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Dallas Knebs

Jimmy Page as Executive Producer

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Great topic indeed! There were some very interesting insights from Eddie Kramer and...don´t remember who it was,- about Led Zeppelin albums and production of them. Also nice pics of Eddie Kramer with Jimmy, behind the console. As far as I´m concerned, Jimmy Page was the right producer for Zeppelin´s music- not only because he wrote so much of the music,but his whole vision of Led Zeppelin was so strong right from the start. Actually, it could have been interesting to hear what would´ve other 70s bands sounded, with Jimmy´s production. Aerosmith comes to mind first... :rolleyes:

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Actually, it could have been interesting to hear what would´ve other 70s bands sounded, with Jimmy´s production. Aerosmith comes to mind first... :rolleyes:

Ach, Aerosmith didn't need Jimmy Page, they had Jack Douglas...the Rocks album, for example sounds heavy as shit. Great production on that one.

As far as the influence Zeppelin's production sound had on other artists, I'd look no further than some of the 'big drum sounds' bands started going after in the studio as a direct result of the bone crushing drum sounds captured on Zeppelin records...compare the drum sounds on albums by -just off the top of me head- The Who or Genesis to the 'dead' sounding studio drum sounds coming out of L.A. and New York studios in the 70's. The Big Drum Sound is totally an English invention.

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Also nice pics of Eddie Kramer with Jimmy, behind the console.

post-21997-0-64887700-1360245508_thumb.j

how it's done... open. together. don't tart it up. (Yes that is model Jimmy wearing a scarf in the studio in session)

post-21997-0-98935600-1360245597_thumb.j

Edited by Dallas Knebs

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For those familiar with the TV series Classic Albums -hour long documentaries based on the making of some of the greatest records of all time, focusing mainly on the studio/production aspects- I am surprised that they haven't tackled a Zeppelin record yet, as Zeppelin's albums would be no brainers for that kind of programme. Thing is, though, which album? Presence would be awesome, but unfortunately the engineer on those sessions (Keith Harwood) is no longer with us...at least Eddie Kramer (second album) and Andy Johns (fourth album) are still around.

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completely forgot about this

I wonder how tight a non-disclosure either formally or informally the engineers are/were?

Other than Andy Johns and Eddie Kramer, most people are all too forgetful can't remember it was a long time ago didn't really notice not sure what they were doing...

Even if they don't have non-disclosure agreements binding possibly still required to get permission from the label or catalog publisher? Page seems to prefer to keep the spotlight on the music and less about how and who other than the band.

For those familiar with the TV series Classic Albums -hour long documentaries based on the making of some of the greatest records of all time, focusing mainly on the studio/production aspects- I am surprised that they haven't tackled a Zeppelin record yet, as Zeppelin's albums would be no brainers for that kind of programme. Thing is, though, which album? Presence would be awesome, but unfortunately the engineer on those sessions (Keith Harwood) is no longer with us...at least Eddie Kramer (second album) and Andy Johns (fourth album) are still around.

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Yeah, Jack Douglas sure was good! Did pretty good with Alice Cooper too, even if he was somewhat on sidelines compared to Bob Ezrin, anyways... Yep, great 70s sound- no echo, no reverb, right on! :zzz:

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For those familiar with the TV series Classic Albums -hour long documentaries based on the making of some of the greatest records of all time, focusing mainly on the studio/production aspects- I am surprised that they haven't tackled a Zeppelin record yet, as Zeppelin's albums would be no brainers for that kind of programme. Thing is, though, which album? Presence would be awesome, but unfortunately the engineer on those sessions (Keith Harwood) is no longer with us...at least Eddie Kramer (second album) and Andy Johns (fourth album) are still around.

I hope they stay away from that particular series. There's a couple that are pretty cool, but most of them are kinda worthless as what went into making the albums.

I'd much prefer, if Page ever did it, that he keep it pretty well in house ala the Wish You Were Here or Quadrophenia docs from the last year or 2.

As for George Martin... I think he's overrated. Great producer no doubt, but I give more kudos to Geoff Emerick as far as getting all those interesting new sounds.

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completely forgot about this

I wonder how tight a non-disclosure either formally or informally the engineers are/were?

Other than Andy Johns and Eddie Kramer, most people are all too forgetful can't remember it was a long time ago didn't really notice not sure what they were doing...

Even if they don't have non-disclosure agreements binding possibly still required to get permission from the label or catalog publisher? Page seems to prefer to keep the spotlight on the music and less about how and who other than the band.

If yer referring to the Classic Albums series, Dallas, I know Eddie Kramer has of course participated in some of the shows (i.e. the Electric Ladyland episode)...hard to say what, if any, sort of non-disclosure agreements they have to sign; it would probably vary on a project by project basis.

I hope they stay away from that particular series. There's a couple that are pretty cool, but most of them are kinda worthless as what went into making the albums.

I'd much prefer, if Page ever did it, that he keep it pretty well in house ala the Wish You Were Here or Quadrophenia docs from the last year or 2.

