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MLE

Rock Music

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If the record companies didn't want them being called 'Rock Stars' or Rockers, then they wouldn't endorse it, but they do. As for the ball of confusion, perhaps now you can see why my questions aren't so meaningless or irrelevant after all.

I only said "half" the questions were irrelevant. ;)

It comes down to whether you're using the term 'rock' in a strictly musical sense or socio-cultural manner? Rap is the new rock, if you're talking about culturally...as it is rap that gets the parents, the church, and the powers-that-be upset these days, much as rock and roll did in the 1950s and 1960s.

I'll answer in more detail later this weekend.

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Rap is the new rock, if you're talking about culturally...as it is rap that gets the parents, the church, and the powers-that-be upset these days, much as rock and roll did in the 1950s and 1960s.

Rap is the most annoying, monotonous, repetitious shit I've ever heard. The dimwits sample from other songs which just shows they can't come up with anything original unless it's some sort of 'beat.' I'm sorry but I've hated it ever since I heard that stupid 'Rapper's Delight' back in the 70's.

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If rap is rock, then I'm an astronaut. <_<

If rap is rock, then I've got junk between my legs. :lol:

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I only said "half" the questions were irrelevant. ;)

It comes down to whether you're using the term 'rock' in a strictly musical sense or socio-cultural manner? Rap is the new rock, if you're talking about culturally...as it is rap that gets the parents, the church, and the powers-that-be upset these days, much as rock and roll did in the 1950s and 1960s.

I'll answer in more detail later this weekend.

Clearly not in a musical sense, Strider.

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Rap is the most annoying, monotonous, repetitious shit I've ever heard. The dimwits sample from other songs which just shows they can't come up with anything original unless it's some sort of 'beat.' I'm sorry but I've hated it ever since I heard that stupid 'Rapper's Delight' back in the 70's.

I believe rap is actually Crap, but the 'c' fell off somewhere along the way! A mental midget can write a rap song, and often times they do!

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Does anybody have thoughts on this one...?

No comments on this video as of yet, but it I think it deserves a bump, so to speak. As Joe Walsh is one of the many architects of Rock Music, I feel what he has to say here is worthy of discussion.

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It's generational like it always is. When I played my Zeppelin, Floyd, Sabbath, etc in the 70's my parents hated it. When my parents played Bill Haley, Elvis, and Chuck Berry my grand parents hated it.

Sure, I am no big fan of most rap however some is pretty relevant (Public Enemy & NWA), some is god damned funny (2 Live Crew, Too Short, Afro-Man), and some is straight out good (Notorious BIG, Digital Underground).

I try not to judge since taste is subjective after all. The only stuff I have no use for is the mean, hateful shit and the stuff which is nothing but samples and bad rhymes.

So is rap the new rock? Insofar as it controls the music industry...yes.

Edited by Sagittarius Rising

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It's generational like it always is. When I played my Zeppelin, Floyd, Sabbath, etc in the 70's my parents hated it. When my parents played Bill Haley, Elvis, and Chuck Berry my grand parents hated it.

Sure, I am no big fan of most rap however some is pretty relevant (Public Enemy & NWA), some is god damned funny (2 Live Crew, Too Short, Afro-Man), and some is straight out good (Notorious BIG, Digital Underground).

I try not to judge since taste is subjective after all. The only stuff I have no use for is the mean, hateful shit and the stuff which is nothing but samples and bad rhymes.

So is rap the new rock? Insofar as it controls the music industry...yes.

Afro-Man! Yeah...:lol: "Pick out the seeds and stems..."

Does rap control the music industry, or does the music industry control it? Sounds like a ridiculous question, but it really isn't...

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No comments on this video as of yet, but it I think it deserves a bump, so to speak. As Joe Walsh is one of the many architects of Rock Music, I feel what he has to say here is worthy of discussion.

'There's no Mojo!'

Right on, Joe. :^)

My brother Bob flipping 'The Mojo' (MOJO is tattooed on his fingers). :^)

post-503-0-93927300-1380414083_thumb.jpg

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Seems we aren't the only ones discussing Pop vs Rock.

http://loudwire.com/pearl-jam-eddie-vedder-merits-high-fructose-pop-music/

“These pop songs almost feel like tabloid journalism,” said Vedder, cutting right to the point. “It’s crap that people seem to like and I don’t know if it has meaning. I don’t know if one of the pops songs of the summer has any fiber in it. People are consuming it, and is it healthy? I don’t know.”

This

Thanks Bayougal.

Edited by MLE

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'There's no Mojo!'

Right on, Joe. :^)

My brother Bob flipping 'The Mojo' (MOJO is tattooed on his fingers). :^)

Hey, it's Bob! Bob looks like a tough dude, lol. Thanks for sharing redrum.

Question: Can you define 'mojo'?

Edited by MLE

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Hey, it's Bob! Bob looks like a tough dude, lol. Thanks for sharing redrum.

Question: Can you define 'mojo'?

He was and did 20 years in the Navy. He also 'instructed' volunteers for a 'what if' POW camp. This was back in the early 70's. He met John McCain then and learned a lot about the communist torture techniques from him. They called him 'Comrade Animal' and he took me to the camp one time. It was an awful looking place for sure. I believe 'Mojo' is something people have or use like charm. He was always like that, using his charm on the ladies. He always wanted to give them the Mojo finger. :^)

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He was and did 20 years in the Navy. He also 'instructed' volunteers for a 'what if' POW camp. This was back in the early 70's. He met John McCain then and learned a lot about the communist torture techniques from him. They called him 'Comrade Animal' and he took me to the camp one time. It was an awful looking place for sure. I believe 'Mojo' is something people have or use like charm. He was always like that, using his charm on the ladies. He always wanted to give them the Mojo finger. :^)

Redrum: Your brother has similar traits to those of James Patrick Page. Magic Men.

