Stairway Backwards (Lyrics, Rumors, Possibilities)

[ZoSo88]

Trust me, for someone who has the "ZoSo" symbol inked in his arm, im the last person who would ever disrespect the band. I dont see why anyone of the band themselves would be insulted by people finding interest in backmasking. Whether it was coincidental or not, you better believe Jimmy found it interesting, as he followed Crowley, and was into that stuff. I dont think the backwards version offensive or negative either. I think much like how some people dismiss the forwards lyrics as being jibberish, those same people find the backwards version satanic. The Forwards version is not jibberish, its legendary, and the backwards version isnt satanic, its interesting.

[GetTheLedOut]

Not this again

[Blue_Soul]

Okay, I'm out of this thread. Sorry again for bringing this up, I guess I'm a really horrible person as it seems. I hope that people here now won't hate me in general just for bringing this up.

[SteveAJones]

Listen, you've levied accusations against the band that do not withstand any scrutiny

whatsoever under the scientific method. When you find even a morsel of evidence to

support your assertion that the human brain can interpret backwards-masked messages

I'm all ear. We may have a difference of opinion on this matter, and that's acceptable.

No harm, no foul. It's been a long day, that's all. Cheers to you!

[lzfan715]

Blue Soul, I'm totally okay with your thread. This crap is what I'm not okay with. There is no point in all the arguing. People can have their opinions. I'm sure that people who post about STH backmasking know that it irratates people. I also don't think that any of the band members have a problem with people interested in backmasking. I do think that they don't like it when people accuse them of it. Robert Plant once said something about it along the lines of he wished that people would just leave him and his (or Zeppelin's) music alone with the backmasking. I think peole should respect his wishes.

to clear up the Satanism:

Satanism

First off, we need to separate the Christian Satan, the Devil who rules hell, from the Judaic Lucifer/Satan, and then from LaVey's Church of Satan. In Judaism, there is no hell, no judgment, and Satan is not the "Devil". The Hebrew root of the word Satan means "accuser". He was not the enemy or opposer of God, but rather a sort of Prosecuting Attorney who tests people for God. Witness the story of Job. That said, "Satanism", as in the whole "powers of evil" cult thing, which came to popularity in the last few decades, has little to nothing to with the Biblical Satan, be he angel or demon.

Thelema

Jimmy (and only Jimmy), was/is a Thelemite, not in any form a Satanist. Thelemites do in fact perform rituals to invoke spirits, but for purposes of goodness.

Thelema ("THEL-ay-mah") is a Greek word meaning "will" or "intention". It is also the name of a new spiritual philosophy which has arisen over the past several hundred years and is now gradually becoming established worldwide.

One of the earliest mentions of this philosophy occurs in the classic Gargantua and Pantagruel written by Francois Rabelais in 1532. One episode of this epic adventure tells of the founding of an "Abbey of Thelema" as an institution for the cultivation of human virtues, which Rabelais identified as being squarely opposite the prevailing Christian proprieties of the time. The sole rule of the Abbey of Thelema was: "Do what thou wilt". This has become one of the basic tenets of Thelemic philosophy today.

Although touched upon by various prominent visionary thinkers in the following few hundred years, the seeds of Thelema sown by Rabelais eventually came to fruition in the early part of this century when developed by an Englishman named Aleister Crowley. Crowley was a poet, author, mountaineer, magician, and member of the occult society known as the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn. In 1904, while traveling in Egypt with his wife Rose, Crowley became inextricably involved in a series of events which he claimed to inaugurate a new aeon of human evolution. These culminated in April when Crowley entered a state of trance and wrote down the three chapters of 220 verses which came to be called The Book of the Law (also known as Liber AL and Liber Legis). Among other things, this book declared: "The word of the law is Thelema" and "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law".

Crowley spent the rest of his life developing the philosophy of Thelema as revealed by the Book of the Law. The result was a voluminous output of commentary and works relating to magick, mysticism, yoga, qabalah, and other occult subjects. Virtually all of this writing bears the influence of Thelema as interpreted and understood by Crowley in his capacity as prophet of the New Aeon.

