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dazedandconfused1997

George Starostin's review of the Led Zeppelin catalogue

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The reviewer does demonstrate a good understanding of the subject but I just don't agree with his opinions.

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I will agree,it bothers me that he states his opinion as a fact and that he's calling every song that needs a bit more listening as bad.I mean,take a look at his reviews of other bands' albums.He states some good facts and then he just goes to tell us his opinion without even a bit of objectivity.

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He kind of lost me at:

"Jimmy Page wasn't actually a newly-emerged Seventies star, like the whole prog rock generation. Instead, he was hanging around for the whole Sixties, doing almost nothing"

Doing almost nothing except playing on 50 to 90 percent of the records released in England during 1963–65. Whether that figure is completely accurate - I don't know - but certainly he wasn't sitting on his arse much during that period.

Edited by Pagesbow

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eemmmm Never heard Spirits "Taurus" - a band I quiet like. So I've just put it on. Crikey. It does have a fleeting similarity to Stairway to Heaven. :ohmy:

Couldn't be arsed to read all his reviews but suffice to say giving 5 stars to Presence and saying that the 2nd album finishes on a "Horrendous Note" with Bring It On Home, means the man is seriously misguided.

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eemmmm Never heard Spirits "Taurus" - a band I quiet like. So I've just put it on. Crikey. It does have a fleeting similarity to Stairway to Heaven. :ohmy:

Really?

Also: Sharing a chord progression is not theft.

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I didn't say it was theft. I merely stated that Spirits song had a "fleeting similarity" to Stairway. Hang on let me give it another listen. emmmm ?

http://youtu.be/xd8AVbwB_6E

Sorry, I wasn't actually directing that at you -- that was directed at the detractors. Is there a similarity/influence? I think it's safe to say so. I wouldn't go so far (as some do) to call it theft, though.

I was more surprised that you've never heard about that before.

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Right off the bat he uses adjectives like "glam", "punk", and "satanic" and says Page "had little songwriting talent. :slapface::rolleyes:

When I read the ''little songwriting talent'' bit,I was like :o wtf is he saying? :P

Edited by dazedandconfused1997

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eemmmm Never heard Spirits "Taurus" - a band I quiet like. So I've just put it on. Crikey. It does have a fleeting similarity to Stairway to Heaven. :ohmy:

Couldn't be arsed to read all his reviews but suffice to say giving 5 stars to Presence and saying that the 2nd album finishes on a "Horrendous Note" with Bring It On Home, means the man is seriously misguided.

Guess you won't have heard this then, either....

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Sorry, I wasn't actually directing that at you -- that was directed at the detractors. Is there a similarity/influence? I think it's safe to say so. I wouldn't go so far (as some do) to call it theft, though.

I was more surprised that you've never heard about that before.

Maybe I have my Canadian friend. Probably forgot about it.

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I've read up to Physical Grafitti. Ten Years Gone "filler"? Led Zep not as talented as the Stones?! Led Zeppelin IV "fake and commercially pretentious"?!?! What is wrong with this guy?! :slapface:

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I read all of George Starotsin's reviews of various rock bands a few years ago. He's a tough critic and Led Zeppelin isn't the only band to take a hit from him. However, he does seem fairly knowledgeable about popular music and has obviously listened carefully to the music he reviewed. Thus, I don't reject his opinions out of hand even if I don't agree with them. Some of his comments are insightful. For example: he opined that Queen's genius was to combine rock with English music hall. An astute observation, imo.

That being said, Sarotsin has gaps in his knowledge of either Page's career and/or the music business. Either he isn't aware of Page's years as a session musician or doesn't realize how significant it was that he was in such demand by various producers at such a young age. Then again, Sarotsin's reviews focus more on Page the songwriter than Page the guitarist.

Edited by Disco Duck

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Guess you won't have heard this then, either....

Zeppelin was not influenced by Crow. They were both influenced by Davey Graham.

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Zeppelin was not influenced by Crow. They were both influenced by Davey Graham.

I am aware of this. My inference was perhaps not very clear: I was just suggesting that Taurus and Stairway aren't the only two songs to sound alike/use a descending minor progression. In fact I did video a while back to highlight this fact; which I just updated to include "Let it Grow" by Eric Clapton so I lost all all my initial views.

