Strider Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Dazed and Confused in 1975 was long, especially at those Forum shows...but nearly an hour long? I don't think so. Even so, March 27, '75 was the longest D & C they played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenman Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 In other words, the longest version of "Dazed And Confused" is about 47 minutes long...which is still way too fuckin' long in my not so humble opinion...for some reason I can dig half an hour of "No Quarter" or "Moby Dick" but 30+ minutes of "D & C" is just too self indulgent for my admittedly warped tastes... Personally I find when it comes to the 75 and 77 tours its often actually the shorter(generally earlier) versions that bore me more as they tend to be more standard run thoughs where as the band seemed to get more adventurous as the tour progressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutrocker Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 Had they played "Dazed And Confused" in 1977, for some reason I envision a super duper version encompassing both "Achilles Last Stand" (where the "San Francisco" section begins) and the Noise Solo. Then we probably would have had a few hour long versions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 Had they played "Dazed And Confused" in 1977, for some reason I envision a super duper version encompassing both "Achilles Last Stand" (where the "San Francisco" section begins) and the Noise Solo. Then we probably would have had a few hour long versions... Sure. Then they could have ruined two songs for the price of one. "Achilles Last Stand" deserved the respect of being treated as a stand-alone song. It would have been a bastardization if they had enfolded "Achilles" into the "Dazed and Confused" stew, just to link it with "San Francisco" in people's minds. I mean, by 1977 who fucking cared about that silly Scott McKenzie song anyway. It was time to drop that faded hippie shit. Thank god they dropped D & C from the set and played "Achilles" on its own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonzo_fan Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 Had they played "Dazed And Confused" in 1977, for some reason I envision a super duper version encompassing both "Achilles Last Stand" (where the "San Francisco" section begins) and the Noise Solo. Then we probably would have had a few hour long versions... I agree with Strider that Achilles deserved to be a thing unto itself; however, I have always wished they played Dazed in '77, for curiosity's sake if nothing else. And you're right it probably would've crossed the hour mark a few times (L.A. most likely). It could've come third last in the set (pre-encore) and transition into Achilles. Maybe put some of the Noise stuff in the middle of the bow solo, or just before it. I guess it was dropped because if they kept it every show would be pushing 4 hours! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ListenToThis Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Jimmy stated they dropped it because he wasn't "dazed and confused" anymore. Do we know the real reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonzo_fan Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Jimmy stated they dropped it because he wasn't "dazed and confused" anymore. Do we know the real reason? That's interesting I've never heard that. Find it hard to believe though-wasn't his drug intake higher than ever before in '77? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenman Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 I agree with Strider that Achilles deserved to be a thing unto itself; however, I have always wished they played Dazed in '77, for curiosity's sake if nothing else. And you're right it probably would've crossed the hour mark a few times (L.A. most likely). It could've come third last in the set (pre-encore) and transition into Achilles. Maybe put some of the Noise stuff in the middle of the bow solo, or just before it. I guess it was dropped because if they kept it every show would be pushing 4 hours! Personally I think they maybe should have kept Dazed just up to the bow solo and then merged that into Achilles. In 75 I think that first 3rd was almost always great with the San Fransico/Woodstock/etc vocal section being at its best ever, the rest of the track was I'd say a bit more hit and miss only really impressing towards the end of the US tour(21/3 and 25/3 especially) and at Earls Court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutrocker Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Sure. Then they could have ruined two songs for the price of one. "Achilles Last Stand" deserved the respect of being treated as a stand-alone song. It would have been a bastardization if they had enfolded "Achilles" into the "Dazed and Confused" stew, just to link it with "San Francisco" in people's minds. I mean, by 1977 who fucking cared about that silly Scott McKenzie song anyway. It was time to drop that faded hippie shit. Thank god they dropped D & C from the set and played "Achilles" on its own. :lol: I agree, of course- I was just offering up a very warped hypothetical, because had Page insisted on "Dazed And Confused" in the '77 shows I could have seen them doing something very much like I suggested. Naturally I prefer a standalone, unadulterated "Achilles Last Stand" over "D & C" any day, though I'll concede that the '77 Noise Solo gave Page a vehicle for his bowed guitar solo. The bowed guitar solo after all was arguably the biggest 'trademark' of a Led Zeppelin performance, so I suppose it had to be slotted in somewhere. Not only that, but I imagine in 1977 laser pyramid effects didn't come cheap. As for "San Francisco", yer right, ten years after the fact it was incredibly dated, but the "Woodstock" interlude wouldn't have been much better- leave the dated hippie nonsense to Crosby, Stills and Nash Jimmy stated they dropped it because he wasn't "dazed and confused" anymore. Do we know the real reason? The real reason? Probably deep down Page knew that he didn't quite have the chops by 1977 to pull off "Dazed And Confused" convincingly...as far as I'm concerned it should have been dropped in 1975, with "How Many More Times" resurrected (like it was in the early '75 shows). IMO by '75 the "D & C" performances had become so bloated and self indulgent that they were begging Johnny Rotten to gob all over them And I know I'm in a minority about that, but I just think that the 1975 "D & C" almost borders on self-parody- and even then a lot of times Page couldn't pull it off with any real conviction- I reckon by that point in the '75 shows he'd indulged a bit too much backstage during "Moby Dick", resulting in some very sloppy playing in the last third of some of those shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Dounim Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 All this Dazed hate really hurts me right in the gut. x . x I always thought that if Dazed had stayed, they just would've played the opening through the bow solo, then went into Achilles straight out of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeppMan93 Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 People don't like this? Awww c'mon, its cool. This is probably the longest guitar solo he ever did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Dounim Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 I like that alot, but the longest is from 1977/06/27. People don't like this? Awww c'mon, its cool. This is probably the longest guitar solo he ever did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonzo_fan Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 All this Dazed hate really hurts me right in the gut. x . x I always thought that if Dazed had stayed, they just would've played the opening through the bow solo, then went into Achilles straight out of that. I feel your pain, Sue. Especially since I'm very fond of many '75 Dazed's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Dounim Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 1975/03/21's Dazed deserves to be in some sort of pantheon. 40:02 of pure rock and funk.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSR5cvvFRtw I feel your pain, Sue. Especially since I'm very fond of many '75 Dazed's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonzo_fan Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 1975/03/21's Dazed deserves to be in some sort of pantheon. 40:02 of pure rock and funk.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSR5cvvFRtw Agreed. I recently had to make a desert island art collection for my philosophy class and my Definitely Seattle boot was in there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutrocker Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 1975/03/21's Dazed deserves to be in some sort of pantheon. 40:02 of pure rock and funk.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSR5cvvFRtw As a big Stephen Stills fan I do like how Plant threw "For What It's Worth" in during the "San Francisco" section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael678 Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 for longest live show, i say it's one of the shows Zep did in like 1975 or something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutrocker Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 for longest live show, i say it's one of the shows Zep did in like 1975 or something Already settled earlier in the discussion...longest show is L.A. 27/6/77, very closely followed by Earls Court 25/5/75. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Dounim Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Technically, if you cut out all the time Zep wasn't actually on stage 1975/03/27 is longer than 1975/05/25. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutrocker Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Technically, if you cut out all the time Zep wasn't actually on stage 1975/03/27 is longer than 1975/05/25. By how much? I know 25/5/75 is around the 3hr 45min mark, it's only about a minute or so shorter than 27/6/77, so if that's the case then 27/3/75 could very well be the longest show...long fucking concerts no matter how ya slice it, I'd definitely need a bathroom break and (if it were in modern times) a ciggie break or two. We saw Paul McCartney back in November and he played for about two and a half hours (maybe longer), and that felt like a long show. Hell, I remember back when Coppola put out his three hour twenty minute "Redux" version of Apocalypse Now and seeing that in the IMAX theatre (one of my favourite movies)- that was a long time to sit and go without a ciggie or a pee Ya know, people talk about the mythical "Four hour" Boston Tea Party gig in '69, but the average '75 or '77 Zeppelin show really wasn't much shorter than that...I think the shortest complete '77 show was at least two and half hours (I'd be inclined to say that honour goes to Tempe 20/7/77 -based on the lack of encores, drum solo and "White Summer"- but based on the full recorded evidence I think Oakland 24/7/77 could have been the shortest complete '77 show) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonzo_fan Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 By how much? I know 25/5/75 is around the 3hr 45min mark, it's only about a minute or so shorter than 27/6/77, so if that's the case then 27/3/75 could very well be the longest show...long fucking concerts no matter how ya slice it, I'd definitely need a bathroom break and (if it were in modern times) a ciggie break or two. We saw Paul McCartney back in November and he