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JaredR59
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Sorry, but if your audio standards for bootlegs are so persnickety that 2/12/75 is your minimum level of tolerance, then I'm afraid I can't help you. More's the pity, as there are some mighty amazing shows with very good sound quality I'd like to recommend...6/23/77 For Badgeholders Only; 6/21/77 Listen to This, Eddie; 9/14/71 Going to California; 3/7/70 Montreux; 4/24/69 & 4/27/69 Fillmore West; 10/10/69 L'Olympia.

But I'm afraid you'd find them sub-standard if "Four Blocks..." is your baseline.

Not sure if I chose the wrong recordings but the Badgeholders and Listen to this Eddie I sampled didn't sound good to me at all as far as audio quality.

In addition to the Four Blocks, I just downloaded a few different versions of Southampton 1-22-1973 and some of them sounded very good. Not sure how these two stack up to the others you're suggesting that I haven't heard?

For many of these I'm seeing a lot of different versions. Can you tell me which is regarded as the cleanest and clearest sounding for each?

9-14-7:

Cobra Standard Series 031

dadgad

Electric Junk LZ-1992-1

Presence

3-7-70:

Charisma 2nd Edition (Tarantura)

Complete Whole Lotta Love dadgad

Divinity (Bong Song)

Divinity (Atlantic Ocean Records)

Intimidator (EVSD)

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Are you DEAF??? 6-21 & 6-23 2 OF THE BEST BOOTS!!!

Not sure if I chose the wrong recordings but the Badgeholders and Listen to this Eddie I sampled didn't sound good to me at all as far as audio quality.

In addition to the Four Blocks, I just downloaded a few different versions of Southampton 1-22-1973 and some of them sounded very good. Not sure how these two stack up to the others you're suggesting that I haven't heard?

For many of these I'm seeing a lot of different versions. Can you tell me which is regarded as the cleanest and clearest sounding for each?

9-14-7:

Cobra Standard Series 031

dadgad

Electric Junk LZ-1992-1

Presence

3-7-70:

Charisma 2nd Edition (Tarantura)

Complete Whole Lotta Love dadgad

Divinity (Bong Song)

Divinity (Atlantic Ocean Records)

Intimidator (EVSD)

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Have to say absolutely love Flying Circus NYC... Not only is the dazed and confused version a cracker (albeit slightly long), has the best live version (that I have heard) of over the hills & far away & black dog... could play it over and over and over... wait let me rephrase that I have been playing it over and over and over

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Eddie only has one audience source shot by the great Mike Millard. All of his recordings are great. What's your issue with Listen to This, Eddie? It's probably one of the greatest sounding audience recordings of Zep.

It's possible that what I listened to was a messed up copy but more likely I'm just never going to enjoy a pure audience recording.

As I said earlier, outside of official live recordings which are always professionally mastered off of soundboards the only bootleg I've heard so far that has excited me personally happens to be a soundboard and audience matrix.

Trust me, being this "persnickety" as Strider put it is surely a curse not a blessing. I don't think that my ears are somehow "superior" and I'd be able to enjoy a lot more audio in all sorts of settings if fidelity wasn't something I'm so sensitive to.

I'm downloading a few sample tracks from a variety of Badge Holders (6-21) rips now. They may all come from the same original source but there are definitely a ton of different versions for me to choose from out here… Silver Rarities Master Series, Diagrams of Led Zeppelin, EVSD, Wendy Records, Scorpio, Winston Remasters, and more.

It may well be that I'm just too spoiled by commercially produced live recordings, and if so perhaps it's just best if I ask more specifically...

What are the absolute best sounding 100% sound board recordings and/or soundboard/audience matrixes?

For me personally, it's fun hearing the crowd, but I'll choose super clean sound off the board over that any day. I personally care much more about the performance and how well it's captured than the crowd screaming.

Are you DEAF??? 6-21 & 6-23 2 OF THE BEST BOOTS!!!

WHAT??? SORRY, can't hear what you're saying over the DEAFENING sound of your assholery. :wave:

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Have to say absolutely love Flying Circus NYC... Not only is the dazed and confused version a cracker (albeit slightly long), has the best live version (that I have heard) of over the hills & far away & black dog... could play it over and over and over... wait let me rephrase that I have been playing it over and over and over

That's just the EVSD release of the same show as Four Blocks in the Snow and That's Alright New York? (2-12) Do you feel it's somehow superior to the other two?