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Sorry for bringing up the topic again,but I can't help it :P . Look what he says about David Gilmour's playing:

''There is one major defect about Floyd - whether it be Barrett-led Floyd or Waters-led Floyd (and I don't even mention the Gilmour-led Floyd). These guys are (and were) very average musicians and so-so songwriters. Let's face it, the group never had a true musical virtuoso. Waters' bass playing is just okay, Wright and Mason don't qualify above your average session musicians, and Barrett's talents, you must admit, weren't in the sphere of picking the guitar. As for Gilmour, well, I just don't like the guy's guitar - I consider it generic and soulless. All of his 'classic' solos are so mathematically precise, counted out and adjusted that it almost makes me sick. He's no Steve Howe, and he's not even Steve Hackett. He's Dave, like we all know him: slow, meticulous and calculated. He's got some truly great guitar passages in his backpack (my favourite work of his is mostly located on Dark Side and Animals), but he also has a lot of pointless noodling, and he often selects the kind of generic highly distorted, yet not really 'heavy' guitar tone that I can't call anything but 'musical dentistry'. Sorry, Dave.''

I mean,ok,I don't expect him to praise gilmour's playing since he doesn't like it,but really,''generic and soulless''??Also look what he says about Page's style:

the Stones are the pinnacle of rock'n'roll, having demonstrated far more creativity within the genre than almost any of their contemporaries or followers - the vivid, wonderfully syncopated, 'breathing', 'dangerous' guitar stylistics of Keith Richards is far more impressive than the technically perfect, but cold and rigid style of Jimmy Page, and is a near-perfect embodiment of the 'rock'n'roll spirit

really?

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I wrote detailed comments to this guy for every Zep album under name SamoKodela, because he really offended me and I think I shure told some things well to him and gave him some flame!

Edited by Matjaz1

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the Stones are the pinnacle of rock'n'roll, having demonstrated far more creativity within the genre than almost any of their contemporaries or followers -

The Beatles have demonstrated far bigger creativity over a shorter period of time.

Edited by Geezer

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I wrote detailed comments to this guy for every Zep album under name SamoKodela, because he really offended me and I think I shure told some things well to him and gave him some flame!

That's nice ;) your comments brought some balance to starostin's article .

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Thanks!

I think he has got it all quite mixed up!

He overaccuses them of plagiarism, is not capable of consuming Zeppelin type of melodies and seems to not be interested in virtuosity and complex arrangements in rock music at all! That's why he likes the Beatles so much, I guess, because he can whistle along and does not have to listen to instrumental passages!

And he is not opened to various genres that Zeppelin covered! He is convinced that the first album is the best and as soon as they went away from the blues it got worse nad worse, which is just bullshit and they got far away from the blues on the first anyway, because they played other genres and because they played the blues in a unique way!

So he has got all this messed up and he backs it with some insults and lack of a good arguments! Plus he is not a renowned critic, he just writes an internet site with reviews and thinks how clever he is!

Edited by Matjaz1

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Sorry for bringing up the topic again,but I can't help it :P . Look what he says about David Gilmour's playing:

''There is one major defect about Floyd - whether it be Barrett-led Floyd or Waters-led Floyd (and I don't even mention the Gilmour-led Floyd). These guys are (and were) very average musicians and so-so songwriters. Let's face it, the group never had a true musical virtuoso. Waters' bass playing is just okay, Wright and Mason don't qualify above your average session musicians, and Barrett's talents, you must admit, weren't in the sphere of picking the guitar. As for Gilmour, well, I just don't like the guy's guitar - I consider it generic and soulless. All of his 'classic' solos are so mathematically precise, counted out and adjusted that it almost makes me sick. He's no Steve Howe, and he's not even Steve Hackett. He's Dave, like we all know him: slow, meticulous and calculated. He's got some truly great guitar passages in his backpack (my favourite work of his is mostly located on Dark Side and Animals), but he also has a lot of pointless noodling, and he often selects the kind of generic highly distorted, yet not really 'heavy' guitar tone that I can't call anything but 'musical dentistry'. Sorry, Dave.''

I mean,ok,I don't expect him to praise gilmour's playing since he doesn't like it,but really,''generic and soulless''??Also look what he says about Page's style:

the Stones are the pinnacle of rock'n'roll, having demonstrated far more creativity within the genre than almost any of their contemporaries or followers - the vivid, wonderfully syncopated, 'breathing', 'dangerous' guitar stylistics of Keith Richards is far more impressive than the technically perfect, but cold and rigid style of Jimmy Page, and is a near-perfect embodiment of the 'rock'n'roll spirit

really?

Gilmour has many great solos and mathematically precise, counted out and adjusted are such general, ambiguous terms they can mean a ton of things, good or bad, so that is just bullshit! Fort example mathematically precise and counted out is something that mostly relates to being laid well on the rhytm and music can always be descriped mathematically so he is just bullshiting!

And how the fuck can he complain about them not being virtuosos? He never complained about it when he talked about The Beatles! Sure he mentioned it, but it was never a big deal, but when it's not his favourite band virtuosity is automatically required? What an asshole! Especially since there are quite a few moments of virtuosity in Pink Floyd and some really great songwriting!

Sorry for the yellow color, I copy pasted a part and it just appeared!

Edited by Matjaz1

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