One theory holds that each chapter of the Book of the Law is associated with a particular aeon of human spiritual evolution. According to this view, Chapter One characterizes the Aeon of Isis, when the archetype of female divinity was paramount. Chapter Two relates to the Aeon of Osiris, when the archetype of the slain god became prominent, and the world's patriarchal religions became established. Chapter Three heralds the dawning of a new aeon, the Aeon of Horus, the child of the Isis and Osiris. It is in this new aeon that the philosophy of Thelema will be fully revealed to humanity, and will become established as the primary paradigm for the spiritual evolution of the species.

Some of the essential elements of belief in Thelema are:

"Every man and every woman is a star."

This is usually taken to mean that each individual is unique and has their own path in a spacious universe wherein they can move freely without collision.

"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law." and "thou hast no right but to do thy will."

Most Thelemites hold that every person possesses a True Will, a single overall motivation for their existence. The Law of Thelema mandates that each person follow their True Will to attain fulfillment in life and freedom from restriction of their nature. Because no two True Wills can be in real conflict (according to "Every man and every woman is a star"), this Law also prohibits one from interfering with the True Will of any other person.

The notion of absolute freedom for an individual to follow his or her True Will is a cherished one among Thelemites. This philosophy also recognizes that the main task of an individual setting out on the path of Thelema is to first discover his or her True Will, giving methods of self-exploration such as magick great importance. Furthermore, every True Will is different, and because each person has a unique point-of-view of the universe, no one can determine the True Will for another person. Each person must arrive at the discovery for themselves.

"Love is the law, love under will."

This is an important corollary to the above, indicating that the essential nature of the Law of Thelema is that of Love. Each individual unites with his or her True Self in Love, and so empowered, the entire universe of conscious beings unites with every other being in Love.

Of course, with the emphasis on freedom and individuality inherent in Thelema, the beliefs of any given Thelemite are likely to differ from those of any other. In the Comment appended to The Book of the Law it is stated that: "All questions of the Law are to be decided only by appeal to my writings, each for himself." Although Thelema is sometimes referred to as a "religion", it accommodates the full range of individual beliefs, from atheism to polytheism. The important thing is that each person has the right to fulfill themselves through whatever beliefs and actions are best suited to them (so long as they do not interfere with the will of others), and only they themselves are qualified to determine what these are.

Love is the law, love under will

Ritual Magick

Thelemites do perform ritual magick. Wands, knives, the whole bit. However, not for purposes of evil, but rather to harness the power of ones Holy Guardian Angel. Within the system of Thelema, the Holy Guardian Angel is the "Silent Self", representative of one's truest divine nature.

I'm of the opinion that Page actually performed ritual onstage during his bow solo. The first ritual a Thelemite performs is called the Banishment. It's a cleansing of all things negative. One turns to each of the four corners and invokes the spirit of that cardinal point, ending on the fifth point which is the self. In Jimmy's bow solo, he sure enough strikes one chord after another, each time turning to one of the four directions. He repeats this several time finishing pointing skyward. I've seen the ritual performed, and it's pretty clear to me that's what he's up to. But I'm must stress that this is not evil. In fact it's precisely the opposite. There are a lot of bad vibes in a rock concert audience. Belligerent people who've had too much drink. People experiencing bad drug trips. The Banishment is meant to shake that all away and ground the audience, focusing them back on the music. Of course, that's just my interpretation.

Astrology and Symbolism

Jimmy did use both in Led Zeppelin. His dragon suits bore his astrological chart signs (Capricorn, Mercury and Saturn). His "Zoso" symbol is a stylized amalgam of centuries old alchemical symbols for same.

that was written by Ev and I think it's right.

[ZoSo88]

well said. And im not throwing out any accusation, mearly stating my opinion. And you couldn't scientifically prove intentional backmasking, even with people who do it on purpose. There's no scientific proccess for that. It just comes down to matter of opinion, whether or not people hear anything, and whether or not people believe the points i brought up are still coincidental. I agree to disagree and apologize for offending anyone. Believe me, i would never disrespect the band, i have to much respect to do that. Just from my point of view, this is just another part of their mysticism, that makes it all the more interesting.

[Stormpilot]

What would be really interesting is a chronology of the origin of this myth. Who first listened to the track backward or thought that there was a reason for believing that there was something satanical about the backwards message. I can imagine how it may have happened, but I have to say I have never heard how this all started. Does anyone know?

[Tea For One]

So imagine you're Jimmy Page and you're reading this thread. There are 2 possible things happening to you now:

1) You did it intentionally and you're laughing your arse off;

2) It's all a huge coincidence and you're laughing your arse off.