played for about two and a half hours (maybe longer), and that felt like a long show. Hell, I remember back when Coppola put out his three hour twenty minute "Redux" version of Apocalypse Now and seeing that in the IMAX theatre (one of my favourite movies)- that was a long time to sit and go without a ciggie or a pee Ya know, people talk about the mythical "Four hour" Boston Tea Party gig in '69, but the average '75 or '77 Zeppelin show really wasn't much shorter than that...I think the shortest complete '77 show was at least two and half hours (I'd be inclined to say that honour goes to Tempe 20/7/77 -based on the lack of encores, drum solo and "White Summer"- but based on the full recorded evidence I think Oakland 24/7/77 could have been the shortest complete '77 show) What would be impressive if 27/3/75 is the longest is there were only 15 songs that night, as opposed to 20 on 25/5/75 and 22 on 27/6/77... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutrocker Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 What would be impressive if 27/3/75 is the longest is there were only 15 songs that night, as opposed to 20 on 25/5/75 and 22 on 27/6/77... I don't think I have the 27/3/75 show any more, but we've already established that "Dazed And Confused" is fourty five minutes...add roughly another half an hour each for "No Quarter" and "Moby Dick", that's damn near two hours just for those three songs alone! That's fuckin' crazy, when ya think on it, I mean, who plays songs that long anymore? Off the top of my head Neil Young plays a couple of 20+ minute tunes in his current shows, but other than that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenman Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 By how much? I know 25/5/75 is around the 3hr 45min mark, it's only about a minute or so shorter than 27/6/77, so if that's the case then 27/3/75 could very well be the longest show...long fucking concerts no matter how ya slice it, I'd definitely need a bathroom break and (if it were in modern times) a ciggie break or two. We saw Paul McCartney back in November and he played for about two and a half hours (maybe longer), and that felt like a long show. Hell, I remember back when Coppola put out his three hour twenty minute "Redux" version of Apocalypse Now and seeing that in the IMAX theatre (one of my favourite movies)- that was a long time to sit and go without a ciggie or a pee Ya know, people talk about the mythical "Four hour" Boston Tea Party gig in '69, but the average '75 or '77 Zeppelin show really wasn't much shorter than that...I think the shortest complete '77 show was at least two and half hours (I'd be inclined to say that honour goes to Tempe 20/7/77 -based on the lack of encores, drum solo and "White Summer"- but based on the full recorded evidence I think Oakland 24/7/77 could have been the shortest complete '77 show) Ultimately I'd guess the drum solo and 77 noise solo worked as much as a break for the fans as the rest of the band. Really though I tend to find most of the longer 75/77 shows more interesting than the shorter ones. Besides maybe Seattle 77 longer tended to mean more inspired, give me an inspired 30 min NQ over a "going though the motions" 18 min version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutrocker Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Ultimately I'd guess the drum solo and 77 noise solo worked as much as a break for the fans as the rest of the band. I'm sure it worked out that way whether the band intended it to or not Really though I tend to find most of the longer 75/77 shows more interesting than the shorter ones. Besides maybe Seattle 77 longer tended to mean more inspired, give me an inspired 30 min NQ over a "going though the motions" 18 min version. I've been convinced for years that post-Seattle Zeppelin made a conscious decision to scale back the length of the 1977 shows; there are points where the Seattle show seems like more of a test of endurance than anything else, and I could easily imagine any one of the band members saying, "Jesus, these four hour long shows are a bit much, aren't they?" One way or another the remaining '77 shows are about an hour shorter than the Seattle gig, and that must have been by design. They dropped the drum solo, for one thing, and the Oakland (and I'm guessing Tempe) "No Quarter"s were barely twenty minutes long (the 24/7/77 doesn't even have a 'boogie section')- not necessarily 'going through the motions' (I can't think of a version of "No Quarter" that really fits that description) but rolled back for sure. Hell, maybe they actually noticed some of the bored tension in the audience during the longer solo pieces... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonzo_fan Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 I don't think I have the 27/3/75 show any more, but we've already established that "Dazed And Confused" is fourty five minutes...add roughly another half an hour each for "No Quarter" and "Moby Dick", that's damn near two hours just for those three songs alone! That's fuckin' crazy, when ya think on it, I mean, who plays songs that long anymore? Off the top of my head Neil Young plays a couple of 20+ minute tunes in his current shows, but other than that... Yeah nobody plays that long anymore. I saw the Stones in Toronto this past Thursday and they were fantastic, but the show was about 2 hr 40 min and the longest song was Midnight Rambler at 13 min. Also, I was thinking last night: 21/3/75 has to be up there for longest show. Comparing it to 27/3/75, every song is a little bit shorter, but it's encores are longer (WLL is 3 min longer and then add another 12 min for Communication Breakdown and Heartbreaker which aren't at 27/3/75). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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