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Best Kashmir live version


tictac

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The Mike Millard recording is the only circulating source out there. The master and 1st generation copies are near complete at around 211-212 minutes...roughly 3 hours and 32 minutes. The only cuts in the tape seem to be in between the songs so no music is lost. Look for the Winston Remasters version of this show...that seems to be the general consensus of what the best quality is available of the Millard tapes.

I think the "best" versions of the show are held to be the JEMS 1st gen transfer from 2010 or else the recent Master > VHS transfer from Winston/ZepPhan.

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I feel like the 1977 renditions of "Kashmir" lost something -- I've always been much more appreciative of the 1975 versions. Any number of those would be my candidate for "best," with the O2 performance coming in second.

What exactly did it lose?

Because I know what it gained...Robert's voice. After struggling in 1975, Robert's vocals got much of their power and expressiveness back in 1977. The 1977 "Kashmir" also gained its coda back, after being an afterthought or forsaken altogether in 1975.

So I want to know specifically what you mean by saying the 1977 "Kashmir" lost something.

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I think the '77 Kashmir's are far superior to '75. Instead of Bonham repeatedly hitting the gong and having a linear outro in '75 he tries to outdo himself at every show in '77. Plant's voice, especially towards the end, is much more fitting in '77.

Of course everyone can have their own opinion, mine is just that '77 is better for me.

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  • 1 month later...

I have been listening to the effect on the high hat lately. On the 75 sbds its interesting, somtimes its weaving within the riff, other times i get listener fatigue from it. I been tryin to catch up with aud recordings on youtube, all different balances and venue dynamics. With some of the stuff from 90s, 77 shows, the mellotron sounded like wheels , pulleys and belts might be rollin out across the stage, like it was fallin apart. The bass pedals too loud in kashmir, is only thing thatll keep me from listenin .

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What exactly did it lose?

Because I know what it gained...Robert's voice. After struggling in 1975, Robert's vocals got much of their power and expressiveness back in 1977. The 1977 "Kashmir" also gained its coda back, after being an afterthought or forsaken altogether in 1975.

So I want to know specifically what you mean by saying the 1977 "Kashmir" lost something.

The '77 versions also gained the Middle Eastern sounding Danelectro and the sweet segue from White Summer/Black Mountainside.

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The '77 versions also gained the Middle Eastern sounding Danelectro and the sweet segue from White Summer/Black Mountainside.

Awhile back someone posted a current robert plant article, where he is talking about indo blues in his current band and with led zeppelin. We know kashmir has that influence and comes from white summer. But i wonder what else came from indo blues. I am guessing the riffs to four sticks, song remains the same and maybe in the evening, guitar licks from bring it on home, dancing days, nobody's fault and achilles. With the firm, intro to satisfaction guaranteed and midnight moonlight.

I can imagine the 77 kashmirs sounding authentic with the mellotron and with the 80 versions, thankfully jpj has a round sound on the keyboards and not a strong, synth piercing sort of sound. The clear recordings of 95 and 07 show how great the song works, hope that we can compare more official releases someday. Also wanted to agree with the folks who mention the eddie version, with the plant/bonham combination working real well there.

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^ Agree! The whole mix itself is what made it incredible. I believe this was truly the first time it became more than simply the sum of it's parts. The guitar tone was the best I ever heard for this song hands down, and the keys and bass pedals were mixed perfectly. Jason played it straight and relentless, Roberts vocals were his best since 77' if not better, he really pulled it out for this song. IMO this version is the perfect storm, everything works in synch, no one musician stands out, they become one homogenous force.

I'm with you on Jimmy's guitar tone--I'll take a Deluxe Les Paul over a Danelectro any day lol

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Is it just me, or is the mellotron out of tune on 1977/06/13?

I'd be inclined to say the damn mellotron was out of tune on quite a few dates...some performances of "Kashmir" the sound of the 'Tron is downright painful (not that the synth strings JPJ used in '79/'80 were much of an improvement...)

Again, hard to pick ONE 'best' version...IMO it's the only song they knocked outta the park in 2007; that is one of the best I've ever heard. For Zep's heyday, I'll take the '75 versions over anything after that. I want to say the major "Kashmir" whoopsies didn't start until '77.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 months later...

I just listened to the 6/25 Kashmir, its very good, but something about the 8/4 Kashmir strikes me as the best out of the two. It feels like it has something slightly more to it in my opinion. I think its the atmosphere.

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Thanks for posting that 77 Kashmir. For some reason I could not find it on YouTube, conneyfogles songs from that show, were the only ones I could find. The Achilles from that night is amazing too....there is no, at last the birds have flown, drum fill/cymbal splash. Bonham is twisting, turning, downshifting and accelerating in almost another state of being. Page is too, a perfect example of his tight but loose style.

