Why should I listen to any 1980 recordings?

[wilsoncb420]

I am young, a classically trained and have a degree in violin performance, and consider myself to know maybe couple things about music (I think). I am 23 and bought HTWWW and DVD the day they both came out, and torrented shows on Presence server back around then.

My point: I have listened to and enjoyed every tour except for 1980. I have studied and done my homework, and listening. Is this normal? I f-king love both the Knebworth gigs, Copenhagen warmups even more, love '77 front to back. And every single other show I have.

Any advice out there? I'd love to discover something new from the best band ever. Which shows have the best quality, performance, and BALLS? Standout parts of shows, or songs? Help me stop thinking that this Zep is a COVER BAND! A cover band on crap recordings! I just want some help, people!

Recommend! Help!

[magerogue]

Well first of all Led Zeppelin is NOT a cover band, don't know where you got that idea from. You should listen to Zurich 1980, that's a really good show.

[tmtomh]

I feel your pain. The 1980 soundboard tapes are really dry. In addition, Page was still a bit of a mess, quite sloppy. And the band was trying to get back to basics - so the set list was stripped down, losing much of the complexity and excess, but also some of the interest, of the 1977 shows.

That said, Zurich (June 29) and Frankfurt (June 30) are widely considered the best shows, and I recommend them both. I made a personal Best of 1980 compilation with 18 tracks, a full set, and that's all I listen to now. Eleven of the tracks are from either Zurich or Frankfurt.

For the other seven tracks, I recommend the following:

Nobody's Fault but Mine: Cologne (18 June)

Hot Dog: Rotterdam (21 June; only time Page ever nailed the solo)

Since I've Been Loving You: Brussels (20 June)

Rock & Roll: Berlin (7 July)

Heartbreaker: Rotterdam

Communication Breakdown: Mannheim (3 July)

Whole Lotta Love: Berlin

I also recommend sticking them all in an audio editor and adding a little reverb and (if you're not listening to a version that's already been EQ'd), bumping up the bass in the 40-80Hz region.

Definitely their weakest tour, but I would say worth another listen.

Edited May 9, 2013 by tmtomh

[Wolfman]

Trampled Under Foot and In The Evening from certain shows are excellent.

[the chase]

if you love both Knebworth gigs...1980 material shouldn't really faze you too much...

every band has high points and not so high points.. or too high points...

I like what Zeppelin were trying to do in 1980.. trim away some of the fat and play more songs. Jimmy and Bonzo were in rough shape but the intentions were good.. I honestly think the USA tour would have been real good. .

Edited May 9, 2013 by the chase

[wilsoncb420]

thanks, actually, you all replied info i hoped to hear. I have considered that maybe they were headed down the "80's" path, or just changing things up, but every second i have heard has been awful. meaning I didn't explore different parts of every show. thanks to tmtomh especially.

others, any brief 2 cent words of advice?

[Melcórë]

Help me stop thinking that this Zep is a COVER BAND! A cover band on crap recordings!

At first, I thought you meant because they weren't playing original material on that tour -- which would be patently false, of course. What you actually mean, though, is that they sound like a cover band...well, if you really feel that way, you're probably already a lost cause.

Think of the 1980 tour as what it was: A difficult period in the band's career, mired in continued heavy alcohol and drug use...and yet a period in which they still had hope. They were searching for that next great sound, they were still a band...

Zurich 1980 is a great show. The 1980 tour isn't "bad," you just need to have your historical/contextual headphones on.

[Nutrocker]

I can offer up this discussion:

http://forums.ledzeppelin.com/index.php?/topic/19312-led-zeppelin-over-europe-1980/

Bottom line: the 1980 tour definitely has its moments (both good and bad) but if yer expecting How The West Was Won style live Led Zeppelin, you'll be in for a hell of a shock...

Be that as it may, though, as others have already mentioned in this discussion, Zurich 29/6/80 is one of the classic Zeppelin performances. Berlin 7/7/80 may not be a classic performance (hell, there are those who would argue that it isn't even a good performance) but it is worth hearing for its historical significance as the final performance by the original band.

Edited May 9, 2013 by Nutrocker

[ListenToThis]

I would opine that to the most hardcore of Zeppelin fans Over Europe ranks as just another essential part of Zeppelin's existence, no less important than Euro '73 or Earl's Court. It is quite simply a fascinating time in the band's journey, unlike any other. It does require the listener to give thought and conscious effort when enjoying the shows, thus it is not recommended for the casual fan or beginner.