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Rap is the most annoying, monotonous, repetitious shit I've ever heard.

That is word-for-word the exact criticism directed towards rock and roll from the older generation in the 1950s and '60s. What goes around comes around.

If rap is rock, then I've got junk between my legs.

:lol:

See, this is why I was leery to join in this discussion to begin with, except to answer specific questions from redrum, Sagittarius Rising, and others.

I had a feeling the ulterior end-game to these questions was just another "Let's bash the '80s and Rap and the music of today" continuum.

You're only proving to be as uptight and square to the kids of today as the parents of the 50s seemed to their kids.

Which is what rock and roll does throughout the decades: Separate the young from the old...the new and hip from the old-fashioned squares...the cool from the boring.

Edited by Strider

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So the person who started the thread has been banned now. I've tended to post only occasionally for quite some time now, and don't know what happened there. But anyway it's been an interesting discussion. As for Joe Walsh, I think he's way too negative in his assessment - some really good bands are still surfacing, and as for the overall musicianship (apart from techno, rap and all that) it may actually be better than it used to be, or more consistent. But technicality of playing in itself doesn't have much musical value, and it seems pretty clear to me that the period from ca. 1966-1976 was the golden age of Rock, something that really cannot be repeated. At the time a new musical space just opened up that people rushed into and experimented left and right ...

Let's take an example. Why do The Rolling Stones of old sound so genuine? Well, obviously they were a great band. Has anybody here watched the Charlie is my Darling DVD from Ireland in 1965? Watching it you really get a sense of the kind of force that hit people at the Marquee and later all over the world ... But the thing is, that their music retains all that power because what they did then became a defining part of rock. I already denied that there is a fixed definition. But the Stones - and Bob Dylan, The Who, The Beatles, Cream, Jimi Hendrix, etc. - as they rushed into the open field that was becoming Rock music, turning this way and that way, even as they were copying their heroes, did clarify the nature of that space as they made that space. It could have been a different band with a different sound, you know. After 1966 Rock was no longer American, but defined by a movement that existed on both sides of the Atlantic. The Stones sound authentic to us because what they did, as part of that movement, is now part of what we actually mean when we say that something is real Rock & Roll.

People who come later have all this legacy already in place, so the space has narrowed down, and if they do something completely different they risk sounding like something else, not Rock music at all. And nobody really believes any longer that their music is addressing everybody in the sense I talked about before. Instead the originality may consist in the blending together of influences from Ultravox and Black Sabbath, mixing different types of metal, or indeed, rap and rock (now we all remember that!), and so on. The musicians become a part of a more closely defined scene, a certain part of the market, etc. Albums like OK Computer may still come out - but they come at long intervals now. In the decade after 1966 it was happening all the time - defining moments, precisely.

Strider, you seem rather critical of Woodstock. I think John Philipps said that it was already not a real hippie festival, and much more of a commercial thing - of course, if you accept that, his own achievement at Monterey two years earlier will stand out even more! But what would be the grounds for that criticism? After all, in many ways it was justifiably seen as a great success, not in business terms, but in terms of the scale of the event, because it became so huge and still remained peaceful. Of course, some of the musical moments are beyond description.

Edited by Otto Masson

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That is word-for-word the exact criticism directed towards rock and roll from the older generation in the 1950s and '60s. What goes around comes around.

See, this is why I was leery to join in this discussion to begin with, except to answer specific questions from redrum, Sagittarius Rising, and others.

I had a feeling the ulterior end-game to these questions was just another "Let's bash the '80s and Rap and the music of today" continuum.

You're only proving to be as uptight and square to the kids of today as the parents of the 50s seemed to their kids.

Which is what rock and roll does throughout the decades: Separate the young from the old...the new and hip from the old-fashioned squares...the cool from the boring.

Personally, I think you're wrong. My Mother loved some rock 'n roll AND soul music and she was born in 1910. I'm sure she would also have hated rap. I believe rap is as irritating to many youngsters AND older folks. Being uptight has nothing to do with it. It's a different animal that caters to a certain mindset and I have been waiting forever for it to die, just like disco.

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Personally, I think you're wrong. My Mother loved some rock 'n roll AND soul music and she was born in 1910. I'm sure she would also have hated rap. I believe rap is as irritating to many youngsters AND older folks. Being uptight has nothing to do with it. It's a different animal that caters to a certain mindset and I have been waiting forever for it to die, just like disco.

Redrum, you and I both know that your Mother was the exception not the rule in the 1950s. I am not saying there isn't terrible rap music...there is a ton of crap out there, mostly in the mainstream. But 90% of everything is mostly mediocre these days.

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Redrum, you and I both know that your Mother was the exception not the rule in the 1950s. I am not saying there isn't terrible rap music...there is a ton of crap out there, mostly in the mainstream. But 90% of everything is mostly mediocre these days.

Agreed on the first point. But there isn't a single rap 'song' I've heard that I could ever like and I'm not saying that due to racism or anything like that because I also love soul and blues and a smattering of jazz. It's hard to describe how it affects me, but I know for a fact that I would never like it in a million years. It truly grates on me.

I'd say 90% is a good number to use on stuff out there these days. One of the 10% in my opinion is when I saw Jack White on Austin City Limits the other night and I think he put on a great show.

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it was the pelvis, that lead me astray..... :angel:

Isn't that special? :^)

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