Baseball discussion thread

[Electrophile]

I'm still amazed the Yanks have gotten what they have out of that rotation. I figured they would make a run at the wild card slot, be not seriously challenge the Sox for the AL East!

Burnett cannot be trusted as a starter in the playoffs. I they do as you said and put him in the pen.

The playoffs should be very interesting in the AL this year.

I was worried about the rotation from Day 1, and I'm going to be worried about the rotation until the last game of the season, whether that's the regular season or the playoffs. Our rotation is basically being held together with spit and baling wire, so the fact we're not out of it at this point is a frickin' miracle.

[dazedcat]

Brian Cashman deserves a lot of credit. He's not my personal favorite for a GM but he did a very very good job this past offseason. Both Colon and Garcia were picked up by him off the scrap heap for minor league contracts. Cashman apparently saw something other GM's didn't see. The Steinbrenner boys pressured him into signing Rafael Soriano, so he can't be blamed for that one. Cashman also signed Andruw Jones and Eric Chavez for very little and they have filled important roles this year too. His actual free agent signing of Russell Martin has worked very well, don't think for a minute that Colon and Garcia haven't been as good as they have been because Russell has caught them routinely. Martin is a great catcher.

Cashman had a pretty good off season last winter.

[Electrophile]

Yeah, Ca$h is money. He's made a few deals over the years that in the beginning had me going "WTF is he doing?!"......but then really, really, really worked out in the end. I mean, he orchestrated the deals that got not only AJ Burnett, but CC Sabathia, AND Mark Teixeira, all three of whom were the best free agents on the market at the time. The Yankees don't win in 2009 without those three, yes even AJ Burnett.

He also has great people working with him, that tip him off to players who might be struggling on one team, but would flourish on the Yankees. There's been many a player join the Yankees and excel, who had been stinking it up for somebody else. That's not to say he's perfect, the Kei Igawa/Carl Pavano double-feature of suck comes to mind, but more often than not, he hits more than he misses.

[Mattmc1973]

I mean, he orchestrated the deals that got not only AJ Burnett, but CC Sabathia, AND Mark Teixeira, all three of whom were the best free agents on the market at the time. The Yankees don't win in 2009 without those three, yes even AJ Burnett.

I wouldn't say he's a visionary for throwing $24 million, $23 million, and $16 million a season at Sabathia, Texeira, and Burnett respectively.

Yes, I'm sure you're tired of the "hater argument" that the Yankees simply throw money at everything...but it's true. I don't begrudge them for doing what they do, they're working within the guidelines of the MLB. There's no cap, they can afford to spend tons of money, so they do. The fact that their payroll is so high and their starting rotation is so suspect is more of an indictment on Cashman than anything. Yes, he's made some shrewd moves picking up guys on the cheap, so it can't be said that he simply overpays for everyone. But he has the luxury of making mistakes on guys like Pavano that no other team could make. Cashman blows $10 or $20 million on someone who doesn't work out, oh well, pocket change, just get someone else. Few other teams have that luxury. For most, if not all, other teams, you make a $20 million mistake on a player and you're paying for it for years to come.

But that's the beauty of baseball...it's the only major sport without a salary cap, and yet has the most diverse set of champions than the other sports. In the last 30 years, there have been 20 different champions. Big payroll doesn't equal titles.

[Electrophile]

I wouldn't say he's a visionary for throwing $24 million, $23 million, and $16 million a season at Sabathia, Texeira, and Burnett respectively.

Yes, I'm sure you're tired of the "hater argument" that the Yankees simply throw money at everything...but it's true. I don't begrudge them for doing what they do, they're working within the guidelines of the MLB. There's no cap, they can afford to spend tons of money, so they do. The fact that their payroll is so high and their starting rotation is so suspect is more of an indictment on Cashman than anything. Yes, he's made some shrewd moves picking up guys on the cheap, so it can't be said that he simply overpays for everyone. But he has the luxury of making mistakes on guys like Pavano that no other team could make. Cashman blows $10 or $20 million on someone who doesn't work out, oh well, pocket change, just get someone else. Few other teams have that luxury. For most, if not all, other teams, you make a $20 million mistake on a player and you're paying for it for years to come.

But that's the beauty of baseball...it's the only major sport without a salary cap, and yet has the most diverse set of champions than the other sports. In the last 30 years, there have been 20 different champions. Big payroll doesn't equal titles.

Well, I never called Cashman a visionary. I said for the most part he's good at his job, and he is. He's done plenty of boneheaded things in the front office to not warrant that title, no matter how many great players he's managed to pick up.