Yeah, the WYWH programme was brilliant...but so was the Classic Albums DSOTM episode...unless Page consented to a standalone type programme on Zep's albums, a Classic Albums episode would be the next best thing. Yer right, though, some of the episodes are much better than others.

As for George Martin... I think he's overrated. Great producer no doubt, but I give more kudos to Geoff Emerick as far as getting all those interesting new sounds.

Oh, there's no question that Geoff Emerick brought a lot to the table (too bad his long awaited book turned out to be mostly bullshit). Revolver and Sgt Pepper changed the recording industry, and that's thanks to Emerick. George Martin's true forte is in arranging- as John Lennon put it, "He's more Paul's style of music than mine." :lol:

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as John Lennon put it, "He's more Paul's style of music than mine." :lol:
Exactly !!!

I appreciated the episode with Townsend and Kramer. Felt like EK was a bit too chirpy and ready to say me, me, me I did this than to keep it about the music and the band. Geoff Emerick needs a do over on his book. It was a crock.

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IMO the finished product of Led Zeppelin studio recordings is just right for each song. Some are meticulously worked on like Ten Years Gone, and others are just natural as the band laid them down like SIBLY. How Page was able to craft each song and each album is amazing to me. I don't think his contributions to the band or music in general as producer can ever be undervalued. Then there is him and a guitar....... A musical genius IMO.

I agree with the above poster. Jimmy knew how to get the exact right vibe (for lack of a better word) for all of their albums. Light and Shade, he was...is the perfectionist and it shows, imo.

Jimmy and George Martin (produced The Beatles albums) in my opinion are the two best popular music producers ever. With Jimmy being a musician in the band he produced, I think that gives him and Led Zeppelin an edge over the Beatles, being the best rock band or artist ever. Although. you can't go wrong with either!

I agree with this too! I would like to add one more name to the list of producers of their own music who made a difference. Stevie Wonder had full creative control and produced his music from 1972 onward including the incredible Songs in the Key of Life double album. :)

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Yeah, the WYWH programme was brilliant...but so was the Classic Albums DSOTM episode...unless Page consented to a standalone type programme on Zep's albums, a Classic Albums episode would be the next best thing. Yer right, though, some of the episodes are much better than others.

The DSOTM episode was pretty good, I just think it's in the minority for that series. There are a couple others that are pretty good, but so many others that are pretty much a few segments where they isolate a few tracks and don't offer much in the way of actual info.

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I agree with the above poster. Jimmy knew how to get the exact right vibe (for lack of a better word) for all of their albums.

several students at NYU have scrutinized the tempo of selected Led Zeppelin songs and the over arching constant is that the tempo and dynamics mirror the intensity of the recording = the vibe. If the recording and emotional connection is reposing to a whisper do not match the tempo then its a mixed signal. This is why click tracks suck the life out of songs.

People who feel things deeply respond deeply to songs like Tangerine wherein the tempo changes many, many times to match the phrasing and mood- sometimes the tempo is steady only a few bars at a time.

Had they click tracked it- it would be less than it is rather than more than it is.

Dropped beats, hidden synchopation, drops & stops, inflection, cadences and intonations make subtle and shocking transformations of feel: those elastic moveable pulses which missytootsweet notes as "vibe." On some songs it is clear that LZ cued off of Plant, others they followed Page only a few times did they cue from a strictly written chart- they took the organic road rather than packaged.

Production maestro at work. Let the flow do what it does- it flows.

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Quote from Eddie Kramer who helped produce LZ II.    

“Jimmy Page was very demanding. I use the comparison to Jimi Hendrix – both very demanding, very clever and on top of their game. They knew what they wanted to hear. Page even more so – because of his experience as a session musician, he was directing everything. This was his deal; he was the creator of the whole concept.

“That’s not to say he could have done it without the other musicians. Having the best drummer in the world and probably the world’s greatest rock bass player – one who was also a superb arranger and a master of many, many talents, like keyboards – that was key. You couldn’t imagine Led Zeppelin without the component parts; each component made the whole. And Robert Plant – you couldn’t put together a better rock dynasty than Zeppelin.

“The echo in Whole Lotta Love was a mistake – it was one of the biggest mistakes I ever made. We were in the middle of the song, and it comes to the break – ‘Woman…’ And you hear another one – well, one of the other vocal tracks was breaking through because we were using this funky old console. It wouldn’t allow me to turn the vocal off; I couldn’t get rid of it. Page and I looked at each other at the same time, and we grabbed a knob and threw a shitoad of reverb on it. We laughed and said, ‘Let’s leave it.’

“That is a classic example of leaving the damn mistakes in, because you never know where it’s going to lead you. 

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On 1/28/2013 at 2:45 AM, nirvana said:

In Through the Outdoor was a Plant, Jones, Page co-production no?

 

Wasn't Page too strung out during the early part of production and recording to play a major role

in studio or with the over-all scheme of that album?

Indeed which probably explains why it’s the worst produced Zep album by a country mile.

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