With Kashmir...I hear what everyone has said, what a great recording and balance of sound here. The band has a real uniform approach to the song too, so cool. Jpj's keyboards are very good and the recording allows him to be heard in nice sound balance as well. Wow, they were really on that night. I'm having a zep fan déjà vu with this show...my brother had an inglewood show on vinyl, but when everything went to cds, we both had sold/traded most of our vinyl for cds. I'm gonna have to search out my cassettes and see if this is the show one day.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hey everyone, this is my first time posting in this forum, I've been reading such amazing stuff from diehard zepp fans such as myself ;)

IMO I think the best performance of Kashmir would have to be 21-06-77

This show, along with the Days Confused (05-03-75) turned me into Zepp Boots... The ListenToThisEddie performance is simply the strongest bonzo of all I've heard. The entire night JB was simply on fire! But since that one's been mentioned quite a lot, my top 5 would be:

1. 21/06/77 (LTTE)

2. 25/06/77 (4th night at The Forum)

3. 07/07/80 (their last ever show with Bonzo)

4. 27/03/75 (Greatest from the '75 IMHO)

5. 19/03/75 (The best sounding Boot of all, great performace as well)

Anyway... I felt like writing some zepp stuff... IT FEELS GREAT ;)

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I used to be very into Knebworth which I still love then the 02 is so powerful! But I've been listening to MSG 2/12/75 and Long Beach ?/?/75 and in both the whole band sounded great! At the very end JPJ cranks that bass up like in the studio That's The Way. Off topic, he also did in Ten Years Gone Cleveland 77. Loved when Zep did this in songs! Everyone loves a great ending.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Watch this go over like a lead balloon.

O2 is NOT Led Zeppelin. It was a beautiful tribute to and celebration of Led Zeppelin. LZ ended abruptly with the departure of John Bonham. To pick a best ever LZ performance from that concert shows a serious lack of respect not only for Bonham's contributions but also for the surviving members who felt they "couldn't go on as they once were". Yeah, they were billed as Led Zeppelin at that concert. That doesn't change the fact that Bonham wasn't there. I always felt that not replacing a fallen member was one of the things that elevated Zep above some of their contemporaries (I won't say "WHO"). Zep wasn't a band you could just reload. And picking a best performance based on sound quality? Huh? Do yourself a favor and put the '75 soundboards away for awhile and spend some quality time with the Third European Tour.

That said, Kashmir from Cologne 6-18-80 recently caught me by surprise. Check it out. It's my new fav.

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Watch this go over like a lead balloon.

O2 is NOT Led Zeppelin. It was a beautiful tribute to and celebration of Led Zeppelin. LZ ended abruptly with the departure of John Bonham. To pick a best ever LZ performance from that concert shows a serious lack of respect not only for Bonham's contributions but also for the surviving members who felt they "couldn't go on as they once were". Yeah, they were billed as Led Zeppelin at that concert. That doesn't change the fact that Bonham wasn't there. I always felt that not replacing a fallen member was one of the things that elevated Zep above some of their contemporaries (I won't say "WHO"). Zep wasn't a band you could just reload. And picking a best performance based on sound quality? Huh? Do yourself a favor and put the '75 soundboards away for awhile and spend some quality time with the Third European Tour.

That said, Kashmir from Cologne 6-18-80 recently caught me by surprise. Check it out. It's my new fav.

I for one think Roger and Pete still do justice to their back catalogue, and they clearly enjoy playing the songs and playing together, nothing wrong with that. I'm really looking forward to the forthcoming Quadrophenia tour live release, unfortunately they didn't tour it in my part of the world, I would have loved to have seen that show. If people still enjoy seeing them live and they still are willing and able, plus enjoy it I don't see the problem.

On the subject of the O2 one off show, the surviving members were compelled to do the show out of respect for Ahmet Ertegun who had given the band their start and artistic freedom which came to define the records. John encouraged Jason to play the drums when he was still alive, he even played on the Knebworth soundcheck during Trampled Underfoot. I really don't understand how you can say that the O2 was disrespectful to Bonzo and the rest of the band, they clearly loved playing with each other again and Bonzo would have been thrilled to see his son up there playing the shit out of those drums.

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What John Bohnam's wishes were/are is speculation and beside the point.

Is there a more qualified person than Jason to occupy that seat in a tribute to Led Zeppelin? No. Absolutely Not.

Nowhere did I day anything about O2 was disrespectful to JB. In fact, I tipped my hat to it. I say enjoy it for what it is, i do. I tip my hat to Jason and his LZ Experience shows. My point is that the line-up for that show is, by universal definition, not Led Zeppelin. And that this can't be agreed upon by fans, especially here, www.ledzeppelin.com, baffles me. What I said was a fan choosing a best ever version of a song from that show seems to disregard the mountain if epic recorded versions the band left behind for us. (Did they really not leave enough behind for you?) Maybe there isn't a mountain of epic Kashmir performances, but certainly a few which represent the heights the band could reach. No?

