ScarletMacaw Posted April 21, 2013 Author Share Posted April 21, 2013 First, I think we can conclude from this discussion that crime is down in the US (except for some specific areas infested with meth labs, and perhaps the border with Mexico), but crime may be up elsewhere such as parts of Australia and wherever Ally lives (sorry, don't know where the "Fraser River" is). Crime in the US started to rise in the 60s and started to fall in the 90s. Heroin epidemics in the 60s and the 70s fueled crime waves, along with the Baby Boom as young men are more likely to commit crimes. There are various theories for the drop in the 90s. I can say that New York City is vastly safer than it was when I arrived in '89. However, I also think that Ally has a point; the New York City police lie about crime statistics and this has come to light recently as renegade cops have been telling the truth...it is hard to know for sure what exactly the crime rate is. I'll just use my own stats and give you what my perception of reality is and what my union and employers perception of reality is. I've been doing my job for 24yrs and for most of those years I've worked, by choice, what would be considered the least desirable hours, in some of the least desirable areas of the city. The first 15 of those years I never had as much as a threat to my safety, in the last 8 of those years ( I've been off for a year) I've been assaulted three times, once severely. That said, the job has become far less safe for all of my fellow co workers with assaults way up from what they were . This is were stats get interesting for me. Our union has stats on all assaults and our employer has stats on all assaults and since all assaults need to be officially reported, you'd think they'd be roughly the same wouldn't ya. Well, they are not and they're not because both sides have an agenda and would rather politicize the issue than actually do something about it. In my employers case, pay for the necessary protected work station. In my unions case, they just like to maintain a sense of false hope and keep the anger growing. Anyway's, every time I see stats on just about anything, were the fix will cost money, I view them as a method of creating or maintaining a political agenda which very rarely translates into a fix and more often than not, justify's doing absolutely nothing to fix the problem. They can also be used to do just the opposite so no thanks, to me stats just = political agenda. Not much else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagesbow Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 I guess guns makes society safer then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slave to zep Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 because i have always worked in retail, i blame a lot of problems on this notion that everything has to be open all the time. now, hear me out, what i mean is ( and i guess this may not apply in major cities like new york ( ? ) ), both parents didn't always work. most of the time it was the mother at home, and sometimes she had a part-time job, but mostly not ( in my experience ). jobs were mainly 8-5 ish mon-fri, which meant most families had time together! the pubs shut early every night, and only stayed open till 10 or sometimes 12 on fri and sat.CLOSED on sundays! having everything open 24/7 means that people are working/socialising crazy hours, and this has lead to the break-down of the family unit, and society. lots of kids are home alone a lot of the time ...... sorry to quote myself, but .... this was highlighted AGAIN yesterday .... ANZAC Day here in oz .... shops were closed only for the morning, and when the doors opened ..... it was like they had been shut for a month. so sad that people just choose to shop, rather than observe the holiday in other ways .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScarletMacaw Posted April 26, 2013 Author Share Posted April 26, 2013 sorry to quote myself, but .... this was highlighted AGAIN yesterday .... ANZAC Day here in oz .... shops were closed only for the morning, and when the doors opened ..... it was like they had been shut for a month. so sad that people just choose to shop, rather than observe the holiday in other ways .... Well, that's capitalism, isn't it? We've been conditioned to work and shop, work and shop...all for the benefit of those who sell the crap they make us think we have to buy. I've been loosely associated with a group called the Freegans who don't believe in money but in sharing and self-sufficiency...I'm not that hardcore but I try to be frugal. As for the comment and video of Pagesbow, I didn't have patience for the video (shouting people and talking heads, why I seldom watch TV anymore), and obviously from recent events we can see guns don't make us safer; a guy who was questioned by the FBI was able to buy guns to shoot people in Boston, a wacko with a mom with poor judgment took her guns to kill kids in Connecticut...and the US Congress just voted down a measure to do background checks for gun purchases. Wow I am glad I live in New York where we have our own laws about guns...I worried the most about crime when I lived in the South where everyone had a gun...Since moving to NYC I've always just made sure I lived in a highrise