Charlie Jones ?

[walterswalk]

Well you can tell when the vows are being said how real it is at the time.. I stood as best man at my friends wedding and when his now ex wife said her vows like she was reading a grocery list.. my heart sank ... I knew it was doomed.

I'll take knebby's word that the Plant / Jones wedding was a couple in love and completely committed to each other..

Never said it wasn't

[the chase]

Never said it wasn't

I never said you did.. I didn't mean to imply you did either.. I'm sorry if it came across that way.

The 1st half of my reply was in response to you.. the 2nd part was more of a general statement.

If knebby was there, she has the best perspective on how their wedding day went.

[walterswalk]

I never said you did.. I didn't mean to imply you did either.. I'm sorry if it came across that way.

The 1st half of my reply was in response to you.. the 2nd part was more of a general statement.

If knebby was there, she has the best perspective on how their wedding day went.

I would say so yes.

[Psychedelic]

Seems you've overlooked the dynamics of Page & Plant's relationship just as some others here have overlooked the positive aspects of Charlie's relationship with Robert.

What dynamics did i overlook, cause to me those dynamics were gone before Zeppelin ended. The Page n Plant tour was amazing, i listen to lots of those shows quite often and they're great, but that being said, it was still a Zeppelin reunion with no Jonesy. Why no JPJ i ask? I know why, Charlie is cheaper than Jones thats why, even without Jpj they still toured the world for quite a few years and probably made more money than We can count.

Also i've heard the bad vocal mix in Carouselambra was Page's fault. The lyrics were about him and it pissed him off, so he turned him down and Percy flipped cause that song was important to him and Zeppelin. Jimmy Page nearly sabotaged the band here with his Dark problems and personality i think. Also this point goes back to the tours where Robert should not have been on stage, yet he went out there and blew his throat out and thats what Jimmy demanded. Yes this is all kinda heresay, but if i were robert id be pissed too, wouldn't you. Also walking into Clarksdale is shite, with 4 good songs if you're optimistic.

[Psychedelic]

Sorry about the double post but, that goes for all four of them, why on earth were they letting Robert go on stage with a voice so damaged and weak? Well the truth is they didn't fucking care about his well being that's what. And that is a major problem.

[pottedplant]

These two posts are astounding. Do you have any evidence other than "kinda hearsay" to back up what you're saying?

[Disco Duck]

These two posts are astounding. Do you have any evidence other than "kinda hearsay" to back up what you're saying?

To add to above, why would Plant ever agree to work with Page again? By 1993, he had the more successful post-Zeppelin career.

[SteveAJones]

What dynamics did i overlook, cause to me those dynamics were gone before Zeppelin ended.

Primarily you've overlooked that if John Paul Jones is involved it's no longer Page & Plant, it's a reunion of the three surviving members of Led Zeppelin. It's absurd for anyone to be blaming Charlie Jones, for to do so is to suggest were he not in Plant's band then John Paul Jones would have been involved on the Unledded project, which is completely untrue.

[SteveAJones]

Sorry about the double post but, that goes for all four of them, why on earth were they letting Robert go on stage with a voice so damaged and weak? Well the truth is they didn't fucking care about his well being that's what. And that is a major problem.

Oh, please. As much as I find Jimmy bashing a refreshing change, you've conveniently overlooked a mountain of evidence that affirms the four men in Led Zeppelin cared for each other.

[Psychedelic]

Oh, please. As much as I find Jimmy bashing a refreshing change, you've conveniently overlooked a mountain of evidence that affirms the four men in Led Zeppelin cared for each other.

I'm not bashing Jimmy, Jesus i hate when people assume or label someones posts like that, it just undermines all points made. The point was the page and plant tours existed for money, same applies to those tours where robert really should have been in bed lol. It is painful hearing those early 75 shows. That whole year was a dumb cash grab. Thats my point. Peter Grant and Jimmy probably had there minds set on this fortune they had stumbled on, they forgot to think about their frontmans health, until Karac dies that is. Then of course they start catering to plant after that. Thats all i was saying. Plant was taken for granted during those early years and the wear and tear showed in 75 badly. He probably still hates that. By no means am i saying these guys didnt care about eachother. I am saying they did overlook some things, ei roberts vocal issues, Jimmy's Heroin, Bonhams Drinking.

[Psychedelic]

Primarily you've overlooked that if John Paul Jones is involved it's no longer Page & Plant, it's a reunion of the three surviving members of Led Zeppelin. It's absurd for anyone to be blaming Charlie Jones, for to do so is to suggest were he not in Plant's band then John Paul Jones would have been involved on the Unledded project, which is completely untrue.

I havnt overlooked this Steve. As a matter of fact i was implying this on my previous post. They were playing zeppelin songs, some written by Jones himself, and he was not invited, no charlie jones is not at fault, i was just saying the Op made it out like that like. No they didnt want a zeppelin reunion Steve, yes thats true. But they did want to play Zeppelin songs, some written and arranged by Jones himself. Take the 94 and 95 No Quarter versions, they rearranged it without any piano! Course they dumped that and brought the original back

[SteveAJones]

I'm not bashing Jimmy, Jesus i hate when people assume or label someones posts like that, it just undermines all points made. The point was the page and plant tours existed for money, same applies to those tours where robert really should have been in bed lol. It is painful hearing those early 75 shows. That whole year was a dumb cash grab. Thats my point. Peter Grant and Jimmy probably had there minds set on this fortune they had stumbled on, they forgot to think about their frontmans health, until Karac dies that is. Then of course they start catering to plant after that. Thats all i was saying. Plant was taken for granted during those early years and the wear and tear showed in 75 badly. He probably still hates that. By no means am i saying these guys didnt care about eachother. I am saying they did overlook some things, ei roberts vocal issues, Jimmy's Heroin, Bonhams Drinking.

