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cryingbluerain

Egypt Crisis

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I would have to say both of you are correct to a certain extent. Are terrorist attacks planned, much less halted, every single day? Absolutely not, I would argue that most terrorist plots never make it past the planning stages and the vast majority that do wind up fizzling out along the way. The very minute handful that do come to a sort of fruition are either discovered due to human nature and the fact that 99.99999% of people (even terrorists) cannot keep their big mouths shut and give themselves away. The overwhelming majority of successful terrorist attacks are by one, lone person with a bunch of dynamite strapped to them. Organized attacks are near impossible, as proven by the fact that there has not been one in America since 911. Is that because of awesome police work? Probably not, again it is most likely because someone talks, someone gets picked up for some bullshit and the guy talks to save his ass. Again, human nature. That whole 24 & Law & Order stuff is pure bullshit, you get someone in a box (interrogation room) and just through normal conversation 90% of people will sing like a canary. 9% you can get the info from within 48 - 72 hours through trust techniques, and the remaining 1% are your zealots who will not talk regardless of torture or high stress, however the Russians developed a wonderful workaround in the 1980's that is virtually 100% guaranteed and does not harm a single hair on a persons head. They married a primitive virtual reality / isolation tank with hallucinogenic compounds, guided their trip and got the info.

The point is, if we did not stick our noses into the business of foreign governments regarding their domestic policy in an effort to enrich our own profits & power we would not have terrorists in the first place. Remember on this 4th of July WE (colonists) were called terrorists and insurrectionists by the English. The hit and run tactics of the Carolina Militia were considered terrorism by the British. It all comes down to perspective, one persons terrorist is another persons freedom fighter. If we keep painting people with the same broad brush of terrorism we will fail to recognize the true problem (our hubris and hunger for power) and keep making the same mistakes over and over again.

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Remember on this 4th of July WE (colonists) were called terrorists and insurrectionists by the English. The hit and run tactics of the Carolina Militia were considered terrorism by the British. It all comes down to perspective, one persons terrorist is another persons freedom fighter.

I don't think there's a catchphrase in the English language that I find more infuriating than that one. Regardless, I'm not here to win any hearts and minds or even try to change someone's opinion. I do want to point out the colonists only targeted British military forces. They weren't killing their women, children and other non-combatants.

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I don't think there's a catchphrase in the English language that I find more infuriating than that one. Regardless, I'm not here to win any hearts and minds or even try to change someone's opinion. I do want to point out the colonists only targeted British military forces. They weren't killing their women, children and other non-combatants.

So true Steve, so true. However, not wanting to argue, but I wonder what the British press were saying at the time. That is, were they claiming the American colonists were perpetrating such acts and crimes to bolster popular opinion for an unpopular war abroad?

That said, your point is correct and there is a big difference between American revolutionaries and muslim fundamentalists.

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I haven't been following this thread from the beginning and my own opinion of the Egypt crisis is that it's hard or maybe impossible to know how it will turn out. I am very concerned that there has been a military coup, but theoretically it could set the stage for a democratic government.

As for the tangent that has begun about terrorism, Sagittarius Rising is correct; the rationale(s) for the Sept. 11 attacks were US bases in Saudi Arabia and our support for the corrupt and authoritarian regimes of Saudi Arabia and Egypt (the now overthrown Mubarak), and the US's military support for Israel which uses the money to enforce a brutal military occupation of the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem, and is moving its civilian population continuously into the W. Bank and East Jerusalem in order to take over the land from the Palestinians (which by the way is a war crime, using civilians as part of a military tactic...) If only we had had a different foreign policy starting many decades ago, Sept. 11 never would have happened. Al Qaeda would not exist. Some of our disastrous foreign policy is explained by our dependence on fossil fuels but much of it is explained by special interest lobbying of Congress.

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I haven't been following this thread from the beginning and my own opinion of the Egypt crisis is that it's hard or maybe impossible to know how it will turn out. I am very concerned that there has been a military coup, but theoretically it could set the stage for a democratic government.

As for the tangent that has begun about terrorism, Sagittarius Rising is correct; the rationale(s) for the Sept. 11 attacks were US bases in Saudi Arabia and our support for the corrupt and authoritarian regimes of Saudi Arabia and Egypt (the now overthrown Mubarak), and the US's military support for Israel which uses the money to enforce a brutal military occupation of the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem, and is moving its civilian population continuously into the W. Bank and East Jerusalem in order to take over the land from the Palestinians (which by the way is a war crime, using civilians as part of a military tactic...) If only we had had a different foreign policy starting many decades ago, Sept. 11 never would have happened. Al Qaeda would not exist. Some of our disastrous foreign policy is explained by our dependence on fossil fuels but much of it is explained by special interest lobbying of Congress.

You are a moron.

Edited by Anjin-san

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I haven't been following this thread from the beginning and my own opinion of the Egypt crisis is that it's hard or maybe impossible to know how it will turn out. I am very concerned that there has been a military coup, but theoretically it could set the stage for a democratic government.