By the way, I read something in a Q Special on the band (I think) a little while ago about the writing of these lyrics - Robert Plant said that he was sat in front of the fire whilst Page was strumming the chords and suddenly felt very angry. The lyrics then started to flow out onto the paper pad he was holding (or something like that) and he was surprised to read what he had actually written down. I have some early demos of the song and the lyrics are mostly all there, although some sections are missing/different/improvisations. I personally don't believe it's possible for normal mortal humans to construct something like that intentionally. Looking at it that way, maybe when Plant felt those lyrics flowing through him it was coming from some other source and that's why he basically disowned the song in later years - because he was afraid of it!

Does anyone remember laughter?

Of course I'm joking, but you can read something into anything if you put your mind to it. In my opinion it's all a fantastic bit of hokum that adds to the mythical nature of the song and the band in general. I tell you though; the more I listen to those lyrics (the forward ones) the more it all makes sense to me. What a great piece of music.

[obscured]

Personally, I don't care if it's intentional or not. It's a beautiful song and it's up to the listeners anyway to decide what meaning applies to them.

[Tea For One]

Personally, I don't care if it's intentional or not. It's a beautiful song and it's up to the listeners anyway to decide what meaning applies to them.

I agree. That's what I was trying to say in my post. In a roundabout sorta way.

[ZoSo88]

Thats something we can all agree on. A beautiful masterpiece! I think its phenominal both ways you listen to it. I agree that either way Pagey would be laughing it up. But thats the beauty of the band, the mystery surrounding so much..its the intrigue of Led Zeppelin, and thats the way I like it. Although whoever said he didn't think it would be possible for mortal man to create such a thing..that is the best argument by far. Of course i think you can hear plenty of it, so simply saying that how could anyone make that, is the best stance to take if you disagree in my opinion. It blows my mind how it would even be possible. It wasn't untill i learned Page had a habit and curious nature with reversing things in the studio, let made me thing...no way this was by accident...but who knows.

[chef free]

I remember when this all first came up, it was back at the start of the Reagan era. The Christian Right was feeling their oats and began to advance their agenda. Soon we had wild accusations of satanic child abuse and ritual baby murders, all "substanciated" by so called "repressed memory syndrome". This was the idea that painful memories were repressed and could be extracted by hypnosis. Many people were accused of horrible crimes and some were convicted and sent to prison. Remember the McMartin preschool case? Well it all turned out to be hysterical BULLSHIT! The American Psychiatric Association denys the exsistence of repressed memory syndrone and many people have been freed after years in prison. Bottom line: people are very suggestable, When I listened to STH backwards I couldn't understand any of it! It's backwards for god's sake! Search for "backmasking" on You Tube and see what kind of foolishness comes up.

[Thorzep]

No disrespect intended to anyone here or their point of view.

I suggest that anyone interested in this topic actually try some back masking for themselves. It's pretty easy.

Get out a pen and paper, put on ANY record and play it backwards. You will immediatly notice two things.

First of all, that's exactly what Satan sounds like when he sings. Secondly, you will be able to 'hear' recognizable words. Write them down and you've got yourself the 'secret verses'!I did this quite a bit back in the day.

I also used to have a tape recorder that recorded if you pressed 'record' and 'fast forward' at the same time. Then I would play it back by pressing 'play' and 'rewind' at the same time.

In this way I was able to figure out how to create a phrase or sound that would sound like a coherent sentence when played backwards. With today's technology, I'm sure it's simple to do this on any music editing software, but I haven't tried it yet.

Once you get familiar with how it works, it becomes quite obvious that Zeppelin didn't do this at all.

For an example of REAL backwards masking, listen to 'I'm So Tired' by the Beatles.(White Album)

At the end of the song you can hear this phrase:

"Mizim mizim mizim. Nim nim ded si lop" play it backwards and it is very clearly "Paul is dead man, miss him, miss him, miss him".

[ZoSo88]

That was backmasking...but no where near the level of what LZ did. And no offense but...if its so easy to find secret words, please find me another Zep song that has meaning like that..and post the lyrics...for entertainment value if nothing else.

[Thorzep]

OK. Will do. Give me a few weeks to save up for a record player though.

[Electrophile]

This is a case of people wanting to hear something, so they do. If you convince yourself you're hearing something.....you will. Doesn't mean you actually are. It's psychosomatic. Like when you convince yourself you're sick, and then you actually get sick.