with a 24-hour doorman and in an apartment many stories above the ground! I take the subway at midnight; it's perfectly safe, a lot safer than it was driving around in Virginia alone at night...safety in numbers. Another change from the 70s I could rant about is clothing...so much of it is crap now...you have to wear layers because the fabrics are so flimsy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slave to zep Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 Well, that's capitalism, isn't it? We've been conditioned to work and shop, work and shop...all for the benefit of those who sell the crap they make us think we have to buy. I've been loosely associated with a group called the Freegans who don't believe in money but in sharing and self-sufficiency...I'm not that hardcore but I try to be frugal. As for the comment and video of Pagesbow, I didn't have patience for the video (shouting people and talking heads, why I seldom watch TV anymore), and obviously from recent events we can see guns don't make us safer; a guy who was questioned by the FBI was able to buy guns to shoot people in Boston, a wacko with a mom with poor judgment took her guns to kill kids in Connecticut...and the US Congress just voted down a measure to do background checks for gun purchases. Wow I am glad I live in New York where we have our own laws about guns...I worried the most about crime when I lived in the South where everyone had a gun...Since moving to NYC I've always just made sure I lived in a highrise with a 24-hour doorman and in an apartment many stories above the ground! I take the subway at midnight; it's perfectly safe, a lot safer than it was driving around in Virginia alone at night...safety in numbers. Another change from the 70s I could rant about is clothing...so much of it is crap now...you have to wear layers because the fabrics are so flimsy... it's so sad to think that all people can think of to do on public holidays is to go shopping ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stryder1978 Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 (edited) ScarletMacaw, You do realize that the law requiring a background check would have done nothing to prevent the Sandy hook massacre, right? The guns were legally purchased by the mother who would have passed the check. Edited April 26, 2013 by Stryder1978 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine woman Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 it's so sad to think that all people can think of to do on public holidays is to go shopping ..... Well, I mean, maybe it's just me, seeing as I'm probably the least patriotic Australian out, but I don't particularly believe that ANZAC Day defines our nation and embodies our "Aussie spirit". In fact, I'm not supportive of everyone's mentality about it, I think it glorifies war.But yesterday, even though it was a public holiday, I went out to Sydney's city at night with my friends and every shop was open and everyone was out, eating and drinking at the pubs or whatever. And you're right, it is capitalism because there's more choice but that's because the makeup of society has changed and the modern consumer now has more money, but less time and that's why there are so many shops open 24/7. And I definitely appreciate the convienience of 24/7 shops because I made a Macca's run last night at 4am for munchies food and it was absolutely great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagesbow Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 it's so sad to think that all people can think of to do on public holidays is to go shopping ..... But maybe that is one of the reasons Australia has an unbroken 21-year run of economic growth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whoopie Cat Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 Well, I mean, maybe it's just me, seeing as I'm probably the least patriotic Australian out, but I don't particularly believe that ANZAC Day defines our nation and embodies our "Aussie spirit". In fact, I'm not supportive of everyone's mentality about it, I think it glorifies war. ANZAC Day is not only the anniversary of the first major military action fought by Australian and New Zealand forces during the First World War, but it is a day to remember and honour all our men and women who have served our country in military action. Men and women who have sacrificed their lives, or whose families have lost their military husband, wife, father or mother, so that you and I may have a better quality of life and live as we do now. ANZAC Day doesn't glorify war, It honours and thanks those men and women who fought or gave the ultimate sacrifice for their country, for us. Have you not watched those old diggers standing in the freezing cold dawn services, or marching down Martin Place with pride, or watched their eyes as they drift back to their mates left behind on those battlefields? The look on those faces "embodies the Aussies spirit in every way possible" They fought for us .... for you and me. and we honour them on ANZAC Day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 it's so sad to think that all people can think of to do on public holidays is to go shopping ..... I can't speak for the rest of Canada but it's the same here in Vancouver. Public