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Overrated

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On 07/27/2013 at 5:46 PM, Sue Dounim said:

I wonder how many posts it'll be before someone says 1977/06/21.

I'll say the drum solo/guitar "noise experience" for 06/21. If someone just listened to that, having never heard the whole show, it wouldn't be clear what the fuss was all about. I know some like these drum/guitar sections, but for me, no, I've clipped them off my recording when I drive.

Enjoy your posts!

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On 07/27/2013 at 5:01 PM, ListenToThis said:

I'll start...

 

Bath 1970

 

Not as amazing IMO as people say it is. Simply a good show with crappy recordings. Better shows from the era with better sound. Pass.

 

 

Agreed. But hoping for a better recording some day. Maybe revise my opinion.

For now, Blueberry Hill and 09/19 second show are my 1970 favorites.

Thanks.

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No-one can argue against 9-24-70, it is simply awesome. However, my personal favorite from '70 is 09-03-07. I probably listen to that more often than most others.

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On 12/18/2016 at 1:44 PM, JohnOsbourne said:

The flat sound of the bootlegs of this show is overrated, but I do think performance-wise this show lives up to its rep.  Overall I think the Japanese tour of '71 is overrated, in the sense that it's not really better than the amazing shows from the US '71.

Ditto. Were it not for the (IMO) horrid sound mixing of this show (Plant being buried, etc.) this would easily be one of my most listened-to bootlegs. I do think it is easily one of the best shows Zeppelin ever did (certainly the best show of 1971 to me). I was initially turned off and disappointed when I first heard it though, as I read the Year of Led Zeppelin blog entry on this show, which, I think, overrated the overall sound quality. It's great but not "outstanding" nor "perfectly clear and balanced" (for a soundboard anyway). I also hate how much it cuts away to the alternate source(s). If memory serves, it happens almost constantly during several songs.

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Regarding Bath 70. The tape is certainly good enough to determine the band is on fire but it's just too much for my ears. I really have to be in the mood for it.

Lots of great shows with bad tapes.

Earl's Court was more like a celebration or coronation if you will. 5/18 5/23 5/24 are GREAT shows. The band had reached it's zenith, kings of Hard Rock/Heavy Metal.

The Earls Court shows to me are overrated. I love them especially 5/23 lately (better quality tapes?)

However, at my buddy's shop any Earls Court flies out the door. Extremely popular but not close to their best.

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1977 soundboards in general.  I'm listening now to Landover 5/25/77 and blech, what an awfully dry and flat sounding board tape, of which there are many in '77.  Page's sloppiness and Plant's cracked voice are under a bright , fluorescent shine with all warts exposed.   Page's solos sound like a Youtube shred video on these 77 boards!  Also,  I also do not like the sound of Jones Alembic on this tour.  Audience tapes are much better for listening to 77. 

Edited by porgie66

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20 hours ago, porgie66 said:

1977 soundboards in general.  I'm listening now to Landover 5/25/77 and blech, what an awfully dry and flat sounding board tape, of which there are many in '77.  Page's sloppiness and Plant's cracked voice are under a bright , fluorescent shine with all warts exposed.   Page's solos sound like a Youtube shred video on these 77 boards!  Also,  I also do not like the sound of Jones Alembic on this tour.  Audience tapes are much better for listening to 77. 

I too do not understand the reason for the Alembics, then again many, many of the best bass players began using them around 75' or thereabouts and then they kinda disappeared in the 80's. I much prefer the clean, heavy bottom of the Fender Jazz to the twang of the Alembics. I believe they sounded much better live vs. how they sound on a boot. Also, in regard to the 8 string, I think this was used to bring a fuller sound and act as a kind of bass / rhythm guitar to songs such as ALS where the bass mimics some of the guitar lines. I really don't know much about bass so all of this is just suposition.

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1 hour ago, IpMan said:

I too do not understand the reason for the Alembics, then again many, many of the best bass players began using them around 75' or thereabouts and then they kinda disappeared in the 80's. I much prefer the clean, heavy bottom of the Fender Jazz to the twang of the Alembics. I believe they sounded much better live vs. how they sound on a boot. Also, in regard to the 8 string, I think this was used to bring a fuller sound and act as a kind of bass / rhythm guitar to songs such as ALS where the bass mimics some of the guitar lines. I really don't know much about bass so all of this is just suposition.

Yes, all good points. The percussive attack on the Alembic probably worked much better in the large halls , but it sounds like ass on a dry soundboard. 

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So are there any good boots with a GOOD sound quality? Like Matrix's of outstanding - or at least, really good '77 gigs?

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3 hours ago, Thomasw536 said:

Oh, Eddie!  So lovely seeing you.

