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1971/09/29

I never understood all the fuss about this show. I like it alright and the setlist is better than any other 1971 show (bar Copenhagen) but the performance lacks the raw energy and excitement that other shows from that year have. It seems that only Jimmy is REALLY ON that night. Maybe that's because they were recording.

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1971/09/29

I never understood all the fuss about this show. I like it alright and the setlist is better than any other 1971 show (bar Copenhagen) but the performance lacks the raw energy and excitement that other shows from that year have. It seems that only Jimmy is REALLY ON that night. Maybe that's because they were recording.

tbh, I just can't get into it because Robert's voice is so buried in the mix it's irritating. Same thing with 1973/01/22.
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I'll start...

Bath 1970

Not as amazing IMO as people say it is. Simply a good show with crappy recordings. Better shows from the era with better sound. Pass.

The raves about Bath 1970 came from the people who were at the concert. Basing an opinion about a show on some crappy audience recording is a fool's game.

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...Seriously, you're all [EDIT: except Sue] silly.

:P

wait, I'm silly too? What did I do?

Sorry, guys, but you know I can't resist:post-9335-0-92626100-1375544248_thumb.jp

"Stop this, it's SILLY!" :lol: :lol: :lol:

Beyond that I think I'll refrain from adding my two cents to the discussion, but take this thought to bed with you tonight:

One man's overrated is another man's underrated.

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I personally don't think any Led Zeppelin show is overrated. Some are simply more popular than others.

True dat, and it's not like we'd ever come to a collective agreement, given personal tastes and whatnot...

I mean, just to give an example, some people think the Knebworth shows are among Zeppelin's best; personally I consider the Knebworth gigs mediocre at best, especially given how much better their Copenhagen warmup dates were a week before. See what I mean?

Thing is, when it comes to "such and such show is over/underrated", who really gives a shit? :lol: Again, on the night I'm sure the audience thought any given gig was pretty damn good...these things were not meant to be (over)analyzed fourty some odd years after the fact...stuff can only be considered 'overrated' in retrospect. IMO any live performance cannot be looked upon that way...I mean, can you imagine, four hundred years ago, attendees of the Globe Theatre in London being like, "Oh, I thought Tuesday night's performance of Macbeth was much better than Thursday night's..." or "The guy playing Hamlet really blew the 'To Be Or Not To Be' soliloquy last night!":lol: Live performance is about the moment, nothing more, nothing less.

Edited by Nutrocker
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  • 3 years later...
On 8/3/2013 at 11:32 PM, Nutrocker said:

Thing is, when it comes to "such and such show is over/underrated", who really gives a shit? :lol: Again, on the night I'm sure the audience thought any given gig was pretty damn good

Very true, Nutrocker! I'm sure even the audience at Tempe 77 thought the gig was fantastic. After all, you don't hear any booing even during the dreadful Achilles from that show. And it is true that at the end of the day, it does not matter which show we think is overrated or underrated. That being said, I think it's fun to hear everyone's views on different shows.

Here's some shows I think are overrated:

Southampton - Even though the sound quality is about as good as it gets, this show always left me cold. To me, it's just average. Even with the How Many More Times/Communication Breakdown medley at the end, I just think the band sounds rather subdued.  Robert's shaky voice doesn't help either.

MSG 73 - Some great performances (SIBLY, NQ, D&C, STH) , but overall these shows are just decent. IMO, shows like Kezar are superior to these shows, which are also subpar compared to Euro 73.

2/12/75 - Again, fantastic sound quality, but Robert's bad voice kinda takes it down a notch, even though the rest of the band is on fire.

Earl's Court - I explained in another thread. Basically, Robert's voice is still kinda shaky, and Jimmy's guitar tone is so thin that the whole band sounds subdued. I do like the setlist and overall vibe, but there are better shows from 75 for me.

Badgeholders - Don't get me wrong, this is a great show, but I find myself disagreeing with people when they say it's their favorite of the LA 77 run. There's a number of technical issues with Page's guitar, Kashmir is botched, and the acoustic set is a little dull to me. On the whole, I find 6/21 much better in terms of performance. That's not to say this show doesn't have its share of great moments (NQ, ALS, Keith Moon showing up), but I just think there's more great moments at the 6/21 show.

Knebworth - I agree with you here. Shows are decent but pale in comparison to the Copenhagen warm-ups.

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56 minutes ago, ZepHead315 said:

Very true, Nutrocker! I'm sure even the audience at Tempe 77 thought the gig was fantastic. After all, you don't hear any booing even during the dreadful Achilles from that show. And it is true that at the end of the day, it does not matter which show we think is overrated or underrated. That being said, I think it's fun to hear everyone's views on different shows.

Here's some shows I think are overrated:

Southampton - Even though the sound quality is about as good as it gets, this show always left me cold. To me, it's just average. Even with the How Many More Times/Communication Breakdown medley at the end, I just think the band sounds rather subdued.  Robert's shaky voice doesn't help either.

MSG 73 - Some great performances (SIBLY, NQ, D&C, STH) , but overall these shows are just decent. IMO, shows like Kezar are superior to these shows, which are also subpar compared to Euro 73.

2/12/75 - Again, fantastic sound quality, but Robert's bad voice kinda takes it down a notch, even though the rest of the band is on fire.

