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If only they were. Hatred and violence against those who you perceive as "different" are very human traits.

Speaking of Germans and Nazi's, does anyone who reads or knows some of the history of the Third Reich, believe that the Fuhrer actually escaped from Berlin just as the Russians were advancing on the Reich Chancellery?

It seems that all the facts make it clear that Adolf Hitler committed suicide with his wife, Eva Braun, in the Führerbunker in the dying days of World War II. However, there are many who dispute this claim and believe that Hitler faked his suicide with a Doppelganger and eventually made his way to one of the South American countries that were sympathetic to the Nazi cause. (Brazil, Bolivia, Paraguay, etc...)

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Just because someone says something, doesn't make it true. From what I understand, the Russians kept his head as proof and burned the rest of him so there wouldn't be a gravesite for martyrs to worship him.

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Just because someone says something, doesn't make it true. From what I understand, the Russians kept his head as proof and burned the rest of him so there wouldn't be a gravesite for martyrs to worship him.

I get your point and meaning but I would like to ask you two things:

When you say "the Russians kept his head as proof", what exactly are do you mean? Are you saying that the Russians had/have Adolf Hitler's actual head (from the neck up) in some kind of Scientific jar in some dirty basement in Moscow?

Secondly. As you say, are you sure that the Russians "burned the rest of him so there wouldn't be a gravesite for martyrs to worship him"? Where did you read or hear about this? Any point of reference about you knowing this would be most welcome.

I have been a reader of Nazi Germany and Hitler's Third Reich for over 25 years and I have never heard or read of (1), the Russians keeping Hitler's head as proof and (2) burning the rest of his body as they did not want there to be some kind of "shrine" for Adolf Hitler.

If what you are saying in your post is actually true (and I think that you are wrong and just misinformed), my bringing up the theory that Hitler (possibly) survived the the war would not be a "conspiracy theory" now would it?

Edited by kingzoso
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I saw it somewhere in a documentary. I don't know if it's true or not, as I said earlier. I remember it being said they kept it to prove he was in fact dead. I could give a shit really. Disprove it or don't believe it, whatever. There is no way Hitler, with his ego and mental illness, would've gone into hiding the rest of his life in South America.

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A quick google search led me straight to this:

Moscow, Russia (CNN) -- The remains of Adolf Hitler were burned in 1970 by Soviet KGB agents and thrown into a river in Germany on direct orders from the spy agency's chief, a top Russian security official said this week.

The head archivist of Russia's Federal Security Service (FSB) -- the successor to the former Soviet Union's KGB -- confirmed for the first time the chain of events that led to the disposal of Hitler's body, and who ordered the operation, in an exclusive interview with Russia's Interfax news agency.

Gen. Vasily Khristoforov told Interfax in an interview published Monday that previously secret documents show that KGB chief Yuri Andropov, with prior consent from the Soviet Communist Party leadership, ordered a top secret operation to destroy the remains of Hitler, his wife Eva Braun, Nazi Germany's propaganda chief, Joseph Goebbels; and Goebbels' entire family.

Khristoforov said according to the documents, Andropov's decision to destroy the remains of the Nazi leaders and their family members was motivated by the fears of the KGB and Soviet Communist Party leadership that Hitler's burial site could become a place of worship for supporters of fascist ideas.

Neither the FSB nor Khristoforov were immediately available to comment on the secret documents, when asked by CNN.

The operation, code-named "The Archives," was carried out by a group of special KGB agents in Magdeburg, East Germany, where the bodies had been secretly buried February 21, 1946, on the territory of a Soviet military facility, Khristoforov said.

Two protocols were compiled after the operation was carried out on April 4, 1970, the general said. The first documented the opening of a grave that contained the remains of the Nazi leaders and their family members, and the other one detailed their physical destruction.

"The remains were burnt on a bonfire outside the town of Shoenebeck, 11 kilometers away from Magdeburg, then ground into ashes, collected and thrown into the Biederitz River," the second document reads, according to Khristoforov.

The bodies of Hitler, Braun and the Goebbels family had been discovered by the Soviet Army in May 1945. The bodies of Goebbels and his wife were found May 2 in the garden of Nazi Germany's Reich Chancellery. The bodies of the couple's children were recovered the next day, and the corpses of Hitler and Braun were discovered May 5 in a crater from an artillery shell outside his bunker in Berlin.

According to historical accounts, Hitler's death was a combination of a suicide by gunshot and cyanide poisoning on April 30, 1945, when the Soviet Army entered the Nazi Germany capital.