holidays usually end up being some of the biggest shopping days of the year. Like you, I know it's not likely to change but I appreciate where you're coming from. To me, those are days that people should be spending with their families doing something... anything, other than shopping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Duck Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 I think kids today have more academic demands on them than we did when I was growing up in the 60s and 70s. I have a Master's degree but I doubt I could do my 17 year old niece's math homework. In many important ways girls her age have more opportunities for careers, etc. than we did. However, in other ways they also have more demands placed on them. Particularly when it comes to sexual behavior. Boys pressured you for sex when I was coming up but I think it was a lot easier for women of my generation to wait until we felt ready. We didn't have people pressuring us to flash our tits or engage in other provocative behaviors just to entertain guys. Nowadays the demand for young women to be sexual is relentless. Another big change I've noticed is the increased cost of concert tickets. When I was in college (1977-1981) my only source of spending money was a Work Study job that paid minimum wage at 10-12 hours a week and summer jobs at fast food restaurants. However, I could still afford to buy tickets for Queen, Supertramp, Kansas, The Jacksons and Parliament/Funkadelic among others. My recollection is that the increase in concert ticket costs began in the 1980s. When The Jackson's "Victory Tour" came to my hometown in 1984, the cheapest tickets were $60. That was a big jump from their ticket prices when I was in college. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScarletMacaw Posted April 26, 2013 Author Share Posted April 26, 2013 ANZAC Day is not only the anniversary of the first major military action fought by Australian and New Zealand forces during the First World War, but it is a day to remember and honour all our men and women who have served our country in military action. Men and women who have sacrificed their lives, or whose families have lost their military husband, wife, father or mother, so that you and I may have a better quality of life and live as we do now. ANZAC Day doesn't glorify war, It honours and thanks those men and women who fought or gave the ultimate sacrifice for their country, for us. Have you not watched those old diggers standing in the freezing cold dawn services, or marching down Martin Place with pride, or watched their eyes as they drift back to their mates left behind on those battlefields? The look on those faces "embodies the Aussies spirit in every way possible" They fought for us .... for you and me. and we honour them on ANZAC Day. ANZAC Day? I recommend Peter Weir's movie "Gallipoli." World War I was a struggle to divide up the remains of the Ottoman Empire...not a struggle for anyone's freedom. It is very sad people gave their lives for colonialism and empire. Perhaps there should be a day to remember them...I suggest activities such as reading a history book (or watching "Gallipoli"). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slave to zep Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 (edited) Well, I mean, maybe it's just me, seeing as I'm probably the least patriotic Australian out, but I don't particularly believe that ANZAC Day defines our nation and embodies our "Aussie spirit". In fact, I'm not supportive of everyone's mentality about it, I think it glorifies war. But yesterday, even though it was a public holiday, I went out to Sydney's city at night with my friends and every shop was open and everyone was out, eating and drinking at the pubs or whatever. And you're right, it is capitalism because there's more choice but that's because the makeup of society has changed and the modern consumer now has more money, but less time and that's why there are so many shops open 24/7. And I definitely appreciate the convienience of 24/7 shops because I made a Macca's run last night at 4am for munchies food and it was absolutely great. nobody is saying that ANZAC Day defines our nation, it is a day of thanks and remembrance only. no glorification. those poor bastards went through hell! wake up,girl! i have no probs with the cafes/pubs etc opening up in the evening. i am just sick and tired of seeing families traipsing around the centre where i work - babies crying, kids playing up, while mum goes shopping. let me tell you, when it is raining - we are really busy. they come to the centre for something to do/get out of the house. when it's sunny - we are really busy. they go shopping to get out of the heat. SHOPPING, SHOPPING, SHOPPING! i know you have to shop sometimes, but people have forgotten how to be a family. Edited April 26, 2013 by slave to zep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whoopie Cat Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 ANZAC Day? I recommend Peter Weir's movie "Gallipoli." World War I was a struggle to divide up the remains of the Ottoman Empire...not a struggle for anyone's freedom. It is very sad people gave their lives for colonialism and empire. Perhaps there should be a day to remember them...I suggest activities such