That the surviving members couldn't move forward with someone new as Led Zeppelin I guess touched me and I consider it an important part of their story. That The Who could reload shows they had a different chemistry and different values. That's all. I'm a big Who fan and the Moon-less Eminence Front and The Quiet One are two of my all time fav songs. Zep and The Who have a lot in common but most of all in their respective glory years they were each a band with 4 equal and distinctive personalities. Most bands in rock and roll history have had members come and go. Zep didn't. That means something. I think Moon was such a unique talent and personality that he shouldn't have been considered replaceable.

I don't think Roger and Pete are "doing justice" to their past. I think Pete's desperately living in the shadow of The Who's glory days and has been doing so since around 1983. Artists such as Neil Young, Bruce Springsteen, Rush, and Bob Dylan seem to have been somewhat more graceful in existing in the present with new material while celebrating their past. It seems Pete is still trying to prove something and certainly believes The Who should be held in higher regard than Zep. My wish for Pete is that he can relax and enjoy the fruits of his labors and his place in RNR history.

At the end of the day, these kind of politics pale in comparison to the magic of the music that has stood the test of time. I'm in it for the songs and when I need the real thing I go straight to the source. I prefer to accept no substitutes.

Edited by Badgeholder Still
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My point is that the line-up for that show is, by universal definition, not Led Zeppelin. And that this can't be agreed upon by fans, especially here, www.ledzeppelin.com, baffles me. What I said was a fan choosing a best ever version of a song from that show seems to disregard the mountain if epic recorded versions the band left behind for us. (Did they really not leave enough behind for you?) Maybe there isn't a mountain of epic Kashmir performances, but certainly a few which represent the heights the band could reach. No?

The guy has an opinion man, he likes that version better. Just because John is dead and not playing at this concert doesn't necessitate it from being taken out of the question when choosing your favorite version of the song. If the guy likes that version than he does. Its pointless to argue "How dare he choose this version where there are obviously greater versions!" You have no clue if he disregarded the others, just because he chose this one doesn't mean he absolutely detests the rest. Maybe he likes this one because of the guitar sound? Maybe because the quality is better? You are literally arguing against someones personal preference. Its a bit silly honestly.

To me that was Led Zeppelin on stage in December 2007. If they didn't have Jason there, then I would agree with you that they shouldn't be called that but he was the closest thing you would have got and I think that was enough.

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Closest thing and Real thing are two different things.

For whatever reason, you're working overtime to miss the point. Like the great Peter Green once sang, "Oh Well..."

I will concede that I was off-base to a degree. This thread is titled "Best Version Of Kashmir", not "Best Version Of Kashmir Performed By Led Zeppelin". I did assume conventional wisdom would dictate a great version featuring John Bohnam would trump any post Zep project version. That is not the case. My mistake. Apologies to the personal preferences of anyone who felt the need to take offense.

There are, however, a few things I cannot and will not concede:

1. Jason Bohnam has never been an official member of Led Zeppelin. Only a fill in on special occasions. This is NOT a slight towards Jason. Only a known fact.

Please, your emotional baggage and whatever John Bohnam said to you (or me) in a dream is not relevant here. (*insert smiley face here)

2. Choosing a favorite version of a song by a band who specialized in improvising and living in the moment based on the sound quality of the recording seems somewhat shallow. This is an opinion, one I feel I'm entitled to, and one that hopefully won't offend anyone here. Thank you for the opportunity and freedom to express it. Of course, being shallow isn't a crime. Only a small crack in the foundation of our civilization. (*insert winky face here)

If you are new to Zep and O2 is your introduction to the journey, that is awesome.

If you aren't savvy when it comes to obtaining unofficial recordings, that's totally understandable. Hopefully if you are interested you can get some help getting on board.

If you truly believe O2 versions are among the best ever, OK. Believe what you want. I sure do.

On that note, I'd like to throw Kashmir from San Diego 6-19-77 in the ring. Not a solid show all around, but the band had rallied by this point in the setlist.

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^

Your number one is not a fact. Jason was an official member of Led Zeppelin, on Dec 10th, 2007 and the days preceding. If you notice, during the O2 show, there are big lighted letters that spell out the words "Led Zeppelin". It would appear that the gentlemen on the stage playing were billing themselves as "Led Zeppelin". One of the four gentlemen, the one playing the drums, was Jason Bonham. So, while one can reason that the O2 version of "Led Zeppelin" was not the original group, it is certainly not a fact that Jason Bonham has never been an official member of a group of musicians billing themselves as "Led Zeppelin".

Also, mocking individuals for having "emotional baggage" with regard to their affection or affinity for Zeppelin may not be the best way to get your point across.

Edited by ListenToThis
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