In early June of that year, the Soviets buried the bodies in a forest near the town of Rathenau, Germany. Eight months later, they secretly re-buried the remains in the Soviet Army's garrison in Magdeburg.

But in March 1970, the Soviets decided to abandon the garrison and pass it over to the East German civilian authorities.

As long as the burial place of the Nazi leaders was in the territory of a Soviet garrison, it could be kept secret and barred from strangers. But following relocation of the Soviet Army unit, the decision was made not to rebury Hitler's remains but to burn them, Khristoforov explained, calling it "perhaps a reasonable decision" given the circumstances.

Khristoforov said that all that remains of Hitler's corpse are fragments of his jawbone and skull, items that are kept in Russia.

The general said the Russian FSB has no doubts that the bone fragments are genuine. No other fragments of the German dictator exist in other countries, he said.

"Hitler's jaw is kept at the FSB archives, and the fragments of Hitler's skull are at the State Archive. There are no other parts of Hitler's body apart from these samples seized on May 5, 1945.

"Everything [else] that remained of Hitler was burnt in 1970," he added. "Those fragments are ... the only documented evidence of Hitler's death, which is why they are kept at the Russian FSB Central Archive as being particularly valuable."

Commenting on recent media reports that archeologist and bone specialist Nick Bellantoni and genetics professor Linda Strausbaugh of the University of Connecticut expressed doubts about the authenticity of the parts of Hitler's skull, Khristoforov said, "The U.S. researchers did not file such requests [for taking DNA samples] with the Russian FSB Central Archive.

"But even if you take the fragments kept in our custody, it is unclear what these data can be compared with."

In April 2000, a fragment of what was presented as Hitler's skull, complete with a bullet hole in it, was first displayed in Moscow at a World War II exhibition.

At the time, Sergei Mironenko, head of the Russian State Archives, told CNN that he is absolutely confident that the skull was authentic, and that there are many documents the Russian archives also put on display along with the skull to support that.

"Those documents provide convincing proof that all those speculations that Hitler could have survived and escaped, that he could have had plastic surgery, are absolutely groundless. He was a totally depressed man who was incapable of making political or any other kinds of decisions. He understood that his bunker, the crater [where he was found dead], would become his last refuge. And that's exactly what happened," Mironenko said.

I get your point and meaning but I would like to ask you two things:

When you say "the Russians kept his head as proof", what exactly are do you mean? Are you saying that the Russians had/have Adolf Hitler's actual head (from the neck up) in some kind of Scientific jar in some dirty basement in Moscow?

Secondly. As you say, are you sure that the Russians "burned the rest of him so there wouldn't be a gravesite for martyrs to worship him"? Where did you read or hear about this? Any point of reference about you knowing this would be most welcome.

I have been a reader of Nazi Germany and Hitler's Third Reich for over 25 years and I have never heard or read of (1), the Russians keeping Hitler's head as proof and (2) burning the rest of his body as they did not want there to be some kind of "shrine" for Adolf Hitler.

If what you are saying in your post is actually true (and I think that you are wrong and just misinformed), my bringing up the theory that Hitler (possibly) survived the the war would not be a "conspiracy theory" now would it?

I get your point and meaning but I would like to ask you two things:

When you say "the Russians kept his head as proof", what exactly are do you mean? Are you saying that the Russians had/have Adolf Hitler's actual head (from the neck up) in some kind of Scientific jar in some dirty basement in Moscow?

Secondly. As you say, are you sure that the Russians "burned the rest of him so there wouldn't be a gravesite for martyrs to worship him"? Where did you read or hear about this? Any point of reference about you knowing this would be most welcome.

I have been a reader of Nazi Germany and Hitler's Third Reich for over 25 years and I have never heard or read of (1), the Russians keeping Hitler's head as proof and (2) burning the rest of his body as they did not want there to be some kind of "shrine" for Adolf Hitler.

If what you are saying in your post is actually true (and I think that you are wrong and just misinformed), my bringing up the theory that Hitler (possibly) survived the the war would not be a "conspiracy theory" now would it?

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thank you, chase :)

the crop circles are amazing. i have no idea what/who makes them. i know that some are man-made, that is obvious and true, but some are just way to complex and exact to be made in darkness in a few hours .... the ones at 4.50 ..... mind-blowing .... and the butterfly - a group has claimed this, but i'm not convinced. how would you get all those angles, curves, lines in the right spot and proportions in the dark? and so quickly? with just a piece of wood? i can see that they could do the simpler ones, but man! some of them are just .......