as reading a history book (or watching "Gallipoli"). ANZAC Day is Australia and New Zealand's day to remember all our men and women who have fought for our country. Whether it be at the Dardanelles in Gallipoli - WW1, Kokoda in PNG - WW2, Vietnam, Afganistan or any war time conflict. It is to honour our fallen diggers and those who have bravely fought for not only their country, but more importantly, those who gave their everything for their mates in conflict. As with any war, there is more to what happens on the battlefields than what is written in the history books. I doubt one single soldier in those trenches gives a flying fuck about what is written in the history books, or for that matter, what they're even fighting for, but are solely focused on completing their mission and then getting themselves and their mates out of there alive. The movie 'Gallipoli' is indeed a powerful movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slave to zep Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 ANZAC Day is Australia and New Zealand's day to remember all our men and women who have fought for our country. Whether it be at the Dardanelles in Gallipoli - WW1, Kokoda in PNG - WW2, Vietnam, Afganistan or any war time conflict. It is to honour our fallen diggers and those who have bravely fought for not only their country, but more importantly, those who gave their everything for their mates in conflict. As with any war, there is more to what happens on the battlefields than what is written in the history books. I doubt one single soldier in those trenches gives a flying fuck about what is written in the history books, or for that matter, what they're even fighting for, but are solely focused on completing their mission and then getting themselves and their mates out of there alive. The movie 'Gallipoli' is indeed a powerful movie. well said, mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZEPFAN17 Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 In a nutshell society has changed drastically from the 70s and now. I grew up in the 70s and things were way different.People had respect for one another there is some of that today but some kids today have no respect at all. These days kids have easier and what I mean by that is they all have computers,cellphones etc which is fine just saying we had none of that. It was just a different way of life back then.I have 5 children and 5 grandchildren and worry for them in this day and age with all this terrorism shit going on and the wars,the whacked out countries with nuclear capabilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stryder1978 Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 If I had to summarize, I'd say since the 70's our society has become selfish, lazy and more ignorant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZEPFAN17 Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 If I had to summarize, I'd say since the 70's our society has become selfish, lazy and more ignorant. I totally agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine woman Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 I was quite hesitant to post my opinion on ANZAC Day, because, well, it's quite controversial and I guess I have a real personal detatchment when it comes to ANZAC Day, because Gallipoli is just an entire other era for me and war is something I've never been effected by.I do acknowledge that ANZAC Day is a day to respect and honour, and I do have the utmost respect for the diggersBUT I don't like all the social constructs we Aussie's have created around ANZAC Day.Our collective obsession with it has completely warped our understanding of Aussie history. I'm in Year 11 right now, and I'll I learnt for four years in high school history classes was about the ANZACs and a very dimunitive and brief covering of Aboriginal history. There's alot more to Australian history then just WWI and I wish that the syllabus would acknowledge it, rather then reduce it all down to the military.Two years ago, I read a book called "What's Wrong With ANZAC?: The Militarisation of Australian History" and the book pretty much argues that ANZAC has become a conservative political force in Australia and questions whether ANZAC’S renowned foreign battles were worth all of the bloodshed.The author is quite frank and brutal with their opinions, but it's very worthwhile to read. I understand that my opinion is quite controversial, and I guess you would probably think it unjustified, but it's just my personal perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine woman Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 I think kids today have more academic demands on them than we did when I was growing up in the 60s and 70s. I have a Master's degree but I doubt I could do my 17 year old niece's math homework. In many important ways girls her age have more opportunities for careers, etc. than we did. However, in other ways they also have more demands placed on them. Particularly when it comes to sexual behavior. Boys pressured you for sex when I was coming up but I think it was a lot easier for women of my generation to wait until we felt ready. We didn't have people pressuring us to flash our tits or engage in other provocative behaviors just to entertain guys. Nowadays