Yeah, Eddie and that La run - no doubt. But the quality is just under what I find enjoyable (although for LTTE - I do make the exception as it is exceptional). Eddie is audience. An Audience mixed with a board so you get the nice precision of boards, but tapered with the bigger audience sound. I hope this makes sense - I am a complete layman - but I know what I like.

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That's actually a very good question.

Maryland automatically came to mind but when I checked, no Matrix of any of the four shows. I also thought Magical Sound Boogie was a matrix but all SBD.

I know that a guy on you-tube made a matrix of 2/10/75 and some other really good "professional" sounding stuff from other bands. Randy Butternubs. You may want to check his page.

But with 77 the boards are mostly complete and boast some of the best audience recordings of any year. May be a White Whale....

 

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All of 1972. Everybody always goes on about how 1972 was the best live year for Led Zeppelin. I respectfully disagree. The Song Remains The Same is better than anything I've heard from 1972.

And I'll go further than that. Knebworth 79 was the best Led Zeppelin concert since MSG 1973. The only problem is that the bootlegs have a bad mix! Listen to the Knebworth tracks on DVD. There was no overdubbing and minimal editing. You can check this out at the Garden Tapes if you wish.

Rock and roll!

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7 hours ago, kayley10 said:

All of 1972. Everybody always goes on about how 1972 was the best live year for Led Zeppelin. I respectfully disagree. The Song Remains The Same is better than anything I've heard from 1972.

I see where you're coming from. The Japan tour from this year is good, but pales in comparison to the one the year before, and it marks the first time that one of the band members (Plant) is not consistently firing on all cylinders. The general consensus is that the Australia shows are good but none are really amazing. That leaves the North American tour. Even though they were pretty consistent overall, there were a couple of nights (Charlotte, San Bernadino) where the band was merely decent as opposed to exceptional. I still LOVE this tour as I think they played two of their best shows ever (6/19 Seattle and 6/25 LA).

That being said, "best live year" is highly subjective. If we're talking in terms of consistency, I'd say the winner there would probably be 70 or 71. This year (along with 77) is probably my personal favorite live year, with my least favorites being 1980 (bad setlist, Page smacked on heroin, Bonzo being subdued, Plant not really wanting to be there, etc.) and 1975 (Plant's voice is shit, Page is a shadow of his 1973 self, minimal changing of the setlist from gig to gig, no acoustic set, etc.).

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9 hours ago, kayley10 said:

All of 1972. Everybody always goes on about how 1972 was the best live year for Led Zeppelin. I respectfully disagree. The Song Remains The Same is better than anything I've heard from 1972.

And I'll go further than that. Knebworth 79 was the best Led Zeppelin concert since MSG 1973. The only problem is that the bootlegs have a bad mix! Listen to the Knebworth tracks on DVD. There was no overdubbing and minimal editing. You can check this out at the Garden Tapes if you wish.

Rock and roll!

I definitely would not say '72 is overrated, but I do think there's a mystique associated with the American shows that's unwarranted.  It was a short tour, incompletely documented and many shows are only sketchily recorded.  I think there's a tendency to overstate the truly epic shows like Seattle (and do we really know that they played 4 hours at Nassau?), when the excellent but more vanilla shows like San Bernadino were the norm.  They didn't toss out the set every night in '72.

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Having listened again to 5/24/75, I think this is more the culprit for me thinking the Earl's Court shows to be overrated. I still think 5/25/75 is overrated (as in it is not one of the best shows the band ever put on), but I've warmed up to it more and now consider it one of the top 75 shows (even though I still think 75 as a whole is a bit of a mess). But I constantly see 5/24 cited not only as the best Earl's Court gig, but as one of the best shows of 1975, if not one of the best shows of latter Zeppelin. When I see this, I find myself scratching my head and wondering if I listened to the same show everyone else has. To my ears the band doesn't truly gel until No Quarter, which is a LONG time to warm up. Plus, Bonzo seems to be having a bit of an off night, at least at the start. Listen to his fill at the end of Rock and Roll. He sounds sloppy and tired. Compare this with the fill on the 25th. Much more energetic and on point. The sound of the 24th certainly doesn't do it any favors either. It's definitely inferior to the 25th. When it comes to the Earls Court shows, I'd actually rank this as one of the weakest ones, with the 18th and 25th being the best.

That said, all of this is just opinion of course.

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On ‎7‎/‎28‎/‎2013 at 5:31 AM, thelema said:

1971/09/29

 

I never understood all the fuss about this show. I like it alright and the setlist is better than any other 1971 show (bar Copenhagen) but the performance lacks the raw energy and excitement that other shows from that year have. It seems that only Jimmy is REALLY ON that night. Maybe that's because they were recording.

Uhhhhhhh.... WHAT?  You can't recognize how BEASTLY Bonzo was that night??  Seriously?  Wow.

