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I prefer TSRTS 1987 CD release


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Abysmal editing I can handle. Robert's cracking voice I can handle. Removing the excellent second guitar solo in Celebration Day I can't handle. Tampering with Dazed and Confused by adding lacklustre parts Jimmy originally removed I can't handle. I like the original soundtrack.

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It's all subjective -- you aren't alone. I prefer improved editing and (overall) impeccable sound to what the original album offered. The Garden Tapes is your friend in elucidating (and subjectively evaluating) the differences in the three (occasionally four) versions of TSRTS.

I wouldn't refer to the sections added to "Dazed" as lackluster, but I would criticize the revised TSRTS for the timing-errors introduced into that song.

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I'll agree that the original sounds better because of the way it was mastered. However, If not for the edit in "No Quarter" I'd favor the remaster 100%. Having the (nearly) complete show in consistent quality is the deciding factor.

My main complaints with the remaster are the added echo/constant crowd noise and the modern day mastering. No reason to push it to 0db and limit/compress the hell out of it.

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Ways the original 1976 vinyl release is superior to the 2007 Remaster.

1. Celebration Day

2. No Quarter

3. The Song Remains the Same

4. Dazed and Confused

5. Whole Lotta Love

6. The crowd/background noise isn't overbearing.

Ways the 2007 Remaster is better than the 1976 release:

1. Misty Mountain Hop/Since I've Been Loving You

2. The Ocean

3. Heartbreaker

4. Improvement in the sound, especially the bass and drums. Albeit at the expense of some naturalness.

The 1976 version wins 6-4.

Other reasons the 2007 Remaster gets demerits...the shocking butchering of "Black Dog", "No Quarter", "Whole Lotta Love", "Dazed and Confused", and "Celebration Day" makes me cringe to this day. The lack of "Communication Breakdown" and "Thank You" is also a minus.

I listen to my 1976 original TSRTS almost exclusively now. I only put on the Remaster when I want to hear The Ocean and Misty Mountain Hop and SIBLY...and then, it's usually the dvd not the cd.

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I agree with this assessment. Celebration Day is so amazing on the original version, I can't believe it wasn't left intact. Same with the others you mentioned, Strider. Plus it just blows how Jimmy always cuts out the "Plantations" from every live show they officially release!

Ways the original 1976 vinyl release is superior to the 2007 Remaster.

1. Celebration Day
2. No Quarter
3. The Song Remains the Same
4. Dazed and Confused
5. Whole Lotta Love
6. The crowd/background noise isn't overbearing.

Ways the 2007 Remaster is better than the 1976 release:

1. Misty Mountain Hop/Since I've Been Loving You
2. The Ocean
3. Heartbreaker
4. Improvement in the sound, especially the bass and drums. Albeit at the expense of some naturalness.

The 1976 version wins 6-4.

Other reasons the 2007 Remaster gets demerits...the shocking butchering of "Black Dog", "No Quarter", "Whole Lotta Love", "Dazed and Confused", and "Celebration Day" makes me cringe to this day. The lack of "Communication Breakdown" and "Thank You" is also a minus.

I listen to my 1976 original TSRTS almost exclusively now. I only put on the Remaster when I want to hear The Ocean and Misty Mountain Hop and SIBLY...and then, it's usually the dvd not the cd.

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I agree with this assessment. Celebration Day is so amazing on the original version, I can't believe it wasn't left intact. Same with the others you mentioned, Strider. Plus it just blows how Jimmy always cuts out the "Plantations" from every live show they officially release!

Haha, don't get me started...this has been a major bone of contention with me from the beginning.

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  • 1 year later...

The remaster sounds sonically superb. Much better than the original. The additional tracks are more than welcome.

However, no quarter editing is an absolute crime, and changing LPs in the middle of dazed is silly.

On mp3 I'll listen to the new one, on vinyl I go for the old one.

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I almost exclusively listen to the Heywood version... :angel:

Same here, also when I printed off the cover art I inverted from black to white, did that ages ago long before the the companion discs had their cover art inverted from the originals.

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Give me the 76' version any day.

Ps. What is the Heywood version?

below is the text document that came with the torrent .