There are many moments of greatness. The issue with the tour is that there are unfortunately only a few nights where both Bonham and Page were on at the same time. As others have mentioned Zurich is indeed strong, although I would argue Frankfurt is even stronger. Munich is not to be missed either.

Reinforcing the need to be a dedicated fan is that most people only hear the non-remastered soundboards, which as indicated are often dry and further incomplete to boot. To appropriately study and put into context what the band was trying to accomplish an appropriately tuned board or better yet a slightly ragged audience recording is the only way to fly.

'73 Zeppelin sounds different from '69 Zeppelin. No one seems to assert that they were "better" in '73 than '69, but rather just different. The same can be said of '80, it is different, but "worse" is an inappropriate summary as well.

Yes, they did drugs. Whoop dee doo. I don't comment on Euro '73 much because I've only listened to two or three of the shows. But many love to comment on '80, all the while having heard perhaps one or two of the performances. I've listened to ever Over Europe gig, and I find enjoyable aspects in all.

To each his own...

[greenman]

I feel your pain. The 1980 soundboard tapes are really dry. In addition, Page was still a bit of a mess, quite sloppy. And the band was trying to get back to basics - so the set list was stripped down, losing much of the complexity and excess, but also some of the interest, of the 1977 shows.

Personally my feeling is that trimming the excess also limated what mid/late 70's Page was best at live. To me from around US 73 you start to hear more of a divide in the quality of his playing, the solo's/jamming while perhaps not always as tight remain interesting almost all of the time where as the standard runthoughs become less consistent and energetic.

[chef free]

You should listen to the 1980 tour to hear Frankfurt! It is an excellent show, the Whole Lotta Love is great, it has a great Theremin Duel and the jam section includes the "Frankfurt Special" jam. Plus a rare version of Money and some very funny Plantations refering to the band's age. (Dinosaur!)

[phredzeppelin63]

LED ZEPPELIN was 1000% better on their worst nights than bands like the rolling stones and every other band out there are on their best nights! the only other rock band I have ever heard that is in the same neighborhood as led zeppelin was live is RUSH! if you are satisfied with what you have heard so far,listen to the 1980s recordings.they will blow you away!

[Sue Dounim]

Ay baby, it's all Zep, so it's all good to me.

I agree about Munich, btw.

[wilsoncb420]

is it? or is it their ghosts?

[Strider]

The main problem with the 1980 tour...apart from the state of Jimmy and Bonzo and the inconsistent, and(let's be honest) sometimes disastrous, playing...is that the equipment of the band and the way the soundboards were recorded makes the listening experience even worse.

Jones played those twangy Alembic basses, which tended to sound better in the room than on tape; Jimmy's guitar rig didn't have colour and warmth it used to have; it tends to sound harsh and metallic; and the less said about Plant's over-reliance on the harmonizer, the better. In all, the 80s soundboards just sound like crap, whether the performance is good or not.

Which, ironically, is the same problem many albums of the 80s have: good performances ruined by shitty production. The 1980s seems to be the decade where record producers and instrument manufacturers all lost their collective minds. Everyone started using those shitty synth drums or drum machines, guitars sounded like crap, everything started getting over-compressed. It was a bad decade for sound. I mean, Prince's "Sign O the Times" is a great record; but it would sound much better if it had been produced in the 1970s...actually, most of Prince's work from the 80s would sound better with 70s production values.

Chiming in with others recommendations, if you can get past the sound of the soundboards, Frankfurt and Zurich are the best bets of the 1980 tour...and I'd add "Trampled Underfoot" from Berlin for sheer cosmic lunacy value. Actually, Berlin is worth a listen just for historical sake.

Edited May 11, 2013 by Strider

[Nutrocker]

^^^

I'm gonna say Strider pretty much nailed it. Kinda makes you glad that there wasn't an 80's Zeppelin album...Plant and Page both ended up buying into the "80's production values" (witness Shaken N Stirred and the Firm albums) with less than stellar results. Led Zeppelin's records had a very organic sound to them (see my comments on Page's production skills elsewhere in the forum) and I think that would have gotten lost in translation in the eighties, as the sounds featured on the Europe '80 tour prove. The instruments just don't sound all that pleasant on the soundboards; there's no balls to the sound at all...IMO Page's choices for guitar tone, Plant's harmonizer and some of Jonesy's keyboard sounds seem pretty questionable in retrospect.

[LedZebedee]

and some very funny Plantations refering to the band's age. (Dinosaur!)

Plant's dinosaur comments ie "preserve the dinosaur" and "let's do the dinosaur rock" were in reference to the British music press who were labelling them "the last irrelevant dinosaurs of rock" and (gulp!) "worst band in the world" around 79/80. "Return of the dinosaur" was the headline when the tour was announced. I remember Jones wearing a rock against journalism badge during this period.