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Just because someone says something, doesn't make it true. From what I understand, the Russians kept his head as proof and burned the rest of him so there wouldn't be a gravesite for martyrs to worship him.

i had read/heard something similar years ago, not sure what the source was, it was way before the internet. i heard that when the troops found him, he was dead and that they slashed/chopped his body into pieces and made his face unrecognisable, and the pieces either burned or disposed of in some way so that there could never be a grave for his followers to visit.

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i had read/heard something similar years ago, not sure what the source was, it was way before the internet. i heard that when the troops found him, he was dead and that they slashed/chopped his body into pieces and made his face unrecognisable, and the pieces either burned or disposed of in some way so that there could never be a grave for his followers to visit.

Read the CNN article I posted earlier. They kept his jaw and some of his skull for DNA/dental record proof. Wasn't hard to find, that's for sure! Hope you're doing well, slave! :peace:

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Read the CNN article I posted earlier. They kept his jaw and some of his skull for DNA/dental record proof. Wasn't hard to find, that's for sure! Hope you're doing well, slave! :peace:

yeah, i had already read it .

yes, doing well, thanks mate :)

how 'bout you?

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There is a very plausible and highly researched theory that both Hitler and Eva Braun survived the bunker and were spirited out of Berlin on April 19th. According to the claim the two flew out of Berlin on quite literally the last flight out leaving a doppelganger Hitler and Braun behind while the real couple escaped to Spain and into the arms of Franco. Unfortunately for the gruesome twosome, Franco was scared shitless with the Allied forces on his doorstep, that they should discover the truth and invade Spain in response. So, Franco had them both executed and the bodies cremated.

Who knows if it is true, sure would be a bit of poetic justice to say the least. Also, the fact that the surviving bunker staff later commented that both Hitler and Braun seemed to be two totally different people post April 19th lends plausibility to the claim. Up until April 19th Hitler was still in charge and quite competent, after April 19th he could barely drool much less anything else and was no longer giving orders.

Anyway, just food for thought.

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There is a very plausible and highly researched theory that both Hitler and Eva Braun survived the bunker and were spirited out of Berlin on April 19th. According to the claim the two flew out of Berlin on quite literally the last flight out leaving a doppelganger Hitler and Braun behind while the real couple escaped to Spain and into the arms of Franco. Unfortunately for the gruesome twosome, Franco was scared shitless with the Allied forces on his doorstep, that they should discover the truth and invade Spain in response. So, Franco had them both executed and the bodies cremated.

Who knows if it is true, sure would be a bit of poetic justice to say the least. Also, the fact that the surviving bunker staff later commented that both Hitler and Braun seemed to be two totally different people post April 19th lends plausibility to the claim. Up until April 19th Hitler was still in charge and quite competent, after April 19th he could barely drool much less anything else and was no longer giving orders.

Anyway, just food for thought.

Very interesting. Like I said, I have been a reader of Adolf Hitler and Nazi Germany for over 25 years now and I have never heard, read or seen anything of Hitler and Eva Braun being flown to Spain and then executed in Spain on direct orders of Generalissimo Franco.

I have also read that Adolf Hitler was very weird when it came to his sexual habits. Supposedly, he did not really enjoy the "physical" aspect of "love-making" but enjoyed more perverse ways that satisfied him. (Think of that as you may. I was not there and only speculating from a lot the things I have read).

I also read that Adolf Hitler was born with only one testicle and therefore, when it came to his committing suicide (if he indeed did commit suicide), He did not have the "Balls" to shoot himself in the head and therefore did the deed, not with a Luger, but with a cyanide capsule.

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yeah, i had already read it .

yes, doing well, thanks mate :)

how 'bout you?

Doin' fine thanks! :)

SR, that's interesting. I just have a hard time believing he would run from his bunker with EB in tow, only to be offed in Spain. Then again desperate times create desperate measures! Thanks for the alternate theory.

:peace:

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it does beg the question - why didn't they take photos/film of the body as proof?

If they (the Russians) have his jaw, with teeth for dental records and part of his skull for DNA - why would they need photographs or video, which are both always in question for authenticity?

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If they (the Russians) have his jaw, with teeth for dental records and part of his skull for DNA - why would they need photographs or video, which are both always in question for authenticity?

no, i mean, at the time. why didn't they take photos? you'd think they would have. or maybe they did, but have never been seen?

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Why would you cite Godwin's Law in a thread DISCUSSING Nazis and Hitler?

It begs the question whether you understand Godwin's Law.

The thread (Conspiracy Theories not Nazi's and Hitler) is now discussing Nazi's and Hitler since redrum compared them to Aliens. Pretty sure that we weren't discussing Nazi's and Hitler before that point? or at least non making direct comparisons to. Though by all means feel free to quote me all the posts where we were.

