solar Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 And Mulder's been a pile of crap since he left. Same with Zito. And Tejada and Giambi, well, we know how THEY got to where they were (see Mitchell Report) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Klu Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 Goodee!!...the Angels get to sleepwalk out of the AL West and get boned by the BoSox again!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solar Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 Goodee!!...the Angels get to sleepwalk out of the AL West and get boned by the BoSox again!! Since the wild card is most likely coming out of the Central (Detroit/Cleveland), you'll get one of them in the first round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solar Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 Goodee!!...the Angels get to sleepwalk out of the AL West and get boned by the BoSox again!! Since the wild card is most likely coming out of the Central (Detroit/Cleveland), you'll get one of them in the first round. My guess: No Yankees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Klu Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 Since the wild card is most likely coming out of the Central (Detroit/Cleveland), you'll get one of them in the first round. My guess: No Yankees. Yay, M Cabrera will haunt our dreams and/or Bob Feller will diss our Latino players! or Screw the central. I can't get used to them being competitive; it feels so wrong. We own the yanks anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rorer714 Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 Yay, M Cabrera will haunt our dreams and/or Bob Feller will diss our Latino players! or Screw the central. I can't get used to them being competitive; it feels so wrong. We own the yanks anyway. Being an Indians fan,I say Screw the west.I can't get used to the Angels being competitive let alone being a team.I'm older than them At least we didn't get swept by the Red Sox! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattmc1973 Posted December 15, 2007 Author Share Posted December 15, 2007 But, as and A's fan, you get used to this. You just have to. Zito, Mulder, Hudson, Tejada, Giambi and so many more have left, and there's nothing to do but just trust Billy. The scary part about this deal is that it seems to mark the beginning of a new era for the A's. It's no secret now that we're in full rebuilding mode, but it's been a while since the last time we had to do this. Yeah, seems like the A's and Twins always have to go through this. They're smaller market and smaller payroll, so every time they cultivate a star, when it comes time for that star to negotiate his next big contract, they have to let him go. Both teams are kind of a breeding ground for stars, they grow them, then send them off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Klu Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 At least we didn't get swept by the Red Sox! Yeah, you pulled a 3-1 choke job. A much more elegant exit.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanna be drummer Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 Cause he'd [allegedly] be the barry bonds of pitching! duh His counting stats would make him the best modern pitcher of all time. 340 wins, zillion K's. He's lucky Maddux is hovering around his win totals or else he'd be even more scrutinized for making it so high up alone the 300win list. Everyone thought Clemens was done after '96. Theres no way he gets to 300+ wins without roids [allegedly]. Pitchers primarily take them to reduce recovery time between starts, not to gain bulk or pitching speed. Without roids [allegedly], he'd collapse during the 2nd half of the season or only last 5 innings....greatly reducing his chances of getting a game decision (w/l). ..all this assuming he did take roids. [allegedly]True. I thinkt he roids kept him the game, but didn't help his game really. Roids for Bonds increase his power which increases his home run total. Roids for Clemens keep his arm strong, which is useful for fastballs (which he doesn't throw very much anymore) but more importantly, it kept it going. It still takes one hell of a pitcher to throw like he does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Klu Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 True. I thinkt he roids kept him the game, but didn't help his game really. Roids for Bonds increase his power which increases his home run total. Roids for Clemens keep his arm strong, which is useful for fastballs (which he doesn't throw very much anymore) but more importantly, it kept it going. It still takes one hell of a pitcher to throw like he does He's been mostly a control pitcher with the split being his K pitch. As long as you're in the high 80's (not fatigued/injured thanks to roids) you can do that. Even still, the last few years he'd barely go past 6 innings, and was totally broken down w/ the yanks this year. For comparison sake, Warren Spahn (whose career win total he's threatening) was leading the league in complete games at Clemens age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rorer714 Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 Yeah, you pulled a 3-1 choke job. A much more elegant exit.... I knew that was coming We still took it to seven games which is a bit more formidable than 4 in a row The Sox have become Yankeefied and are just steamrollers anymore.I love to see the small market teams give em' a run for their 'money' I'm not here to give you any shit.I love my team like you do yours and anyone who whoops up on the Sox and the Yankees (especially) is alright with me!....I also miss my man Bartolo,I enjoyed watching him pitch.I know he hasn't been the same since he left here but I'd have him back in a minute,just like Kenny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Klu Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 I'm not here to give you any shit. Awww...wheres the fun in sports then? I rooted for the Indians during that series (i dig the history Paige/Doby/Colavito) so I was pissed that they blew it to my sworn enemy. Bart was a warrior for us. People say he didnt deserve the CY Young that year, but he made the rest of the pitching staff, esp. Lackey grow some balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rorer714 Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 Awww...wheres the fun in sports then? I rooted for the Indians during that series (i dig the history Paige/Doby/Colavito) so I was pissed that they blew it to my sworn enemy. Bart was a warrior for us. People say he didnt deserve the CY Young that year, but he made the rest of the pitching staff, esp. Lackey grow some balls. In the first place it's not baseball season,so I'll be civil I lived in Cleveland in the middle to late 70's (from Mass,so I WAS as Sox fan in the early 70's)Long story...I got to see a lot of games in the old stadium and became a lifelong fan.Baseball history in Cleveland is amazing.That city catches a lot of shit but it is one of the most diversified places that I've ever lived in.....I live in NC now