Zeppelin's Battle-less Outdoor

[McSeven]

When you all listen to ITTOD. Do you feel it sounds like Zeppelin. When compared to the other albums?

Wow does it ever really feel like its from another era. Almost like Zeppelin stooped performing for about 10 yrs and then picked up again. At least with the other albums. I can feel a thread with the songs from album to album. Fool in the Rain is like a pop song and very light for them. If you put on Hot Dog. It does not sound like them. When they performed for O2. They did nothing from ITTOD, not even Im' Gonna Crawl, which is closer to the Zeppelin sound than any other song.

There is something about it that sound very different in such a drastic way.

Lets take a look at Zeppelin 1 and PG. I can still tell that it is still the band by some of the Zeppelin quirks. Some bands have certain little ticks that they can't help within their sound. Like certain vocal phrasings by Robert Plant. JPJ always had this happy soulful base which I don't really here as much. Jimmy feels like all he is doing is riffing and I don't hear any of that Hammer of the gods guitar solo, like he is going into battle. Thats what I love about Zeppelin. There always feel like they are going into battle.

Bonzo is the only one that seems to stay the same. You know its him.

What do you all think

[Amstel]

Of course it sounds like Led Zeppelin. ITTO was different because Led Zeppelin never remained stagnant.

However, knowing the band like I do, and many of you will agree, ITTO also sounds like a band trying to get through some rough times, ie;the death of Plant's son, Bonham's alcohol and heroin use, and Page's withdrawl from ITTO sessions due to his poor health because of heroin use. It's an album that shows a strongh drive from Jones & Plant.

I sometimes have to defend this album when friends, or strangers at bars, criticize ITTO. I remind them this album was made during a difficult period because of the things mentioned above.

There are gems on ITTO - Carouselambra, In The Evening, I'm Gonna Crawl.

I like the album, but I also know under what circumstances it was made.

[magerogue]

Why do people keep forgeting about their greatest album, Presence!??

A landmark for the guitar players.

And ITTOD is a great album. People keep talking trash and saying it's bad and all, I always thought it was great. Showed that Zeppelin were capable of not loosing their roots while adapting to a new era on the music business.

For me, saying "you have to consider the conditions on wich the members found themsleves while the recording sessions" is bullshit. I never bought that.

The album is good and I love every song from it just like I love every album by Led Zeppelin.

It was like listening to Appetite for Destruction and Use Your Illusion.

[Amstel]

For me, saying "you have to consider the conditions on wich the members found themsleves while the recording sessions" is bullshit. I never bought that.

But it's fact John Bonham and Jimmy Page were withdrawn for much of that album! Why, because of their substance problems.

[Amstel]

Why do people keep forgeting about their greatest album, Presence!??

A landmark for the guitar players.

I agree! I've always felt that way about Presence. It's really an extension of Physical Graffiti, IMO. Why? Because Led Zeppelin was planned to tour later in 75', and that didn't happen because of Plant's accident in Greece - we all know this. So what did they do? Right into the studio they went. They were very creative during this period.

[McSeven]

So what you are all saying is that this Album is more of a Plant/Jones project with Page and Bonzo taking a background status.

Okay. Why is that you never really hear much of ITTOD on cover songs and on the radio. The only songs I have ever heard is Fool in the rain on radio. When people talk about classic Zeppelin. This era is not really mentioned as much.

They never really perform songs when Zep reform for the odd gig. I don't even think Jason Bonham covers songs from this era. I am just saying it sounds much de energized.

[magerogue]

I agree! I've always felt that way about Presence. It's really an extension of Physical Graffiti, IMO. Why? Because Led Zeppelin was planned to tour later in 75', and that didn't happen because of Plant's accident in Greece - we all know this. So what did they do? Right into the studio they went. They were very creative during this period.

Yep! I remember the first time hearing ALS and going like "how in the hell is he doing those drum fills???" it blew me away, my favorite Zeppelin track is Hots On For Nowhere and I love Presence from the first to last second. It's my favorite record ever, and as a drummer and mainly guitarist, I always thought Presence was the most creative period after Zeppelin III.

[Amstel]

So what you are all saying is that this Album is more of a Plant/Jones project with Page and Bonzo taking a background status.

Why is that you never really hear much of ITTOD on cover songs and on the radio. The only songs I have ever heard is Fool in the rain on radio.

It could be looked at that way, but there isn't a studio musician drummer playing those fills in Carouselambra. And it isn't a session guitarist playing the beginning of In The evening or that great dirty solo in Fool In The Rain!