As for the tangent that has begun about terrorism, Sagittarius Rising is correct; the rationale(s) for the Sept. 11 attacks were US bases in Saudi Arabia and our support for the corrupt and authoritarian regimes of Saudi Arabia and Egypt (the now overthrown Mubarak), and the US's military support for Israel which uses the money to enforce a brutal military occupation of the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem, and is moving its civilian population continuously into the W. Bank and East Jerusalem in order to take over the land from the Palestinians (which by the way is a war crime, using civilians as part of a military tactic...) If only we had had a different foreign policy starting many decades ago, Sept. 11 never would have happened. Al Qaeda would not exist. Some of our disastrous foreign policy is explained by our dependence on fossil fuels but much of it is explained by special interest lobbying of Congress.

You're 100% correct.

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During the Iraq war, I became an email pen-pal of one of our military men stationed in Iraq. They loved to hear from home as often as was possible.

I received an email from my friend relating a story that his interpreter had related to him that morning.

A group of Sunis had invited a Shite family to dinner in an effort to form ties in the region where they lived. As the family sat down to dinner they noticed that their three year old son was not present. The father of the Suni family told them that he would go and look for the little boy, that he had probably wandered off. While he was out looking for the little boy, the dinner was served. The Sunis had taken the little boy, killed him, put him through a spit, stuffed him with whatever, roasted him and served him to his family for dinner.

The war within Islam has nothing to do with the United States or any other country, or oil or the Jews.

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i never supported the war in afghanistan or iraq. i thought we needed to do something but more like small missions and targeted strikes against specific people/groups. not an all out ground war. but we are in a transition stage and moving in that direction.

afghanistan still has strong taliban and they are the reason al qaeda was allowed to go in and run the terrorist training camps.

i think we do need to start leaving and let neighboring areas start to take more control there.

i think afghanistan would have been better off if we had just let the soviets do what they wanted there.

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During the Iraq war, I became an email pen-pal of one of our military men stationed in Iraq. They loved to hear from home as often as was possible.

I received an email from my friend relating a story that his interpreter had related to him that morning.

A group of Sunis had invited a Shite family to dinner in an effort to form ties in the region where they lived. As the family sat down to dinner they noticed that their three year old son was not present. The father of the Suni family told them that he would go and look for the little boy, that he had probably wandered off. While he was out looking for the little boy, the dinner was served. The Sunis had taken the little boy, killed him, put him through a spit, stuffed him with whatever, roasted him and served him to his family for dinner.

The war within Islam has nothing to do with the United States or any other country, or oil or the Jews.

yes, did you know that george w Bush did not know there were different groups of muslims ? even after he started the war in iraq he did not know there was a "sunni" and "shiite" muslims . and in iraq this was an internal thing that has nothing to do with anyone outside.

right now what you are seeing in Egypt, Turkey, and other parts of the muslim world is moderate Muslims in a fight against the fundamentalist radical Islamists. none of this has anything to do with us.

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I haven't been following this thread from the beginning and my own opinion of the Egypt crisis is that it's hard or maybe impossible to know how it will turn out. I am very concerned that there has been a military coup, but theoretically it could set the stage for a democratic government.

As for the tangent that has begun about terrorism, Sagittarius Rising is correct; the rationale(s) for the Sept. 11 attacks were US bases in Saudi Arabia and our support for the corrupt and authoritarian regimes of Saudi Arabia and Egypt (the now overthrown Mubarak), and the US's military support for Israel which uses the money to enforce a brutal military occupation of the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem, and is moving its civilian population continuously into the W. Bank and East Jerusalem in order to take over the land from the Palestinians (which by the way is a war crime, using civilians as part of a military tactic...) If only we had had a different foreign policy starting many decades ago, Sept. 11 never would have happened. Al Qaeda would not exist. Some of our disastrous foreign policy is explained by our dependence on fossil fuels but much of it is explained by special interest lobbying of Congress.

there are things we should not do and have done in the past when it comes to other nations. but the terrorist who attacked on 9/11 had nothing to do with this. these are just excuses. did you know these guys drank alcohol, smoked, hired prostitutes and other things that are supposed to be against their religion ? the same was true of the Boston bombers.

these are the same people who think they have a right to kill a woman in their own family if she even holds hands with a guy she is not married to.

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yes, did you know that george w Bush did not know there were different groups of muslims ? even after he started the war in iraq he did not know there was a "sunni" and "shiite" muslims . and in iraq this was an internal thing that has nothing to do with anyone outside.

right now what you are seeing in Egypt, Turkey, and other parts of the muslim world is moderate Muslims in a fight against the fundamentalist radical Islamists. none of this has anything to do with us.