I haven't decided if your hopelessly naive, the reincarnation of a previously banned member or both. Suffice to say if the Page & Plant tours existed for money alone it seems to me they would have billed it as Led Zeppelin or and/brought JPJ onboard. 1975 was a dumb cash grab? I thought it was a valiant return to the stage after a relatively quiet late 1973/1974 break.

Early on Robert was plaqued by influenza, Jimmy's finger was damaged and JPJ was allegedly nursing fractured ribs but I can count on one hand the number of Led Zeppelin tours that were undertaken with everyone firing on all cylinders right from the starting line. Aside from that, Peter Grant deliberately kept ticket prices lower than many lesser bands were demanding.

So much for your insipid claims that "the Page & Plant tour existed for money" and "1975 was a dumb cash grab".

[Disco Duck]

I'm not bashing Jimmy, Jesus i hate when people assume or label someones posts like that, it just undermines all points made. The point was the page and plant tours existed for money, same applies to those tours where robert really should have been in bed lol. It is painful hearing those early 75 shows. That whole year was a dumb cash grab. Thats my point. Peter Grant and Jimmy probably had there minds set on this fortune they had stumbled on, they forgot to think about their frontmans health, until Karac dies that is. Then of course they start catering to plant after that. Thats all i was saying. Plant was taken for granted during those early years and the wear and tear showed in 75 badly. He probably still hates that. By no means am i saying these guys didnt care about eachother. I am saying they did overlook some things, ei roberts vocal issues, Jimmy's Heroin, Bonhams Drinking.

From what I've read, Plant's vocal problems started much earlier; around 1971. Page may have called the shots in Led Zeppelin, but by 1973 Plant was one of rock's leading vocalists. He also had enough songwriting credits to pay out royalties for a while. He was in a position to leave Led Zeppelin and strike out on his own. He didn't.

[SteveAJones]

I havnt overlooked this Steve. As a matter of fact i was implying this on my previous post. They were playing zeppelin songs, some written by Jones himself, and he was not invited, no charlie jones is not at fault, i was just saying the Op made it out like that like. No they didnt want a zeppelin reunion Steve, yes thats true. But they did want to play Zeppelin songs, some written and arranged by Jones himself. Take the 94 and 95 No Quarter versions, they rearranged it without any piano! Course they dumped that and brought the original back and gave some keyboard guy something to do lol.

So in point of fact you are STILL overlooking the central dynamic of Page & Plant's relationship: they can't do ANYTHING together without someone (namely you) invoking Led Zeppelin. By your logic if they wanted to cover a song originally written by (fill in the blank), that artist should be invited to participate. I can only encourage you to just blame Charlie Jones and move on before the hole you are digging here gets too deep.

[SteveAJones]

He was in a position to leave Led Zeppelin and strike out on his own.

No, Robert was still under the original recording contract they signed with Atlantic Records in 1968.

[Psychedelic]

I haven't decided if your hopelessly naive, the reincarnation of a previously banned member or both. Suffice to say if the Page & Plant tours existed for money alone it seems to me they would have billed it as Led Zeppelin or and/brought JPJ onboard. 1975 was a dumb cash grab? I thought it was a valiant return to the stage after a relatively quiet late 1973/1974 break.

Early on Robert was plaqued by influenza, Jimmy's finger was damaged and JPJ was allegedly nursing fractured ribs but I can count on one hand the number of Led Zeppelin tours that were undertaken with everyone firing on all cylinders right from the starting line. Aside from that, Peter Grant deliberately kept ticket prices lower than many lesser bands were demanding.

So much for your insipid claims that "the Page & Plant tour existed for money" and "1975 was a dumb cash grab".

Okay mr im naive, yes 75 was a Valiant return to form. Of course you didnt take into consideration my thought as to why i said page n plant tour was a cash grab. Ugh this conversation has turned sour and i do not care to bother you or anyone on this board. Im not some twisted troll with no god damn life, im just expressing myself here, so please stop acting like an ass. Yes im aware you probably have extensive knowledge of zeppelin beyond me or most around here. That doesn't mean i cant debate and form valid opinions with someone like you.

[SteveAJones]

Okay mr im naive, yes 75 was a Valiant return to form. Of course you didnt take into consideration my thought as to why i said page n plant tour was a cash grab. Ugh this conversation has turned sour and i do not care to bother you or anyone on this board. Im not some twisted troll with no god damn life, im just expressing myself here, so please stop acting like an ass. Yes im aware you probably have extensive knowledge of zeppelin beyond me or most around here. That doesn't mean i cant debate and form valid opinions with someone like you.

I did not take into consideration why YOU think Page & Plant was a crash grab because I was there and nearly twenty years later I still believe it was a very worthwhile experience rooted in artistic expression and integrity. The 1975 Led Zeppelin tour was as well. You are welcome to post your views just be mindful that your rebuttals thus far have failed to rebut.

[Psychedelic]

I did not take into consideration why YOU think Page & Plant was a crash grab because I was there and nearly twenty years later I still believe it was a very worthwhile experience rooted in artistic expression and integrity. The 1975 Led Zeppelin tour was as well. You are welcome to post your views just be mindful that your rebuttals thus far have failed to rebut.

I know when ive been beaten Steve. I salute you. On a side note i am a new poster so I'm sorry if what i said bothered you, maybe i did go a little too far. Btw i was listening to 1998-07-14. One of my favs.

[SteveAJones]

I know when ive been beaten Steve. I salute you. On a side note i am a new poster so I'm sorry if what i said bothered you, maybe i did go a little too far. Btw i was listening to 1998-07-14. One of my favs.

It's only rock n' roll!