Re: the "hater argument"; yes I'm tired of it, but I also don't give two shits about it. We spend lots of money because we can, and because 75% of the time or more, it works out to our benefit. The Yankees don't always field the best team in the end, but at least they start the season off trying to. It's better than most teams do during the course of a season. Moves don't always work out, and yes they have the luxury of not being hurt too much financially by them, but that's just financially. When you're trading away quality farm talent for overpriced veterans that turn out to be bust, that's more of a hit than the money is. Thankfully they've gotten away from doing that, which is why the farm system is better than it was last decade.

If people hate the Yankees, they're going to hate them whether their payroll is $1 billion dollars or $1. I got used to that years and years ago. Now it's just funny. I'd rather worry about whether Alex Rodriguez's hip is going to hold up another year before he needs full-blown surgery, or whether AJ Burnett needs to be sent to Bellevue for a psych eval before his next start, than what a bunch of yahoos (not including you in that) think about the baseball team I root for.

[dazedcat]

Hey Dazedcat,

Who was that Yankee player who missed a start this season because of some stomach problems? Probably ate too many moonpies and coconut fried shrimp again. Some of those Yankees eat as much as their fat lazy fans.

If these players can't stay healthy they will probably have to send some of them back to the farm. Playing like fat Catholic High School girls ain't going to get them to the post season. Some of them are going to have careers just as short as that failing Barrack Osama loser. No hope and no change, a total disaster.

Hamilton

I'm sorry that Mexican street gangs roam Dodger Stadium at will and I'm really sorry your idiot owner and estranged wife financially destroyed your franchise. Dial back the bitterness a little bit though? Former Yankee legend Don Mattingly manages your ballclub and he deserves a lot better than this.

I thought you SoCal types were laid back? No? You know, get there by the third inning and leave after the seventh?

Your team at the start of this season was over 100 million in payroll, I think Dodger "management" needs to spend more wisely.

Make fun of Yankee fan though, it's just easier to do.

[Electrophile]

Oh just ignore that nonsense.

[dazedcat]

What makes you think it is just Mexicans causing problems at Dodgers Stadium? There are Asian, White, Black and Salvadoran gangs who have caused problems too.

Being that Dodgers Stadium is built over the homes and graves of so many original Mexican residents of Los Angeles; your tone sounds very unfair my friend. You might want to reconsider your tone a bit.

Btw, I never leave any game until the last out has been made.

Cheers,

Brad

OK, fair enough then. I knew as soon as I typed "Mexican" it was going to come back to haunt me. You live there so I assume you would know better than I. Apologies then to all minorities who live in LA either dead or alive.

[fsmith9095]

Go Phils !!

[Mattmc1973]

Gonna watch the best pitcher in baseball, Justin Verlander, go for win 19 tonight. Dude is just money. #1 in the AL in strikeouts, #1 in wins, and #2 in ERA. He has a shot at the pitching triple crown.

[Bong-Man]

Gonna watch the best pitcher in baseball, Justin Verlander, go for win 19 tonight. Dude is just money. #1 in the AL in strikeouts, #1 in wins, and #2 in ERA. He has a shot at the pitching triple crown.

....and he's throwing to arguably the best catcher in the majors, and who would have guessed that before the season started ?

[Anjin-san]

Hi all,

Sad news:

BALTIMORE — It’s impossible to make sense of the things we will never understand, so let’s just remember Mike Flanagan — who was found dead at his home on Wednesday — for all the things he did during a very eventful life and a very impressive athletic career that played out on several stages.

Flanny, as pretty much everyone knew him, played college basketball alongside Julius Erving and pitched for the Orioles in the days when they still smelled of champagne. He went on to become a respected major league pitching coach and a pretty good broadcaster before rising to become the executive vice president of the team that inducted him into its Hall of Fame in 1994.

KB

[Walter]

Sad news. He along with Palmer were one of the toughest one, two pitching punches in baseball back in the late 70's and early 80's. RIP and condolences to his family.

[Bong-Man]

The Tigers are on a roll ! We got hot right when we needed to. If we can catch Texas, we'll have home field against the wild card team. The last time we won the division was 24 years ago. Verlander wins # 22....the most by a Tiger since Joe Coleman in 1973, his 10th in a row. He'll have at least 4 more starts. Thank the baseball Gods that we signed Victor Martinez instead of Adam Dunn.

[Mattmc1973]

The Tigers are on a roll ! We got hot right when we needed to. If we can catch Texas, we'll have home field against the wild card team. The last time we won the division was 24 years ago. Verlander wins # 22....the most by a Tiger since Joe Coleman in 1973, his 10th in a row. He'll have at least 4 more starts. Thank the baseball Gods that we signed Victor Martinez instead of Adam Dunn.

Yep, and Doug Fister was a nice pick-up, he'll be the #2 starter in the playoff!

