Which performance is better 6/21/77, or 6/23/77

[godzilla777]

I think 6/21/77 has the edge. Bonham's drums were like cannons that night.

[ListenToThis]

TSRTS - 6/21 (established)

SA - 6/23 (greatest version ever)

NFBM - 6/21 (crazy stop/starts even more than usual, energy)

OTHAFA - 6/23 (solo makes it)

SIBLY - 6/21 (drums and emotion)

NQ - 6/21 (only thing better about 6/23 to me is the insanely cool keyboard bit Jonesy does prior to the theramin wows)

TYG - 6/21 (nailed it)

BOE - 6/21 (acoustic set for 6/23 is underwhelming on the whole)

GTC - 6/21

BYS - 6/21

WS - 6/23

Kash - 6/21 (greatest ever, Plant and Bonham locking in)

Heartbreaker 6/21 or TUF 6/23....Heartbreaker (Heartbreaker is good, not great, but TUF from 6/23 is underwhelming, the 6/25 version is much better)

MD - 6/21 (Moby Dick from Bonham's greatest show, makes sense)

Guitar Solo - who cares? (sorry)

ALS - this is close, probably 6/23 (both are fantastic, but Bonham is more manic on 6/23)

STH - 6/21 (genuine and gutsy)

RnR - 6/21 (the ending is insane)

6/21 wins for me. From a technical standpoint I believe Eddie is superior; Badgeholders is a great show because of the tight but loose and laid back / jovial nature)

[Sticks of Fire]

^^ Absolutely. 6/21 is the best 1977 has to offer.

[ZeppMan93]

6/21. TSRTS is phenomenal, Bonzo is on fire. That alone wins me over. 6/23 isn't bad with Keith Moon hammering away on the timpani's at the end of the set, but 6/21 is slightly better in my opinion.

[TheStairwayRemainsTheSame]

In my opinion the drumming in the TSRTS at the 21st is better than anything else

[Strider]

I think 6/21/77 has the edge. Bonham's drums were like cannons that night.

Are you insinuating that there was a night where Bonzo's drums weren't like cannons?

Seriously, this is the bane of relying only on bootlegs for judging a concert, for ask anyone who saw Led Zeppelin: John Bonham's drums were ALWAYS like cannonballs to your gut.

Trying to decide between 6/21 and 6/23 is splitting hairs to the nth degree. I was going to do a song by song contrast like ListenToThis did, and mine might have even turned out similar. But no, I am just going to tell you how I felt after each concert was over.

When I came out of the Forum the night of June 21, 1977, I thought I had seen the concert of the year. When I came out of the Forum the night of June 23, 1977, I thought I had seen the concert of my life!!! In fact, I couldn't much think at all for my mind had been COMPLETELY BLOWN AWAY!!! Keith Fucking Moon had just shared the stage with Led Zeppelin!!!!

Now, all of you trainspotters, go ahead and do A<B comparisons between your bootlegs and parse away at all the details and specifics of the performance and bleed the life out of the magical aura of both those nights. Why does there have to be one over the other in the first place? Why cannot we enjoy the miracle that both shows existed in the maelstrom of 1977 and embrace them both...hell, embrace the entire Fabulous Forum run of 1977!

For it would never be that way again.

[reswati]

Are you insinuating that there was a night where Bonzo's drums weren't like cannons?

Seriously, this is the bane of relying only on bootlegs for judging a concert, for ask anyone who saw Led Zeppelin: John Bonham's drums were ALWAYS like cannonballs to your gut.

Trying to decide between 6/21 and 6/23 is splitting hairs to the nth degree. I was going to do a song by song contrast like ListenToThis did, and mine might have even turned out similar. But no, I am just going to tell you how I felt after each concert was over.

When I came out of the Forum the night of June 21, 1977, I thought I had seen the concert of the year. When I came out of the Forum the night of June 23, 1977, I thought I had seen the concert of my life!!! In fact, I couldn't much think at all for my mind had been COMPLETELY BLOWN AWAY!!! Keith Fucking Moon had just shared the stage with Led Zeppelin!!!!

Now, all of you trainspotters, go ahead and do A<B comparisons between your bootlegs and parse away at all the details and specifics of the performance and bleed the life out of the magical aura of both those nights. Why does there have to be one over the other in the first place? Why cannot we enjoy the miracle that both shows existed in the first place and embrace them both...hell, embrace the entire Forum run of 1977!

For it would never be that way again.

[Nutrocker]

6/21 wins for me. From a technical standpoint I believe Eddie is superior; Badgeholders is a great show because of the tight but loose and laid back / jovial nature)

I'd tend to agree.

