with him in some detail, quoting what Jimmy said, rather than summarising it and I think that’s what makes Gorman’s account believable. I doubt Jimmy will be happy about it though. 

[bluecongo]

I would wager a fairly large amount that Page was asked and consented to this anecdote being published.   

[jmorton]

If Gorman is to be believed (and as someone pointed out above Steve goes into GREAT detail about his meeting with Page) then he and Page have a good relationship and I would figure he'd ask Page about the incident before putting it in the book.

Gorman has been talking about the Page thing with friends for awhile now. Apparently he told Dean Delray about it on his podcast (off the record) in 2014 and Delray asked Rich about the Page stuff when he had Rich on his podcast in 2016. So this wasn't just for the book and it was clearly something that bothered Gorman for a long time.

Quote

 

 

[Whigged]

As much as I believe Gorman, and if you read his book he really isn't grinding an axe, just telling things like they were, I don't understand if it were true why Jimmy would get up onstage with The Black Crowes in 2011 if he was so insulted? I wish Steve would have addressed that.

[reids]

20 minutes ago, Whigged said:

As much as I believe Gorman, and if you read his book he really isn't grinding an axe, just telling things like they were, I don't understand if it were true why Jimmy would get up onstage with The Black Crowes in 2011 if he was so insulted? I wish Steve would have addressed that.

... and JP played onstage (last) in 2015 (Seattle Awards) w/ Rich Robinson and others. I don’t think JP is angry about things like Steve Gorman (considering what he put up with being in the Crowes).
 

R😎

[luvlz2]

They are selling Jimmy Page & The Black Crowes t-shirts on ebay, four or five different varieties that you're able to choose your own size. They are pretty cool looking.

Edited May 1, 2020 by luvlz2

[luvlz2]

Well, it was 20 years ago this week that the concert ad for Jimmy Page & TBC appeared in the Phoenix New Times June 1-8, 2000 edition. Only a short two months it would have been before the concert which was to be held August 13th at the Desert Sky Pavilion in Phoenix. Too bad it was never to be!

Edited June 3, 2020 by luvlz2