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Click track?


darrin_h2000
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Just discovered this goofy thread...LOL. Who knows what Bonzo was doing, there are several stories...plastic garbage bin, a guitar case, cardboard box, his knee , his shoe sole, drum seat, tapping on a mic...etc....none of which are certain . If you listen closely, especially to the isolated tracks,  the 16ths vary in accents and slightly in tempo, they are not mechanically even or dynamically consistent. To me it sounds like sticks on a leather or padded surface, not bare hands. Not on his legs or a hard case...and CERTAINLY NOT A CLICK.  The uneveness, phrasing, and sound are obviously human. Also, running a click at 16ths instead of quarter notes makes no sense. 

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54 minutes ago, Mook said:

I always thought it was Bonham's bare hands on a guitar case.

Somebody should definitely ask one of the remaining members if they get the chance. Is Eddie Kramer on Twitter?

*Goes to look for Kramer on Twitter

😋 

Listen to the isolated track, the taps sound too hard to be fingers. It sounds like sticks on something rubbery or padded to me, but it could be because of the mic'ing and reverb. 

Eddie Kramer ....yoohoo! 

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  • 1 year later...
On 1/21/2013 at 9:10 AM, woz70 said:

The final nail is variation in tempo through the song. If they played to a click track, the song would have had to be at a constant tempo from start to finish. It is not a constant tempo throughout the song.

Click track proponents still haven't come up with a plausible counter to this one!  

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On 4/20/2020 at 6:52 PM, LurksReturnington said:

there's a fresh vid on youtube that claims its a click track.. and its a guitar lesson. 

 

For once and for all...It's clearly not a click.  If you try to align with a metronome, the tempo drifts. Even Rick contradicts himself ( sort of ) here. At the beginning he calls it a click but at the end he says " hand drums" , so who knows why he said "click" at the beginning. You can clearly hear that Bonzo is phrasing with those sixteenths , playing with a feel for the rhythms of the guitars.  There is variance and dynamics.  When you listen to the isolated track, it's very obvious. Whether it's on a guitar case, or a rubber waste bin, it's human not mechanical.

Also, I wish I could've done that drum demo...that guy was not happening. 

Edited by porgie66
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  • 1 month later...

I just found this quote on the Tight but Loose site. where it says Bonzo used his hands on drums

John Bonham said: ‘’You get a lovely little tone out of the drums that you couldn’t get with the sticks. You get an absolute true drum sound because there’s no wood involved’’

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  • 1 year later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Actually, after thinking it over I think he may have done it (Ramble On) all in one go. With a seat from a drum throne positioned where his rack tom would go, with a mic on it, and he just went from the pitter patter right into the drum part, easily going back and forth between the two parts.  You'll notice there's no rack tom in the track at all. This would be the easiest way, the tempo would stay steady it and would save a track as well. 

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On 8/15/2021 at 6:50 PM, badgeholder said:

Actually, after thinking it over I think he may have done it (Ramble On) all in one go. With a seat from a drum throne positioned where his rack tom would go, with a mic on it, and he just went from the pitter patter right into the drum part, easily going back and forth between the two parts.  You'll notice there's no rack tom in the track at all. This would be the easiest way, the tempo would stay steady it and would save a track as well. 

I've been listening to the multitrack of this song to try and sort the possible recording process.

Here's what I think happened:

Basic track is - acoustic guitar playing along with pitter-patter.  No full kit.
The reasons are that the pitter-patter continues for a couple of beats while the kit does its lead-in fills.  This is just not possible for a drummer with anything less than four arms!  This is virtually impossible to hear on the mixed song, but if you isolate the (two) drum tracks it's pretty obvious.

Overdubs - 1st electric guitar, Bass & Kit.
You can hear the electric guitar spill in the Bass part (sounds like headphone spill to me), so Jones definitely didn't play along with the acoustic and the pitter-patter  in the basic track.
You can also make out Bass spill in the full kit sound - so they played together.
There's definite Bass spill in the 1st electric guitar part too.
This all points to the full band playing over the acoustic/pitter-patter tracks.

Unsure if the main vocals were done at this time, but it's possible.

Edited by woz70
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12 minutes ago, woz70 said:

I've been listening to the multitrack of this song to try and sort the possible recording process.

Here's what I think happened:

Basic track is - acoustic guitar playing along with pitter-patter.  No full kit.
The reasons are that the pitter-patter continues for a couple of beats while the kit does its lead-in fills.  This is just not possible for a drummer with anything less than four arms!  This is virtually impossible to hear on the mixed song, but if you isolate the (two) drum tracks it's pretty obvious.

Overdubs - 1st electric guitar, Bass & Kit.
You can hear the electric guitar spill in the Bass part (sounds like headphone spill to me), so Jones definitely didn't play along with the acoustic and the pitter-patter  in the basic track.
You can also make out Bass spill in the full kit sound - so they played together.
There's definite Bass spill in the 1st electric guitar part too.
This all points to the full band playing over the acoustic/pitter-patter tracks.

Unsure if the main vocals were done at this time, but it's possible.

For the nerdy amongst us...

There are 8 tracks in all:

Acoustic Guitar
Bass
Drums L
Drums R
Electric Guitar
Guitar Overdub
Vocal
Mixed track of Vocal and guitar overdubs - at least that's how it's marked.  It's actually just RP's vocal overdubs.

 

 

Edited by woz70
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563722056_Screenshot2021-08-17at12_57_14.thumb.png.315e18bf2d8fd3fd745ae209d2a3fc68.png

And here's a photo to put the 'Click Track' debate to bed once and for all.

The attached screenshot show a section of the pitter-patter from ramble on.

If this had been a metronome/click-track each and every one of those spikes would have been identical in height and width, and they would have been extremely evenly spaced.
The height of the spikes is directly proportional to how loud the sound was - the higher the spike, the louder the sound - there is enormous (human!) variation going on here.
It's fairly obvious that the spikes can be (loosely) grouped into fours - one loud and three quieter.  This is Bonham emphasising the first beat of each bar.
If you're super nerdy you'll also notice that the spikes are sometimes closer together or further apart.  These are tempo, or speed variations.
There's not a metronome/click-track-generator (don't think such a thing existed in the 60's) from the era that can vary volume, emphasise the first beat of a bar and make changes in tempo.  In fact changes in tempo are exactly what metronomes are designed NOT to do.

Screenshot 2021-08-17 at 12.57.14.png

Edited by woz70
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