and we live close to the Indians A ball team(Kinston). I saw CC pitch there.Manny played there as well as Thome and Bartolo too(I have a program with him on the cover) I could keep going with the names... I'm ready for spring training Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattmc1973 Posted December 15, 2007 Author Share Posted December 15, 2007 He's been mostly a control pitcher with the split being his K pitch. As long as you're in the high 80's (not fatigued/injured thanks to roids) you can do that. Even still, the last few years he'd barely go past 6 innings, and was totally broken down w/ the yanks this year. For comparison sake, Warren Spahn (whose career win total he's threatening) was leading the league in complete games at Clemens age. He was a control pitcher maybe the last 2 years, but he was always a power pitcher, well into his late 30's and early 40's. His power pitching stayed strong well past most others, due to his strong legs, which steroids would definitely help. Look at his stats in 1997 and 1998 when he won 2 Cy Youngs after leaving Boston. He was 35 and 36 respectively, and had 292 and 271 strikeouts and 20+ wins each year. Then in 2001 when he was 39, he won 20 games again, won the Cy Young, had 200+ strikeouts, and was clocked with a 100 MPH pitch that year. Then in 2004 at the age of 42 he wins another Cy Young, gets another 200+ strikeouts, and is still hitting high 90's on the gun. Lots of natural talent, a great arm, and great control...all true. But he kept his power game going a LONG time by being big and strong with huge leg drive. Did steroids help that? Maybe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Klu Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 He was a control pitcher maybe the last 2 years, but he was always a power pitcher, well into his late 30's and early 40's. His power pitching stayed strong well past most others, due to his strong legs, which steroids would definitely help. Yeah, I meant the last few 'how the hell is he still pitching?' years, but didnt type it that way. As for the gun speeds, I don't tend to believe em. I remember in the late 90's when during a Mo Vaughn/Bart Colon AB, 3 and 2 count, and Colon was trying to blow him away with high heat and Mo was fouling em off. According to the gun he hit 100mph 4 times in a row, and the crowd was going ape shit at the scoreboard readings. Sparky Anderson who was our color guy just said something like 'no way. if thats 100, nolan was going 110.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rorer714 Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 Yeah, I meant the last few 'how the hell is he still pitching?' years, but didnt type it that way. As for the gun speeds, I don't tend to believe em. I remember in the late 90's when during a Mo Vaughn/Bart Colon AB, 3 and 2 count, and Colon was trying to blow him away with high heat and Mo was fouling em off. According to the gun he hit 100mph 4 times in a row, and the crowd was going ape shit at the scoreboard readings. Sparky Anderson who was our color guy just said something like 'no way. if thats 100, nolan was going 110.' I remember him(Bartolo) hitting 103mph and consistantly at 98 even in the eighth after a fairly high pitch count.Bart is a beast though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solar Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 You guys mustn't get the effect of steroids on a pitcher. Let me explain. First off, the arm isn't really used as much as you think in pitching. A good pitcher will only use the arm to guide through a plane. The actual work and generation of power comes from the legs and lower trunk (abs/hips). If a pitcher uses his arm too much, he becomes Mark Prior or Kerry Wood. And as a pitcher gets older, he typically tries to overcompensate his lower body by using his arm more for movement, increasing his injury risk. That said, what steroids DOES help a pitcher with is being able to build mass in their lower body. So whereas Player X is a hitter and is in the weight room working on his biceps/triceps/forearms/shoulders, Player Y the pitcher is doing dips/crunches, on the leg press, doing squats, calf raises, etc. The stronger the lower body, the better push-off they get from the mound. THIS is where performance enhancers help pitchers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattmc1973 Posted December 16, 2007 Author Share Posted December 16, 2007 ^ Pretty much what I said Solar, Clemens remained a power pitcher well into his 40's by having very strong legs and lower body drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solar Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 ^ Pretty much what I said Solar, Clemens remained a power pitcher well into his 40's by having very strong legs and lower body drive. I know, I figured I'd go into a little more depth. It's botheres me that many people don't get the reasoning why/how performance enhancing drugs could help a pitcher. Not to mention it also helps on the wear and tear on the arm and allows for better healing of the shoulder between starts, since throwing a baseball is an unnatural motion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattmc1973 Posted January 3, 2008 Author Share Posted January 3, 2008 Sorry dig_zoso, looks like the A's made another deal, got rid of Nick Swisher today... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE FIRST LEDZEP Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Baseball has been berry berry good to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Klu Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 I guess this furthers our AL West, ALDS-exit dynasty another 5 years.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solar Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Nice deal for the A's. Gio is going to be the next stud arm in Oakland to replace Haren ... and he's a lefty to boot. And Sweeney should be a nice cheap CF who has a good deal of potential. And Swisher would have walked soon anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooney1975 Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 And Swisher would have walked soon anyway. Swisher wasn't going anywhere. Swisher signed a Five-Year deal with the A's last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solar Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Swisher wasn't going anywhere. Swisher signed a Five-Year deal with the A's last year. I had forgotten that they had locked him up long-term (thought he was still arbitration eligible). Then Beane felt that package of players was a lot, because the key numbers Beane likes (OBP/walks) in his moneyball philosophy were going up for Swisher. And he had minimal protection in that lineup. Not to mention how badly they need pitching at the upper levels of Oakland's system. Gio is expected to be a stud. There are rave reviews on De Los Santos. Sweeney I saw at High-A ball a few years ago, and he's got a lot of potential -- live bat, covers a lot of ground in the OF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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