the demand for young women to be sexual is relentless. Thank you for acknowledging this!!!!Most people past uni that I talk to about my school workload tell me to stop complaining because "it's not that hard", and I just want to scream at them or make them try doing permutations and combinations. See how they feel afterwards, it's stressful as hell.And yes, you got it! There is so much pressure to be sexual promiscuous and sexually active. Even clothing manufacturers sell tiny little short shorts and bustiers as actual clothing and there's hardly any choice other than revealing clothing for teenage girls. As a young person myself, I actually buy most of my clothing vintage or second hand, because all the clothing they sell these days is just too ridiculously revealing for me to feel comfortable in. Hail to the patriarchy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 If I had to summarize, I'd say since the 70's our society has become selfish, lazy and more ignorant. As a society, probably but, there are plenty of young people out there who are attempting to make a life for themselves and understand what a work ethic is. So many however, are getting nothing and nowhere for their efforts and IMHO, that more than anything, fuels what I call the " fuck it society " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slave to zep Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 As a society, probably but, there are plenty of young people out there who are attempting to make a life for themselves and understand what a work ethic is. So many however, are getting nothing and nowhere for their efforts and IMHO, that more than anything, fuels what I call the " fuck it society " you could be right, ally. there are a lot of good ones out there still what i can't get over is their lack of manners ... i KNOW we weren't that bad. i always called adults mr or mrs ... never ever swore in front of them. i hear young ones talking in the shop - right near other people - and the language is disgusting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sagittarius Rising Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Shit, where do I begin? Society is different for sure, more schizoid from the perspective of sexuality and opinion becoming partizan issues, ok to show a woman brutally raped on TV but heaven forbid they show a realistic love scene with nudity and loving adults...that would damage the "children" however rape is ok???? WTF??? Kids were more carefree, open to new ideas, and could have a descent conversation with an adult. Now, kids stuck their noses into an iPhone and ignore the world. Shit, you wanna see some serious drama go down in any American home today, simply hide your teens phone charger and wait for their phone to run out of juice...that is some funny shit, regular nuclear meltdown. Economics, the middle class were doing pretty well in the 70's, even during the recessions they were doing better than any time of the 2000's. The rich are richer than they have been since the 1890's and the poor are poorer, meanwhile, the middle class is quickly slipping into the ranks of the working poor as wages continue to drop in comparison to CPI and overall price of goods. The wealthy are paying the lowest adjusted tax rate i history, hoarding the loot, and shifting the workforce overseas where manufacturing costs are a fraction of the developed world. Remember the next time you go shopping 90% of those goods were made with either slave labor, child labor, or labor paid at a rate that death is preferable to survival. Ok, sorry, got a bit heavy there. On a lighter note, in 1977 a Zeppelin show was $12 I believe, in 1991 you could see G&R for $22, not a big increase. Then those assholes The Eagles charged $75 a pop for the cheap seats and after that we got the royal fucking. They realized people were stupid enough to shell out that kind of dough and that was that. God damn I miss the 70's. Sure, it was not perfect but it was a far sight better than this shithole era. Sure, the Russkies could have nuked us at any moment but at least that would have been a quick end. Now, it is a slow, malingering death rattle of a society past it's expiration date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 you could be right, ally. there are a lot of good ones out there still what i can't get over is their lack of manners ... i KNOW we weren't that bad. i always called adults mr or mrs ... never ever swore in front of them. i hear young ones talking in the shop - right near other people - and the language is disgusting. Yep, it's always noticable and disappointing when young ones are swearing loudly in public but so many of their parents also exhibit behavior that leaves me shaking my head in dismay. It's not just the public swearing either. It's their conduct towards people in general and their " all about me" attitude that get's me. It's no wonder so many of their kids think it's okay to do the same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine woman Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 ^Thank youI feel as though adults go on and on about how bad teenagers are, but they're the ones that raised us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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