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Aagh yes good point.. To be fair I have both and cant hear any distinct difference in quality..

I am also a fan of Destroyer however the sound quality isn't anywhere near as good as Flying Circus/ Four blocks..

Side question, any reason why there appears to be no live versions of when the levee breaks?..

I found an alternate version of the original which is a studio version and fantastic I might add but nothing live.. would love to hear to see how it sounded live

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is it me or does godfathers' releases sound like a certain "remasterer" that has long been active in the Zep boot community? It sounds like this one individuals remasters, but I don't want to say their name. Now they just sell their remasters I guess?

just sayin'

Are you talking about that guy who put out those great-sounding "Genuine Masters" dvd-audio releases or that Wilson guy?

WTLB is out there. Was only played the first few weeks of the '75 tour and the recordings of those shows are not the best. No SB's with Levee shows. :(

That we know of. I, myself, find it hard to believe that the band would go to the trouble of soundboarding St. Louis and Baton Rouge and NOT Chicago. We have soundboards from just about every major stop(New York/Nassau, LA, Seattle, Vancouver, Dallas, St. Louis, Baton Rouge) of the 1975 tour. Why wouldn't they have taped Chicago...or Philadelphia and Montreal, for that matter?

Somebody is hoarding those tapes. Or those remain among the few that weren't stolen from Jimmy's cache.

Edited by Strider
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there are some mighty amazing shows with very good sound quality I'd like to recommend...9/14/71 Going to California; 3/7/70 Montreux; 4/24/69 & 4/27/69 Fillmore West; 10/10/69 L'Olympia.

But I'm afraid you'd find them sub-standard if "Four Blocks..." is your baseline.

Asked for a bit more information about some of your recommendations above earlier?

Can you please share which releases of those shows you would actually recommend?

Not sure if I chose the wrong recordings but the Badgeholders and Listen to this Eddie I sampled didn't sound good to me at all as far as audio quality.

In addition to the Four Blocks, I just downloaded a few different versions of Southampton 1-22-1973 and some of them sounded very good. Not sure how these two stack up to the others you're suggesting that I haven't heard?

For many of these I'm seeing a lot of different versions. Can you tell me which is regarded as the cleanest and clearest sounding for each?

9-14-71:

Cobra Standard Series 031

dadgad

Electric Junk LZ-1992-1

Presence

3-7-70:

Charisma 2nd Edition (Tarantura)

Complete Whole Lotta Love dadgad

Divinity (Bong Song)

Divinity (Atlantic Ocean Records)

Intimidator (EVSD)

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Are you talking about that guy who put out those great-sounding "Genuine Masters" dvd-audio releases or that Wilson guy?

That we know of. I, myself, find it hard to believe that the band would go to the trouble of soundboarding St. Louis and Baton Rouge and NOT Chicago. We have soundboards from just about every major stop(New York/Nassau, LA, Seattle, Vancouver, Dallas, St. Louis, Baton Rouge) of the 1975 tour. Why wouldn't they have taped Chicago...or Philadelphia and Montreal, for that matter?

Somebody is hoarding those tapes. Or those remain among the few that weren't stolen from Jimmy's cache.

I completely agree. Those shows would've been taped too, I'm sure. Interesting that early shows from '77 haven't really shown up either (audience or SB).
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Asked for a bit more information about some of your recommendations above earlier?

Can you please share which releases of those shows you would actually recommend?

NuMystic, I think one problem might be the fact that you are downloading these shows. God only knows what bit rate and source the person who uploaded the file used. Or even if it's correct or complete song and/or show. Then, there's the virus problem.

And I know your 'persnickety' ears are a curse not a blessing, hehe. One of the greatest Led Zeppelin concerts of all time is the evening show of September 19, 1970. But you'd never be able to enjoy it because of the poor sound quality. The same with another smoking hot show: July 20, 1973 Boston.

I do have a question...are you able to listen to mono records? Because I find some of the Millard recordings have better sound and fidelity than many early Rolling Stones albums and other records of the 50s-60s. Because of the way Millard recorded his shows, the audience doesn't interfer with the music as it does on the average audience tape.