Why cannot we enjoy the miracle that both shows existed in the maelstrom of 1977 and embrace them both...hell, embrace the entire Fabulous Forum run of 1977!

But, as usual, Strider nails it.

And as for judging the gigs by the bootlegs, he's right there as well. Something tells me the LA '77 shows would not be held in such high esteem by the anoraks if Mike Millard had not been rolling tape on those nights. Look at the June 22 show...just as good as 6/21 or 6/23 but the recording is rough and so the gig seems like the red headed stepchild of the Forum gigs.

[godzilla777]

Never looked at it that way. I just wish I could of been there for one of the shows.

[Walter]

Are you insinuating that there was a night where Bonzo's drums weren't like cannons?

Seriously, this is the bane of relying only on bootlegs for judging a concert, for ask anyone who saw Led Zeppelin: John Bonham's drums were ALWAYS like cannonballs to your gut.

Trying to decide between 6/21 and 6/23 is splitting hairs to the nth degree. I was going to do a song by song contrast like ListenToThis did, and mine might have even turned out similar. But no, I am just going to tell you how I felt after each concert was over.

When I came out of the Forum the night of June 21, 1977, I thought I had seen the concert of the year. When I came out of the Forum the night of June 23, 1977, I thought I had seen the concert of my life!!! In fact, I couldn't much think at all for my mind had been COMPLETELY BLOWN AWAY!!! Keith Fucking Moon had just shared the stage with Led Zeppelin!!!!

Now, all of you trainspotters, go ahead and do A<B comparisons between your bootlegs and parse away at all the details and specifics of the performance and bleed the life out of the magical aura of both those nights. Why does there have to be one over the other in the first place? Why cannot we enjoy the miracle that both shows existed in the maelstrom of 1977 and embrace them both...hell, embrace the entire Fabulous Forum run of 1977!

For it would never be that way again.

I can't even imagine being at that 6/23....you really hit the point on the head. I don't enjoy that show as much, listening to them both - but as a spectacle, it must have been insane! In your opinion, does that show still go down as the greatest you've seen? I know you've been to about 1,000 shows - but your memories are still so vivid!

[chef free]

Silly mortals! You are both unqualified and unworthy of making such a decision!

[ListenToThis]

Silly mortals! You are both unqualified and unworthy of making such a decision!

^ This I like.

As for being there I was not yet born, so debating and discussing courtesy of the wonderful efforts of Mike is very worthwhile and I will always do so. I encourage those that were not there, the vast majority, to always feel free to offer your opinion - that's what makes the forum interesting.

[Sue Dounim]

Not to be a bitch, but this is the most pointless thread on the entire forum. When are people gonna realise that at the end of the day, no matter what statistics you throw around, or how good this song was played over that one, it all comes down to personal preference? I've heard people say 6/21 is the defining moment of Led Zeppelin's live career, and turned right around just to see someone else say it's just another "slopfest in the pile of crap that is Led Zeppelin 1977". It doesn't matter what anyone says, people have their individual opinions, and that's how it's always gonna be.

[ListenToThis]

Not to be a bitch, but this is the most pointless thread on the entire forum. When are people gonna realise that at the end of the day, no matter what statistics you throw around, or how good this song was played over that one, it all comes down to personal preference? I've heard people say 6/21 is the defining moment of Led Zeppelin's live career, and turned right around just to see someone else say it's just another "slopfest in the pile of crap that is Led Zeppelin 1977". It doesn't matter what anyone says, people have their individual opinions, and that's how it's always gonna be.

That's the point, for everyone to share their opinions. The entire concept of discussing Led Zeppelin is pointless by your definition, it no longer exists.

I miss when your posts were on topic, you were interesting to read.

[Sue Dounim]

But the topic of this thread is to come up with "which one is better?". All I'm saying is that there's just no way to determine something like that, that the tastes of the individual are too varied for any common consensus to be reached. I'm all for posting opinions, god knows I've done it enough times on here, but to decide between two shows that are so neck and neck in terms of excellence, for very different reasons, it just seems pointless to me.

That's the point, for everyone to share their opinions. The entire concept of discussing Led Zeppelin is pointless by your definition, it no longer exists.

I miss when your posts were on topic, you were interesting to read.

[badgeholder]

The 23rd! (Well, what did you think I was gonna say? )

[Strider]

Calm down, folks.

I never said you couldn't discuss or render judgment on the shows. I only said I would sit this one out and abstain from trying to pick one over the other.

I listen to boots and try to rank my favourite performances myself...it is a fun topic to discuss and argue. But trying to choose between 6/21 and 6/23 is too tough...that's all I was conveying.