Earl's Court - I explained in another thread. Basically, Robert's voice is still kinda shaky, and Jimmy's guitar tone is so thin that the whole band sounds subdued. I do like the setlist and overall vibe, but there are better shows from 75 for me.

Badgeholders - Don't get me wrong, this is a great show, but I find myself disagreeing with people when they say it's their favorite of the LA 77 run. There's a number of technical issues with Page's guitar, Kashmir is botched, and the acoustic set is a little dull to me. On the whole, I find 6/21 much better in terms of performance. That's not to say this show doesn't have its share of great moments (NQ, ALS, Keith Moon showing up), but I just think there's more great moments at the 6/21 show.

Knebworth - I agree with you here. Shows are decent but pale in comparison to the Copenhagen warm-ups.

American audiences in general in '77 were probably as wasted as the band, so I'm not sure their enthusiasm for the shows is a particularly good metric...

Anyway, to me for a show to be overrated implies there is a general opinion that the show is better than it is.  By this criterion, Southampton isn't overrated since the general (and correct) consensus is that the performance is very sloppy, amazing sound quality aside.  I don't think MSG 73 are generally regarded as great shows, so again, can't be thought of as overrated.  If anything, MSG 73 is underrated, and 2-12-75 lives up to its billing (admittedly the next two Nassau nights are better, but those are superlative shows). 

I agree with you on Earl's Court (the West Coast shows were much better), Badgeholders, and Knebworth. 

I would actually add, somewhat reluctantly, Berkeley '71/Going to California.  It's a legendary bootleg, obviously, and a very good show, but to me there were better shows from the US '71 tour (among some of the band's best).

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On ‎7‎/‎28‎/‎2013 at 4:31 AM, thelema said:

1971/09/29

 

I never understood all the fuss about this show. I like it alright and the setlist is better than any other 1971 show (bar Copenhagen) but the performance lacks the raw energy and excitement that other shows from that year have. It seems that only Jimmy is REALLY ON that night. Maybe that's because they were recording.

The flat sound of the bootlegs of this show is overrated, but I do think performance-wise this show lives up to its rep.  Overall I think the Japanese tour of '71 is overrated, in the sense that it's not really better than the amazing shows from the US '71.

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The Copenhagen 79' shows are grossly underrated as the band is in top form. There are also several shows form the 80' European tour which are excellent and underrated. The irony is because Zep were so damn consistently good live from 68'-73' that many shows from that era are overrated due to the sheer number of excellent shows to choose from. On the other hand, once the live shows started having issues more frequently, such as Robert's vocal problems for a good portion of the 75' tour, and Jimmy's problems beginning in 77'. The really good shows from 79' & 80' are automatically underrated due to the view that Jimmy has lost it by then, plus the excellent shows from 77' were so damned good and epic, the choice of the band to "cut the waffle" and dial it back a bit in 79' & 80' makes many of those great gigs from that era extremely underrated.

It's almost comical, for many, 68'-73' Zip live could do no wrong, whereas 79'-80' could do no right.

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I would say none are over-rated. There have been some quite a lot better than others. But none that i have not enjoyed. I always say the actual band are vastly under-rated. Now that is. I mean, How many bands as old are talked about by kids ?. I have seen a couple of lads from my Daughters high School with Zep tops on (and Nirvana btw). They are just Legendary and have left a legacy that will live on for years and years to come. Cannot pick any negative with artists who have done that.

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On 08/03/2013 at 10:32 PM, Nutrocker said:

True dat, and it's not like we'd ever come to a collective agreement, given personal tastes and whatnot...

 

I mean, just to give an example, some people think the Knebworth shows are among Zeppelin's best; personally I consider the Knebworth gigs mediocre at best, especially given how much better their Copenhagen warmup dates were a week before. See what I mean?

 

Thing is, when it comes to "such and such show is over/underrated", who really gives a shit? :lol: Again, on the night I'm sure the audience thought any given gig was pretty damn good...these things were not meant to be (over)analyzed fourty some odd years after the fact...stuff can only be considered 'overrated' in retrospect. IMO any live performance cannot be looked upon that way...I mean, can you imagine, four hundred years ago, attendees of the Globe Theatre in London being like, "Oh, I thought Tuesday night's performance of Macbeth was much better than Thursday night's..." or "The guy playing Hamlet really blew the 'To Be Or Not To Be' soliloquy last night!":lol: Live performance is about the moment, nothing more, nothing less.

Yes, I like your comparison of Shakespeare to Zeppelin, the Bards of Heavy Metal!

But we do have recorded performances of Shakespeare and do compare Hamlets, say Olivier to Branagh, and find points to praise one actor, or one show, over another.

I think the litmus test for great performances is a set of well-written criticisms over time, such as those you've given, and our desire for repeated hearings of favorite shows. When the critics and audience agree, it's an interesting indication of the strength of the show. And it helps newcomers decide which 2 to 3.5 hour sets they should go to. The "go-to" lists may be one of the best results of these discussions.

You write: "Live performance is about the moment, nothing more, nothing less." But when live becomes a permanent record, we help each other know which show falters, which excels, and which is supreme.

Thanks for your posts.

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