Besides, soundboards don't give you any more clearer picture of what the band sounded like than a good audience tape. The sound coming into the soundboard wasn't necessarily the sound that the audience heard coming out of the PA.

I'd rather listen to the audience of Seattle '73 than the dry, brittle soundboard.

As for my sources, for 6.23.77 "For Badgeholders Only", I listen to my original Dragonfly vinyl, the Genuine Masters DVD-A, or my Scorpio label cd. I have heard that the Sgt. Pepper's Badgeholders Club release is supposed to be good, too.

For 6.21.77, I have EVSDs Christmas Edition of "Listen to This, Eddie" and the Genuine Masters DVD-A.

For 4.24.69, I have Godfatherecords "Dancing Avocado". This is especially nice because you really get to hear Jones and Bonzo clearly...as long as you don't mind Plant low in the mix.

For 10.10.69, I use Godfatherecords "L'Olympia".

For 9.14.71, I use my "Going to California" vinyl, or "Pollution Alert", "California Expedition", or "Berkeley Daze: 2nd Night" on cds. A warning...the first song "Immigrant Song" is average SQ, then the quality vastly improves in "Heartbreaker" as the taper realized he had his machine in mono and switched to stereo.

1.22.73, my preferred choice is Godfatherecords "Any Port in a Storm".

For 3.7.70 I have EVSD's "Intimidator".

For 2.16.75, I have Godfatherecords "Rock Saint Louis Roll".

Edited by Strider
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Perhaps you would enjoy the Winston Remaster of 1977/06/21. It's called 'Mike the Mike 6-21-77'. It cleans up the sound quite nicely and sounds better than any of the myriads of bootleg releases. Same for the Winston Remaster of 1977/04/27 and 1979/08/04. I'm sure someone's already recommended 1969/08/31.

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I'm downloading a few sample tracks from a variety of Badge Holders (6-21) rips now. They may all come from the same original source but there are definitely a ton of different versions for me to choose from out here… Silver Rarities Master Series, Diagrams of Led Zeppelin, EVSD, Wendy Records, Scorpio, Winston Remasters, and more.

It may well be that I'm just too spoiled by commercially produced live recordings, and if so perhaps it's just best if I ask more specifically...

What are the absolute best sounding 100% sound board recordings and/or soundboard/audience matrixes?

For me personally, it's fun hearing the crowd, but I'll choose super clean sound off the board over that any day. I personally care much more about the performance and how well it's captured than the crowd screaming.

Trouble with a lot of the straight dry soundboard recordings is that they capture the performance with a little too much clarity on occassion...I'm specifically thinking of the 1977 and 1980 soundboard tapes where the myriad of sloppy playing by Jimmy Page come through a little too clearly. Two examples- Seattle '77 and Berlin '80: from the audience tapes they sound like fucking awesome performances; hear the soundboards and you can hear all too well what a bad night Page was having.

As for the best sounding versions of the 21/6/77 and 23/6/77 shows -and this is strictly IMO- but you want to find the WINSTON REMASTERS Mike The Mike version of the 21/6 show, it'll trump just about any official live album yer ever gonna hear. As for the 23/6 you want a version that uses the original "Dragonfly" vinyl recording...of the five audience sources available for that show that one is by far the best (even better than Mike Millard's, who missed the first few songs); off the top of my head, vinyl rips of the old Dragonly For Badgeholders Only Vols 1 & 2 are available on at least a couple of different live music torrent sites and/or blogs.

(EDIT: D'oh, Sue, you beat me to it! :lol: )

To get accustomed to live bootleg recordings you really need to have "bootleg ears". I mean, it's no brainer that a recording like Four Blocks In The Snow is gonna sound brilliant...but to really acclimate yerself to live boots you have to hear something like Sue's aforementioned 10/4/77 Chicago recording; that tape really is pretty fuckin' lousy (overloaded and muddy) but if you can actually listen to it than you can just about listen to anything...live bootleg listening/appreciation isn't really a hobby that caters to audiophiles :lol:

Edited by Nutrocker
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WTLB is out there. Was only played the first few weeks of the '75 tour and the recordings of those shows are not the best. No SB's with Levee shows. :(

The 12/1/75 Brussels live rehearsal and 20/1/75 Chicago recordings (especially the alternate source that popped up a few years back) aren't that bad...at least you can make out the live "When The Levee Breaks" and IMO it wasn't really a song that translated too well to live performance.