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The thread (Conspiracy Theories not Nazi's and Hitler) is now discussing Nazi's and Hitler since redrum compared them to Aliens. Pretty sure that we weren't discussing Nazi's and Hitler before that point? or at least non making direct comparisons to. Though by all means feel free to quote me all the posts where we were.

Godwin's Law references arguments that degenerate into name-calling and finally, references to Hitler or Nazis.

To the best of my understanding, it isn't applicable to simply mentioning or referencing the same.

But I could be wrong.

Going back through the thread, I realize it was, indeed, redrum's comment that veered onto the topic.

However, I still contend it wasn't particularly a comment that would fall under Godwin's Law.

Admittedly, it certainly sent the thread on a tangent.

Probably due, in no small part, to the Nazi discussion thread that was removed last week or so.

Anyway, I just thought it seemed an odd invocation of the Law. LOL

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Godwin's Law references arguments that degenerate into name-calling and finally, references to Hitler or Nazis.

To the best of my understanding, it isn't applicable to simply mentioning or referencing the same.

But I could be wrong.

Going back through the thread, I realize it was, indeed, redrum's comment that veered onto the topic.

However, I still contend it wasn't particularly a comment that would fall under Godwin's Law.

Admittedly, it certainly sent the thread on a tangent.

Probably due, in no small part, to the Nazi discussion thread that was removed last week or so.

Anyway, I just thought it seemed an odd invocation of the Law. LOL

I think you're just adding extra caveats. Which is soooooo like Hitler. He was always doing that because he only had one testicle, apparently.

"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."[2][3] In other words, Godwin said that, given enough time, in any online discussion—regardless of topic or scope—someone inevitably makes a comparison to Hitler or the Nazis."

But when the jury get back from their deliberation, I guess we'll find out. :Thinking:

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As the starter of this topic, I did not have any intention of this topic going one way or another. I just wanted anyone who cared to reply about ANY Conspiracy Theories that they felt or thought about that would bring (logical) discussion to a topic that I am very interested in.

Be it Aliens, Nazis, Bigfoot, Ted Bundy, Charlie Manson, JFK, Son of Sam, Illumanati, Mystery, Intrigue, Dinosaurs, Devil Worship, Drugs, CIA, whatever...

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Having said what I just said above, does anyone think or believe that the CIA really brought pure Cocaine into the inner cities of the United States of America (specifically in Los Angeles and New York City) in the early 1980's in their hopes of getting African-Americans dependent of drugs? I do not really believe this, however, I cannot say that this is out of the realm of possibility of any government. Maybe They thought this was a kind of "mind-control" or an effort to banish certain nationalities from being a Productive member of American Society.

Remember, this is a topic about CT's and any and all positive or negative comments are always welcome on MY part. I like to read the others opinions of anyone on this topic.

Edited by kingzoso
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Having said what I just said above, does anyone think or believe that the CIA really brought pure Cocaine into the inner cities of the United States of America (specifically in Los Angeles and New York City) in the early 1980's in their hopes of getting African-Americans dependent of drugs? I do not really believe this, however, I cannot say that this is out of the realm of possibility of any government. Maybe They thought this was a kind of "mind-control" or an effort to banish certain nationalities from being a Productive member of American Society.

Remember, this is a topic about CT's and any and all positive or negative comments are always welcome on MY part. I like to read the others opinions of anyone on this topic.

No. From what I've read, cocaine had been around at least since the 1960's. I suspect what happened is that South American suppliers realized they could expand their customer base in the U.S. if they dropped the price to levels low income Americans could afford. So they developed a cheaper form of cocaine, crack, and recruited local thugs to peddle it. I have a question for British posters. Is crack cocaine unique to the U.S. or is it used in the U.K. as well?

Edited by Disco Duck
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No. From what I've read, cocaine had been around at least since the 1960's. I suspect what happened is that South American suppliers realized they could expand their customer base in the U.S. if they dropped the price to levels low income Americans could afford. So they developed a cheaper form of cocaine, crack, and recruited local thugs to peddle it. I have a question for British posters. Is crack cocaine unique to the U.S. or is it used in the U.K. as well?

Good question for Our British Brothers.

I will add to this: Is regular Cocaine (powder) or hard Cocaine (rock/crack) very expensive or cheaper than the forms that are available in the U.S.A.? I realize the price goes up the farther the "product" has to travel. Plus you have to factor in, the supply and demand aspect of all this.

Disco Duck really brought up a very valid point.

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