Yes, I knew this and no, it has nothing to do with us. The Middle East has been a tribal basket case for 1400 years. We do not now, nor have we ever, understood these people. I would like to believe that it is "moderate" Muslims fighting for their "freedoms" or whatever that means to them. I hope that there are moderates among those fighting. But intermixed with these moderates are radicals. TPTB are going to arm these various groups. We did that in Afganistan when we armed Al Qaeda against the Russians. It gave us the Taliban. Let them sort it out for themselves. We backed Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood. Why must we always support the man instead of the idea of democracy? Al Qaeda is the fruit the Muslim Brotherhood produced after it was started back in 1919 or 1920 by a Muslim scholar by the name of Qubt (can't remember his first name), in Egypt. Arabs/Muslims have no understanding of what democracy really is. To them it is economic prosperity and no authoritarian ruler. Beyond that, their culture will decide how freedoms will be administered and determined. Sharia law will not be completely left out of any kind of rule.

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During the Iraq war, I became an email pen-pal of one of our military men stationed in Iraq. They loved to hear from home as often as was possible.

I received an email from my friend relating a story that his interpreter had related to him that morning.

A group of Sunis had invited a Shite family to dinner in an effort to form ties in the region where they lived. As the family sat down to dinner they noticed that their three year old son was not present. The father of the Suni family told them that he would go and look for the little boy, that he had probably wandered off. While he was out looking for the little boy, the dinner was served. The Sunis had taken the little boy, killed him, put him through a spit, stuffed him with whatever, roasted him and served him to his family for dinner.

The war within Islam has nothing to do with the United States or any other country, or oil or the Jews.

I'm not sure I'm following. It's true that the conflict between Sunni and Shia goes back a very long way, but the Sunni-Shia conflict is only one problem that we are dealing with in the Middle East. As for this story, we have no way of knowing if it is true or if the interpreter made it up. What you're relating is a third- or fourth- hand story: Someone told the story to the interpreter (or he made it up) who told it to your friend, who told it to you. There's a long tradition of storytelling in the Middle East and I wouldn't be so quick to believe every story you hear.

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The reality of life under an Islamic government has come home to the secular majority. If they had gone out to use their vote, the year under Islamic rule would never have happened. Good riddance to the Islamic Brotherhood.

Edited by JTM

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there are things we should not do and have done in the past when it comes to other nations. but the terrorist who attacked on 9/11 had nothing to do with this. these are just excuses. did you know these guys drank alcohol, smoked, hired prostitutes and other things that are supposed to be against their religion ? the same was true of the Boston bombers.

these are the same people who think they have a right to kill a woman in their own family if she even holds hands with a guy she is not married to.

You seem to be confusing a lot of things here: The individuals recruited by Al Qaeda with the organization of Al Qaeda as a whole, and the Sept. 11 terrorists with the Boston bombers. I can't even follow what you are saying actually. It sounds like you are saying the Sept. 11 and Boston terrorists made the attacks because they drank alcohol, smoked and hired prostitutes. I hope that's not true as it would make a large number of U.S. men terrorists in waiting. Maybe you could clarify exactly what it is you are trying to say. Actually I don't think you even read what I wrote even though it was supposedly a response. My point was that supporting corrupt authoritarian governments tends to make people angry, and supporting countries that invade and occupy other countries makes people even angrier. Religion is less important than these things.

Edited by ScarletMacaw

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I'm not sure I'm following. It's true that the conflict between Sunni and Shia goes back a very long way, but the Sunni-Shia conflict is only one problem that we are dealing with in the Middle East. As for this story, we have no way of knowing if it is true or if the interpreter made it up. What you're relating is a third- or fourth- hand story: Someone told the story to the interpreter (or he made it up) who told it to your friend, who told it to you. There's a long tradition of storytelling in the Middle East and I wouldn't be so quick to believe every story you hear.

As I have spent a little time in the Middle East, I am certainly aware of their traditions. The Sunni-Shia conflict is not our problem, but a very big problem to Islam. It is obvious that there are other problems in the Middle East, but they are certainly not ours to solve and we don't have a good handle on how we should even "deal" with them. As far as the story goes, it was not "made up" by anyone and was related to military personal in a war zone as a "caution" to tactical formations. I certainly am well educated enough to differentiate between bullshit and reality and what to believe and what not to believe. With all due respect, Scarlet.

Ohooo - I just heard the intro to "Black Dog" on CBS's This Morning. Great way to start the day!!!

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As I have spent a little time in the Middle East, I am certainly aware of their traditions. The Sunni-Shia conflict is not our problem, but a very big problem to Islam. It is obvious that there are other problems in the Middle East, but they are certainly not ours to solve and we don't have a good handle on how we should even "deal" with them. As far as the story goes, it was not "made up" by anyone and was related to military personal in a war zone as a "caution" to tactical formations. I certainly am well educated enough to differentiate between bullshit and reality and what to believe and what not to believe. With all due respect, Scarlet.

If you weren't a witness to this event you have no way of knowing what happened regardless of your education or experience in the Middle East. Disinformation campaigns are common military tactics. Pretty much every government and militia group has used them.

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If you weren't a witness to this event you have no way of knowing what happened regardless of your education or experience in the Middle East. Disinformation campaigns are common military tactics. Pretty much every government and militia group has used them.

:tears:

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Can we get our billion dollars back?

SHhhhhhhh! (the sequester ya' know)

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