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On ‎1‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 9:28 PM, JohnOsbourne said:

I definitely would not say '72 is overrated, but I do think there's a mystique associated with the American shows that's unwarranted.  It was a short tour, incompletely documented and many shows are only sketchily recorded.  I think there's a tendency to overstate the truly epic shows like Seattle (and do we really know that they played 4 hours at Nassau?), when the excellent but more vanilla shows like San Bernadino were the norm.  They didn't toss out the set every night in '72.

People on here seriously think 1972 Zep is overrated? 

6/15/72 is some of the raunchiest, nastiest playing I've ever heard.  EVER.

The Nassau shows are legendary.  As is the 2nd Seattle show.  The playing in the first Seattle show is extraordinary too... wish more of that great recording existed.  And we all know about the LA/LB shows and how great they were.

Zeppelin in 72 being overrated makes me laugh.

Edited by LedElvis75

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2/12/75 Great mood and great atmosphere but Plant is really rough and so is Page. Might be their worst Dazed and Confused I've heard (sad to say). The funny thing is that after Dazed Page seems to really turn it on. Black Dog and Heartbreaker feature some great performances by him. 

the 77 tour - I know the general consensus outside of the die-hard community is that this tour was disappointing but a lot of really big fans tend to love this one. Doesn't do much for me. They don't sound like their old selves anymore.

And finally...

the O2 - the best thing about it was that it HAPPENED. Otherwise, Page is really sloppy and his guitar tone is total mud. Additionally, I don't think tuning down a whole step really works for Zeppelin songs. It goes along well with Black Sabbath stuff, but it just doesn't sound right for Led Zeppelin

I think it would be nice to have a underrated thread though, then we could bring up stuff like Nassau 6/15/72, MSG 71 and Boston 71

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On 4/30/2017 at 4:55 PM, ZepHead315 said:

Having listened again to 5/24/75, I think this is more the culprit for me thinking the Earl's Court shows to be overrated. I still think 5/25/75 is overrated (as in it is not one of the best shows the band ever put on), but I've warmed up to it more and now consider it one of the top 75 shows (even though I still think 75 as a whole is a bit of a mess). But I constantly see 5/24 cited not only as the best Earl's Court gig, but as one of the best shows of 1975, if not one of the best shows of latter Zeppelin. When I see this, I find myself scratching my head and wondering if I listened to the same show everyone else has. To my ears the band doesn't truly gel until No Quarter, which is a LONG time to warm up. Plus, Bonzo seems to be having a bit of an off night, at least at the start. Listen to his fill at the end of Rock and Roll. He sounds sloppy and tired. Compare this with the fill on the 25th. Much more energetic and on point. The sound of the 24th certainly doesn't do it any favors either. It's definitely inferior to the 25th. When it comes to the Earls Court shows, I'd actually rank this as one of the weakest ones, with the 18th and 25th being the best.

That said, all of this is just opinion of course.

The best shows of the EC run were the 18th & 23rd without a doubt, no question...end of story. Everyone is hot and on for both of these shows.

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14 hours ago, blooze said:

 

And finally...

the O2 - the best thing about it was that it HAPPENED. Otherwise, Page is really sloppy and his guitar tone is total mud. Additionally, I don't think tuning down a whole step really works for Zeppelin songs. It goes along well with Black Sabbath stuff, but it just doesn't sound right for Led Zeppelin

 

I could not disagree more if I tried as Page was anything BUT sloppy. In fact, he played it way too safe and restrained compared to the rehearsal DVD which showed the old Page on many of the songs. But to call Page sloppy at the O2...I have no idea what you were listening to but he was definitely not sloppy. I do agree that SOME of the songs Page's tone is not what I would have expected, TSRTS is an excellent example...muddy.

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2 hours ago, IpMan said:

The best shows of the EC run were the 18th & 23rd without a doubt, no question...end of story. Everyone is hot and on for both of these shows.

Yup. Agreed !

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4 hours ago, IpMan said:

I could not disagree more if I tried as Page was anything BUT sloppy. In fact, he played it way too safe and restrained compared to the rehearsal DVD which showed the old Page on many of the songs. But to call Page sloppy at the O2...I have no idea what you were listening to but he was definitely not sloppy. I do agree that SOME of the songs Page's tone is not what I would have expected, TSRTS is an excellent example...muddy.

Just go to the solo post-bow. Incredibly sloppy. Bending out of tune and everything. He's additionally doing that thing where his picking hand is just going at any string within reach. Not much accuracy I'm afraid. Find similar playing in the GTBT and BD solos. I will admit that the muddy tone will help a lot of the sloppy playing to pass by unnoticed. But if he was using his 1975 setup, the general public would have picked up on it much more easily. 

I will concede that he does do a lot of playing it safe though compared to other shows during the Zeppelin era, which might have been a good idea.

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