That we know of. I, myself, find it hard to believe that the band would go to the trouble of soundboarding St. Louis and Baton Rouge and NOT Chicago. We have soundboards from just about every major stop(New York/Nassau, LA, Seattle, Vancouver, Dallas, St. Louis, Baton Rouge) of the 1975 tour. Why wouldn't they have taped Chicago...or Philadelphia and Montreal, for that matter?

Probably bullshit claims but a few years back I do believe good ol' "Presence", the head of the RO site, claimed that he had soundboards for all three Chicago '75 shows because his dad or somebody was a Showco empoyee :lol: :lol: :lol::rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I completely agree. Those shows would've been taped too, I'm sure. Interesting that early shows from '77 haven't really shown up either (audience or SB).

Of the Missing Seven '77 shows, we know audience tapes exist for at least two -one for sure, Baton Rouge- and it wouldn't surprise me if at least a couple more were taped. I have heard from a couple of different people that soundboard recordings do exist for at least one of the Missing Seven shows (Greensboro) and probably others. Time will tell...

Edited by Nutrocker
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NuMystic, I think one problem might be the fact that you are downloading these shows. God only knows what bit rate and source the person who uploaded the file used. Or even if it's correct or complete song and/or show. Then, there's the virus problem.

And I know your 'persnickety' ears are a curse not a blessing, hehe. One of the greatest Led Zeppelin concerts of all time is the evening show of September 19, 1970. But you'd never be able to enjoy it because of the poor sound quality. The same with another smoking hot show: July 20, 1973 Boston.

I do have a question...are you able to listen to mono records? Because I find some of the Millard recordings have better sound and fidelity than many early Rolling Stones albums and other records of the 50s-60s. Because of the way Millard recorded his shows, the audience doesn't interfer with the music as it does on the average audience tape.

Besides, soundboards don't give you any more clearer picture of what the band sounded like than a good audience tape. The sound coming into the soundboard wasn't necessarily the sound that the audience heard coming out of the PA.

I'd rather listen to the audience of Seattle '73 than the dry, brittle soundboard.

Strider, first let me thank you for raising a number of points that have already identified a few culprits, and for offering such a thorough accounting of the recordings you're personally enjoying of each of those shows.

As for bit rate, I've downloaded nothing but lossless FLAC files, most EAC and the majority with either Fingerprint, log files, or others which identify the entire audio path including original source and allow for error checking. Viruses are no concern. I'm incredibly well secured and haven't had a single virus in over a decade.

That said, in the instances where the source is vinyl rather than CD and therefore can't be error checked for 100% accuracy there is infinite room for all manner of nastiness in the analogue to digital chain. I know at least one case so far where writing off a show was down to this specific issue. (Vinyl rip rather than a CD lossless one) Re-checking a Godfather CD release instead has revealed a very enjoyable recording. I'm not going to dismiss Vinyl rips altogether since so many can be excellent, but I'll certainly pay extra attention to these in the future or try and find multiple encodings to compare. (when looking for the titles Nutrocker recommended for example)

You also hit on another illuminating point I hadn't considered which is individual tracks from a show being dramatically different in quality than others. In a number of cases I only sampled a single track, and I've already found two shows where a single track or two sucked but with the rest turned out to be excellent.

Obviously I'm not after "dry brittle" soundboards and many of the best I've heard have either beautifully handled post processing or do actually capture the signal that was heading to the PA. I totally get what others love about aud recordings but of the boots I've enjoyed from other bands (along with the few of LZ I'm now discovering) all without exception have at least included a soundboard source so that's why I singled them out in my request. If I can find a pure aud recording that I truly enjoy, I'm all for it! (and will certainly give Millard's repeated listens) Just seems unlikely based on my experience thus far.

As for mono, most definitely can enjoy it! There are plenty of albums where the mono releases have far superior fidelity compared to the stereo versions. As for shows sounding better than many 50's recordings, I have no doubt that's true, but then I'm unsurprisingly not a fan of most 40's and early 50's recordings due to the same lack of dynamic range, extreme compression, distortion and harsh sibilance.