[JimmyPage1977]

This is a case of people wanting to hear something, so they do. If you convince yourself you're hearing something.....you will. Doesn't mean you actually are. It's psychosomatic. Like when you convince yourself you're sick, and then you actually get sick.

Why would you want to play such a beautiful song backwards?

[James Patrick Page]

I stayed up pretty late last night researching this while drinking scotch and have come up with the following theory:

Having served his apprenticeship under the teachings of Lord Crowley, Jimmy is now set to become the new Sith Lord that will destroy the Republic and lead the New World Order Galactic Empire.

After the O2 show, he will proclaim himself to be Darth Zoso.

the dark side in him, powerful it is.......

[pujols05]

Agreed...and after all, whatever your religion is, whether it be christianity, judaism, islam, and alot of occultic stuff...always points to the holy land, or Isreal if you will.

And the line "Who owns this earth built below, oh sweet Isreal" again for to much to be a coincidence, now if it said "oh sweet, Brooklyn" or something like that, then i'd be like hey..that doesnt make any sense. But c'mon with the coincidence theory, this stuff is too much not to add up.

Israel doesn't have to mean the geographical area...I interpret it as HOUSE of Israel, ie., God's chosen people.

[SteveAJones]

I stayed up pretty late last night researching this while drinking scotch and have come up with the following theory:

Having served his apprenticeship under the teachings of Lord Crowley, Jimmy is now set to become the new Sith Lord that will destroy the Republic and lead the New World Order Galactic Empire.

After the O2 show, he will proclaim himself to be Darth Zoso.

the dark side in him, powerful it is.......

You know the lunatic fringe is going to start following you around with pen and paper:

"He's the one. He knows! HE KNOWS!!"

[LedZepChick]

I stayed up pretty late last night researching this while drinking scotch and have come up with the following theory:

Having served his apprenticeship under the teachings of Lord Crowley, Jimmy is now set to become the new Sith Lord that will destroy the Republic and lead the New World Order Galactic Empire.

After the O2 show, he will proclaim himself to be Darth Zoso.

the dark side in him, powerful it is.......

[lzfan715]

I have a question. If you were to say the words that are supposed to be there and then play that backwards would it sound like the normal lyrics to Stairway?

[ZoSo88]

I have a question. If you were to say the words that are supposed to be there and then play that backwards would it sound like the normal lyrics to Stairway?

Good question, and the answer is yes, kind of. We did it in our video production course, as we were studying backmasking, and LZ came up of course. If you sing the alleged lyrics backwards, like you hear it when you reverse it, it does sound like a creepy version of regular stairway. Of course i dont have roberts voice either. Some would chalk that up to being more coincidental, or that the forwards lyrics just come out that way..and sound like the backwards lyrics. But as i said, i dont believe in coincidences that large. Research backmasking, there has never been such an lengthy example of it, and for it to be as clear as it is (believe me its clear for backmasking standards) and the fact Stairway might be the most spiritual song of all time anyway...i don't but that explination. But its up to the fans to decide.

[leandar]

For an example of REAL backwards masking, listen to 'I'm So Tired' by the Beatles.(White Album)

At the end of the song you can hear this phrase:

"Mizim mizim mizim. Nim nim ded si lop" play it backwards and it is very clearly "Paul is dead man, miss him, miss him, miss him".

What everyone else called backward masking, the guy over at reversespeech.com just called "reverse speech," and that it's something the human mind unconsciously does and we have no control over it.

http://www.reversespeech.com

He talked about the deliberate messages such as what Thorzep is describing and also say the messages on a couple of Weird Al's songs as deliberate backward masking and that there was a clear difference.

And as far as Stairway to Heaven goes, he talked about how he didn't think the messages were satanic at all, but going back to the legend about how supposedly there was a church on the spot where Crowley's house now stands that burned to the ground with the congregation all in it and that he believed the reverse speech in Stairway to Heaven is nothing more than some kind of tale about the suffering of the church members as their church building burned to the ground and they were trapped inside. The full article is at that site and describes it much better than I can or do in this brief snippet.

[SteveAJones]

And as far as Stairway to Heaven goes, he talked about...

JIMMY PAGE said no and I do not consider him to be a liar.

If there was some truth behind these theories he'd own up

and say so. Here comes the lunatic fringe brigade...