Reality-based thinking

[Disco Duck]

There is a famous quote by Karl Rove:

"Guys like you are in what we call the reality-based community. You believe that solutions emerge from you study of discernible reality. That's not the way the world really works anymore,'' he continued. ''We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.''

IMO, you can divide Americans into two camps: People who like to deal with empirical facts and people who trade in magical thinking. Experience has taught me that both groups cut across race, gender, social class, and political affiliation. However, there are some caveats. For example, people with postgraduate degrees are more likely to fall within the reality-based camp. Also, people who normally belong to the reality-based group can adopt magical thinking behaviors in times of stress. Most important, people can change groups. Reality-based types in search of certainty may become magical thinkers. Magical thinkers whose core beliefs are shaken may adopt reality-based attitudes.

In which camp do you belong?

[pottedplant]

I wonder how Rove's reality-based thinking worked on the Iraq war - when he was advising Bush? We're still studying it - magical thinking about the outcome, I guess.

[hecube]

There's no such thing as a reality-based community. At best, those identifying with reality-based community might be able to change their mindset with new information faster than a faith-based community.

What we perceive as "reality" is a mind-construct.

[Janvier]

Wow, I hadn't heard about Karl Rove in a long time! my memory is blurry but I remember he was considered a gray eminence and was part of the administration's hawks? I doubt the expression 'we're an empire' is still valid today.

[Honeydrip79]

[JP78]

There is a famous quote by Karl Rove:

"Guys like you are in what we call the reality-based community. You believe that solutions emerge from you study of discernible reality. That's not the way the world really works anymore,'' he continued. ''We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.''

IMO, you can divide Americans into two camps: People who like to deal with empirical facts and people who trade in magical thinking. Experience has taught me that both groups cut across race, gender, social class, and political affiliation. However, there are some caveats. For example, people with postgraduate degrees are more likely to fall within the reality-based camp. Also, people who normally belong to the reality-based group can adopt magical thinking behaviors in times of stress. Most important, people can change groups. Reality-based types in search of certainty may become magical thinkers. Magical thinkers whose core beliefs are shaken may adopt reality-based attitudes.

In which camp do you belong?

by magical thinking do you mean religion ?

was Rove engaged in magical thinking during that embarrassing election night moment on fox news when he refused to accept Obama won even when Fox News's own election numbers people were saying it.

[JP78]

I wonder how Rove's reality-based thinking worked on the Iraq war - when he was advising Bush? We're still studying it - magical thinking about the outcome, I guess.

Rove was a political advisor , not foreign policy expert. his only concern was what would help Bush politically at the moment . not whether a policy is right or wrong .

[SteveAJones]

I am a proponent of lateral thinking.

[Disco Duck]

by magical thinking do you mean religion ?

No, but some atheists claim that religious beliefs are a form of magical thinking. The Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary definition is as follows:

magical thinking (noun) : Thinking involving assumptions that don't hold up to rational scrutiny�for example, the belief that things that resemble one another share fundamental properties."

[pottedplant]

Rove was a political advisor , not foreign policy expert. his only concern was what would help Bush politically at the moment . not whether a policy is right or wrong .

Oh, thank you for the clarification. I meant Cheney/Rumsfeld. Too much magical thinking. My bad.

[Pagesbow]

[hecube]

All thinking is magical thinking.

[Strider]

In my opinion, any time you try to divide people into two camps a third camp will assert itself.

Additionally, any thread or philosophy based on the jabberings of Karl Rove is folly.

[#1fan]

is magical like quantum physics, because that says you create your own reality and it works.

[FireOpal]

I tried the reality thing; didn't care for it much. Still, it keeps rearing its ugly head.

[Disco Duck]

In my opinion, any time you try to divide people into two camps a third camp will assert itself.

Additionally, any thread or philosophy based on the jabberings of Karl Rove is folly.

I can't argue with either point.