I realize that my tastes may prevent me from enjoying countless amazing performances but as someone that has listened to thousands of hours of nothing but the official studio and live releases for over 30 years, even finding just a handful of these recordings to enjoy has been both revelatory and provided immense excitement. If I come away from all this with only a few more albums worth of material it will provide immeasurable satisfaction for many years to come.

I've got you here and tmtomh (Zep Head) in another thread in particular along with a number of other's helpful posts to thank for that. I so appreciate you patiently sharing both your time and wisdom to help me find a few personal delights in this massive catalog of material.

Off to hunt down the specific recordings you shared. Thanks again! :you_rock:

Perhaps you would enjoy the Winston Remaster of 1977/06/21. It's called 'Mike the Mike 6-21-77'. It cleans up the sound quite nicely and sounds better than any of the myriads of bootleg releases. Same for the Winston Remaster of 1977/04/27 and 1979/08/04. I'm sure someone's already recommended 1969/08/31.

As for the best sounding versions of the 21/6/77 and 23/6/77 shows -and this is strictly IMO- but you want to find the WINSTON REMASTERS Mike The Mike version of the 21/6 show, it'll trump just about any official live album yer ever gonna hear. As for the 23/6 you want a version that uses the original "Dragonfly" vinyl recording...of the five audience sources available for that show that one is by far the best (even better than Mike Millard's, who missed the first few songs); off the top of my head, vinyl rips of the old Dragonly For Badgeholders Only Vols 1 & 2 are available on at least a couple of different live music torrent sites and/or blogs.

Thanks so much to you both. I've added these to my list along with the others above. You guys have been just awesome and I am eternally grateful for additional the pointers and insights!

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Thanks so much to you both. I've added these to my list along with the others above. You guys have been just awesome and I am eternally grateful for additional the pointers and insights!

No need to thank us, it's what we do :lol: Strider, Sue and meself are particularly obsessive about some of this stuff...

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well, I'm not getting any younger. Time may be on Sue's side, but it definitely ain't on mine.

Time aint on your side? Didn't you see Zep LIVE at the Forum in 1977? I'm in my early 20's, idk about Sue, but time is on YOUR SIDE buddy! I was BORN in 1989. I will alway be listening to a band I love, and will love them just the same, but its just different when you see them when they are at their height. I listen to soundboards and audiences/boots from old, old tape decks and reel-2-reels even in high gen's. I couldn't imagine going to the record store to get the new Led Zeppelin album. I can't even dream of what that COULD feel like. BUT, I'm happy enough to be able to enjoy their albums for what they were: the best albums of the best band to walk the earth!

Our excitement that we get with our age is this:

"THIS JUST IN! EVSD in COMPLETE PERFECT stereo surround sound digital soundboard, the best show of all time, Greensboro 1975! Coming to a torrent site near you and then mailbox near you for $5,000!" which I'd be happy about, somehow.

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"THIS JUST IN! EVSD in COMPLETE PERFECT stereo surround sound digital soundboard, the best show of all time, Greensboro 1977! Coming to a torrent site near you and then mailbox near you for $5,000!" which I'd be happy about, somehow.

Fixed. :lol:

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Time aint on your side? Didn't you see Zep LIVE at the Forum in 1977? I'm in my early 20's, idk about Sue, but time is on YOUR SIDE buddy! I was BORN in 1989. I will alway be listening to a band I love, and will love them just the same, but its just different when you see them when they are at their height. I listen to soundboards and audiences/boots from old, old tape decks and reel-2-reels even in high gen's. I couldn't imagine going to the record store to get the new Led Zeppelin album. I can't even dream of what that COULD feel like. BUT, I'm happy enough to be able to enjoy their albums for what they were: the best albums of the best band to walk the earth!

Our excitement that we get with our age is this:

"THIS JUST IN! EVSD in COMPLETE PERFECT stereo surround sound digital soundboard, the best show of all time, Greensboro 1975! Coming to a torrent site near you and then mailbox near you for $5,000!" which I'd be happy about, somehow.

Okay, you have a point. But I still reserve the right to complain about the shows that I haven't heard. I want to hear them all! Hahaha.

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