[And You Know How It Is?]

I'm taking a different view of why 1980 Europe was way worth a listen: it's not just Zurich, Frankfurt and Munich. It absolutely is also Brussels and Rotterdam (despite the audience). Vienna is good, despite the firecracker incident. Sheer enthusiasm to get back on the road meant great Dortmond and Cologne shows (especially the first night and the WLL/Heartbreaker/WLL one time arrangement).

So where does 1980 Europe fail: in boring towns for the band! Think about it...first really uneven show is Bremen on the 23rd, followed by Hannover (which we addressed on another live 1980 thread). Mannheim - really uneven both nights, and another spot, like Hannover, where Robert didn't have fun. That really leaves Nuremburg as the only what if, and that show lasted 3 songs, and based on those 3 songs, probably wouldn't have been a good show.

Berlin to me, as nostalgic as it was, was also an indication of where the 1980 US Tour Part One would have gone: more jams like the old days, but not as long. So, TU, WLL, Stairway, yes they would have been stretched. Add the one or two new numbers like Carouselambra or Wearing and Tearing, and the US tour would easily average 2.5 hour nights, versus 1 hr 50 min or 2 hours length shows like most Europe nights (and those 1980 US shows would not be a much of a drop off from the US audience expectations of 3 hour nightly sets based on previous US tours).

All in all, Europe 1980 had more solid moments than not and is essential listening (especially if you call yourself a Zep fan). In my mind, Zep would have easily reclaimed their US glory on those initial 17 dates in 30 days that October and November of 1980!

[ListenToThis]

^^^

Well said

[Reverend Alabaster]

There are some great 1980 shows, but even with those, I always feel that there's something 'missing'.

What you have to bear in mind is this was the first tour where they were touring a lacklustre album. All their other albums had substantial new material which enhanced the contemporary setlists, but you can't objectively say that about Out Door.

Plus Jimmy's attitude, of course - if he was so far gone that he couldn't even be bothered to put his heart into the album, why would he feel any differently about touring it?

[ZeppMan93]

I thoroughly enjoy the 1980 recordings. The concerts might have been not as great as previous tours, but nevertheless they are worth a listen because it shows that although all of them are in their 30s and showing some faults that they can still put on a kickass show among the many other popular bands emerging around that time. If you think about it, around the time they were touring Europe, Judas Priest was touring their British Steel album.

[greenman]

There are some great 1980 shows, but even with those, I always feel that there's something 'missing'.

What you have to bear in mind is this was the first tour where they were touring a lacklustre album. All their other albums had substantial new material which enhanced the contemporary setlists, but you can't objectively say that about Out Door.

Its probabley my least favourite Zep album but I'm not sure I'd call it "lacklustre", I think the problem was more than outside of In The Evening the album wasn't very easy to reproduce live, at least in typical Zep "tight but loose" 4 man only terms.

[Walter]

Its probabley my least favourite Zep album but I'm not sure I'd call it "lacklustre", I think the problem was more than outside of In The Evening the album wasn't very easy to reproduce live, at least in typical Zep "tight but loose" 4 man only terms.

C'mon Greenman, it's just Nick slamming ITTOD.....AGAIN! Look at any of the previous threads about that disc and you'll see all of his various names/opinions echoing this one.

[Walter]

Personally I really enjoy listening to Brussels, Zurich and Frankfurt for a change of pace. The set list is so different than their previous tours, it's refreshing. IMO. I love Train...going into NFBM. Like the new songs being played, could do without SIBLY and WS. Trampled is fantastic and so was Achillies. If anyone is a Zeppelin fan past "Stairway" and the other radio classics, you've gotta at least check out those shows I mentioned, IMO.

[Nutrocker]

Personally I really enjoy listening to Brussels, Zurich and Frankfurt for a change of pace. The set list is so different than their previous tours, it's refreshing. IMO. I love Train...going into NFBM. Like the new songs being played, could do without SIBLY and WS. Trampled is fantastic and so was Achillies. If anyone is a Zeppelin fan past "Stairway" and the other radio classics, you've gotta at least check out those shows I mentioned, IMO.

You nailed it Walter. Sure, there were certainly some iffy moments for the boys in 1980 -more than any other tour, I think we'd all agree- but then they were able to pull shows like Zurich and Frankfurt outta the hat just to remind people that when they were on the fucking ball Zeppelin could still kick some ass on stage. Play Frankfurt '80 for any naysayer and they'll be eating their goddamn Hush Puppies by the end of it, I guarantee you.