Because FM "CRAP" radio is controlled by the executives!

Who the hell are they (the execs) to determine what I'm going to listen to? Screw that!

[Grits 'n' Gravy]

So what you are all saying is that this Album is more of a Plant/Jones project with Page and Bonzo taking a background status.

I think this is what accounts for the different "feel" of ITTOD. Before this album, Page always had the most control over content, so far as I know, and he collaborated with Plant. It's always struck me that Page had an idea of what he wanted the band to sound like, hence, the Zep "feeling" with the earlier albums. With Page out of the driver's seat, so to speak, you're hearing what JPJ and Plant wanted. In fact, after the album was out, Page and Bonham said they weren't really happy with some of the music on ITTOD, and they wanted to return to a harder sound.

Okay. Why is that you never really hear much of ITTOD on cover songs and on the radio. The only songs I have ever heard is Fool in the rain on radio.

You could say the same thing about Presence (and a lot of the material on PG). At least in the radio market I listened to when I was young, none of the songs on Presence--even Achilles--got radio play.

If you put on Hot Dog. It does not sound like them.

Would you say the same about D'yer Mak'er and The Crunge? They occasionally tried different genres on their albums that were outside of rock, broadly defined. Whether they succeeded is a matter of personal taste. For example, D'yer Mak'er is the only LZ song I won't listen to. Terrible in every way, but I like the Crunge and Hot Dog.

"When people talk about classic Zeppelin. This era is not really mentioned as much."

Because it's not the classic era. When people talk about the classic era, they also don't mention the '69 tour either, to my knowledge.

For me, saying "you have to consider the conditions on wich the members found themsleves while the recording sessions" is bullshit. I never bought that.

I agree. An album shouldn't have to be listened to within the context of a band's trials or tribulations or lack thereof. An album either stands on its own, or it doesn't. For that matter, LZ II was recorded under difficult circumstances (e.g. ducking in and out of recording studios while on the road), yet no one seems to pull that out when discussing what a great album it is.

[Amstel]

"An album shouldn't have to be listened to within the context of a band's trials or tribulations or lack thereof. An album either stands on its own, or it doesn't. For that matter, LZ II was recorded under difficult circumstances (e.g. ducking in and out of recording studios while on the road), yet no one seems to pull that out when discussing what a great album it is."

You can't compare! Why? Because one's addiction to any substance can effect everything they do.

I believe Moby Dick could have been better recorded, but to say what you do is ridiculous.

Creativeness can be effected by substances problems, being in different studios can't! They were playing live constantly, and the creativeness they had during that time was tremendous.

You can't compare!

[Grits 'n' Gravy]

You can't compare! Why? Because one's addiction to any substance can effect everything they do.

Who cares? I don't know the background of every album I own, and I don't really care to. Either I like it or I don't. If I have to "factor in" what the band was going through, then my first thought is I am trying to justify a crappy album. If a band is in such a state that they produce garbage, perhaps they should clean up a bit first and then do something. (by the way, I like ITTOD on its own terms).

Besides, I'm sure that *a lot* of music has been recorded with band members abusing any number of substances. That excuses nothing, and I won't be an apologist for a band, even if I really like them generally.

[ledzepfilm]

You could easily know ITTOD is Zeppelin because of Bonham. He probably achieved one of the greatest drum sounds in rock on that album.

[Geezer]

They were very creative during this period.

I disagree. They wrote only 7 songs. How were they creative?

[Amstel]

I disagree. They wrote only 7 songs. How were they creative?

Presence only had 7 songs. Do you believe Led Zeppelin was creative during those sessions?

Hell, Led Zeppelin only had 9 songs on their first, 9 on their 2nd, 10 on their third, 8 on their 4th, & 8 on HOTH.

[Grits 'n' Gravy]

I disagree. They wrote only 7 songs. How were they creative?

Nope--they recorded 7 seven songs on ITTOD. They had at least 10 ready for it.

[magerogue]

Wish You Were Here has 5 songs. I don't think you can measure creativity by the number of songs on a record.

If they weren't creative they wouldn't have been able to make Carouselambra or I'm Gonna Crawl.

[Geezer]

Nope--they recorded 7 seven songs on ITTOD. They had at least 10 ready for it.

I was talking about Presence.

[Grits 'n' Gravy]

I was talking about Presence.

Yep, I see that now. I got lost in the bouncing from Presence to ITTOD. Mea culpa.

[Geezer]

Presence only had 7 songs. Do you believe Led Zeppelin was creative during those sessions?

As songwriters? I believe they weren't that creative during those sessions.