[Janet]

The Tigers are on a roll ! We got hot right when we needed to. If we can catch Texas, we'll have home field against the wild card team. The last time we won the division was 24 years ago. Verlander wins # 22....the most by a Tiger since Joe Coleman in 1973, his 10th in a row. He'll have at least 4 more starts. Thank the baseball Gods that we signed Victor Martinez instead of Adam Dunn.

Congratulations, the Tigers just keep on winning games. The only team my White Sox can beat is the Twins.

[Mattmc1973]

Man, things are crazy going into the last day of the season! The collapse of the Red Sox has been incredible, and they are tied with the Rays going into the last day. The Braves have collapsed mightily as well, and they're tied with the Cardinals. Seeing a 1-game playoff for one or both of these situations would be cool.

As far as my Tigers, they are playoff bound, but home field is still in question. A win tonight and a Rangers loss would give them home field. Either way, they are possibly the most dangerous team going into the playoffs. With a 1-2 punch of Verlander and Doug Fister, they'll be tough to beat in a 5 game opening series. And Miguel Cabrera and Victor Martinez are the most lethal 4-5 hitters in baseball, and the Tigers' offense overall is pretty great.

Should be interesting!

[dazedcat]

What a last night for the regular season. Red Sox collapse completely as did Atlanta. Yankee fans are making fun of Red Sox fans but really, Tampa has the best starting pitching staff in the entire AL top to bottom.

I would have let Mariano Rivera close the game out, I'd much rather have a train wreck like the Red Sox stumble through the door instead of a hot club like the Rays. The Orioles played the Red Sox very tough though, my hats off to them.

Post season should be very interesting.

[ebk]

Just got home from the Yard. The most fun I've had at the park all season!! You'd think the O's actual won...something. Complete collapse by the Saux, and I can't say I was sorry to see the obnoxious fans there get real quiet at the end.

I'm going for the Tigers and the Rays in the first round. Then we'll see.

I love baseball!!!

[Walter]

What a last night for the regular season. Red Sox collapse completely as did Atlanta. Yankee fans are making fun of Red Sox fans but really, Tampa has the best starting pitching staff in the entire AL top to bottom.

I would have let Mariano Rivera close the game out, I'd much rather have a train wreck like the Red Sox stumble through the door instead of a hot club like the Rays. The Orioles played the Red Sox very tough though, my hats off to them.

Post season should be very interesting.

Completely agree with you. But there was no guarantee the Sox would've beaten the Rays in a one game playoff anyway. I love to see the Red Sox go into the tank - but would much rather have the Yanks playing them than the Rays. The AL playoffs are going to be very interesting and unpredictable.

As far as the NL goes, the pressure is on in Philly. They were supposed to win the whole thing going away, coming into the season. Let's see if they can deliver!

[dazedcat]

Yeah I doubt the Sox would have beaten Tampa anyway and after they lost to Baltimore I guess it didn't really matter.

I can't imagine Philly not making the World Series but stranger things have happened. Detroit should be scary to Yankee fans, they're very good. This should be the best of the divisional playoff series I would think.

[Walter]

I thought the Yankees, being the top seed in the AL, would have played the Rays in the first round - what gives?

Anyway, Red Sox are coming across as big pussies - complaining about the Yankees not giving their all and hurting the integrity of the game....sour grapes! They should've taken care of their business when they had the chance! Another epic tank job by the Red Sucks!

[ebk]

I thought the Yankees, being the top seed in the AL, would have played the Rays in the first round - what gives?

Anyway, Red Sox are coming across as big pussies - complaining about the Yankees not giving their all and hurting the integrity of the game....sour grapes! They should've taken care of their business when they had the chance! Another epic tank job by the Red Sucks!

The Wild Card team isn't allowed to play the division leader in their division. So if the division leader is the top seed, the WC team has to start somewhere else.

And those sentences are quite poorly constructed, but I'm too lazy to re-do them - sorry. I hope I've at least gotten the idea across...

[Bong-Man]

I knew the Tigs and Yanks would go five games, and I also knew that Granderson would show up to hurt us before this series was over.....But suck it up guys !! This team is beatable ! Just relax, be patient at the plate, and play your game tonite. The Tigers are fully capable of having a big inning against anyone, and we're overdue in this series. The Tigers never faced Nova before, which gave him an edge in game 1 (day 2). Tonite will be different. It's time for the Venezualen Babe Ruth to put on a show.

[Electrophile]

I thought the Yankees, being the top seed in the AL, would have played the Rays in the first round - what gives?

You don't play a team in your own division in the first round. Let's say for example, the Wild Card was the Minnesota Twins. As they are in the same division as the Detroit Tigers, they would not play each other. Same would be true of the Angels winning the Wild Card - they're in the same division as the Texas Rangers.

You could only conceivably play a divisional opponent in the LCS.