This is the second version of this I've created, due to discovery of a few new pieces that I didn't include the first time around.
I decided to do this because I am not at all happy with the way the 2007 remastered version of this album was put together. Sure they fixed some bad notes, and did a lot of work editing Robert's vocals together from the three shows to sound as good as possible, but the music was remastered for the film, and mostly edited to fit around the available footage. The same versions of the song used for the film were used for the album, as if the CD were an afterthought. This left some songs considerably shorter than the versions we are used to from the original album version (No Quarter and Whole Lotta Love), and other songs are from different performances altogether. The first few verses of Stairway, for example, are from an inferior show with an out of tune mellotron than the one used on the original CD, and the brilliant guitar solo in Celebration Day was lost due to that song being taken from a different show (or at least that part of it). Some songs had dropped beats and other timing anomalies that I found unacceptable. Some particularly bad editing, especially in Moby Dick, left me wanting better out of this album.
Although this has been attempted before by CMI Music, I still wasn't happy with that version, as the bad editing and cuts in the versions used survived his efforts to compile it. So, using The Garden Tapes site as a guide, I decided to take all the different official versions of the MSG shows and put together The Song Remains The Same as it should be, not as a quickie throwtogether release that mimics the film version. Sources used for this are the original CD version, the original DVD release of the movie (AC3 stream), the 2007 DVD (PCM stream) and CD releases, the Led Zeppelin DVD MSG section (PCM stream) and a fan edit called The Strongest Edition. Due to different mixes in the sources it was quite hard to make all of it match up. I had to change the panning of the channels to different widths and judiciously EQ all versions to a semblance of uniformity, but differences in the individual characteristics of the tracks they used (the snare drum sounds different on the original and 2007 releases, and it is panned more to the left on the original CD) left it so some of the edits may still be noticeable, especially in Moby Dick. I hope this is forgiveable in light of the greater accuracy of the project as a whole. I've used audience noise from parts of the 2007 CD as a way of covering the crossfades and dialogue composites and creating the encore break.
The previously mentioned Strongest Edition was a decent attempt at doing what I have done here by combining the released versions of the original CD and film with some bootleg soundboard recordings, but it used versions of the songs with bad or unnecessary editing in them, and a couple tracks sounded awful. A lot of dialogue was provided by this set, but I edited a good deal of it out. Plant likes to babble a lot about things that only he understands, and I didn't want to clutter this up with too much of that.
Here's what I did and the sources used:
1. Rock And Roll - the longer fade in is from the 2007 DVD, the song is from the 2007 CD, but the first break ("lonely, lonely, lonely, lonely, lonely time) is cut in from the original CD in order to circumvent a bad drum overdub on the 2007 CD (go ahead listen to it. the drums double up during the last couple words and do things that they couldn't do)
2. Celebration Day - taken from the original CD so as to keep the proper guitar solo.
03. Black Dog - the segue into this is from the 2007 CD, but the majority of the song is from the LZ DVD, because the 2007 version is edited
4. Over The Hills And Far Away - the dialogue intro is from the 2007 DVD and the song is from the 2007 CD
5. Misty Mountain Hop - The dialogue is from the Strongest Edition CD. The first few bars before the guitar comes in are from the LZ DVD because I felt the audience fade into the clapping was done better. From where the guitar comes in its the 2007 CD.
6. Since I've Been Loving You - all is from the 2007 CD, except a patch from the LZ DVD to make up for a lost beat at 1:56
7. No Quarter - The intro is edited from the a much longer speech on the Strongest Edition and the song is entirely taken from the original CD. I could not accept the missing minute and a half on the 2007 version
8. The Song Remains The Same - the dialogue intro is a mix of the original CD, the strongest edition, and the 2007 CD (all from dofferent shows), but the song is all from the original CD
9. The Rain Song - All from the original CD
10. Dazed & Confused - Dialogue intro from the Strongest Edition, music from the 2007 CD. Although The garden Tapes points out two timing glitches in the song, I found them forgiveable, and chose this version (made up from two shows) over the original because some of the sloppy playing was left intact (such as Bonzo not being ready for the Achilles section) that was repaired on the original CD. I prefer my Zeppelin sloppy, because that's how they really were. The only thing I altered is the section just before the Achilles part, because the piece used on the 2007 CD is different than the one I am used to. There is a very obvious splice where the guitar sound changes tone and placement in the middle of a solo, and this solo suddenly goes where it didn't used to. I put back the correct ending of the solo from the original CD, then cut back to the 2007 CD for the Achilles part.
11. Stairway To Heaven - the beginning couple verses are from the original CD, but we switch to the 2007 version when the guitar switches to the 12 string. I replaced a couple of vocal lines that were removed on the 2007 mix by pasting snips from the original CD over the new one.
12. Moby Dick - This is the most heavily edited track of the set. The version used on the original CD was entirely from the second show on the 28th. The film version was primarily from the 27th, with pieces of the 28th thrown in, but usually different pieces than on the original CD. Both versions suffer from some terrible editing, with blatant splices appearing on the original, and although the drum edits are better on the 2007 version, the audience sometimes just cuts in out of nowhere. I smoothed out some of the bad edits, and added audience of my own to smooth over those sudden appearances. I cut the two solos together in a way that I hope approximates the way they could have been played. Some of the edits may be a bit noticeable because of the difference in the mixes of the two sources. I did what I could to even out the EQ and panning, even added some reverb here and there to smooth the ambience, but the overall sound of the two recordings differed greatly. Forgive any obvious flaws, please. There are still a couple of very obvious splices in it where I switched parts, but I couldn't avoid it due to the vast difference in the sound of the two sources. But I made a better solo out of it. The version on the 2007 CD is 10:40 from first to last note, while the one on the original CD is 12:23. The final version assembled for this CD is 17:38, a gain of over five minutes of drum solo from any released version. This is still much shorter than the actual solo was at any of these shows (the 28th solo used for the original album was over 27 minutes), but this is a vast improvement and comes a lot closer than anything we've heard before. The intro dialogue is composited from the Strongest Edition and the 2007 CD, and at the end is a hybrid of the 2007 CD and the original DVD. [in case anyone is wondering the edits from show to show are at 1:23, 2:01, 2:50, 3:55, 7:04, 8:07, 10:48, 12:29, 13:39, and 15:26]
13. Heartbreaker - From the 2007 CD
14. Whole Lotta Love - The majority of the song is from the 2007 CD, but the missing Crunge section is patched from two sources. The first is the 2007 DVD menu, and the second is from the original CD. THere are also two sections in the jam before the theramin section and in the theramin section itself that are taken from the same DVD menus. The bulk of this song was recorded on the 27th, but those sections on the menus are from the 28th...and never before released on either the album or the film.
15. The Ocean - The intro is from the Strongest Edition and the music is from the 2007 CD, returned to its proper place in the set, as the encore
16 & 17. Organ Solo/Thank You - the biggest contribution of the Strongest Edition CD, this is the extra encore from the last show on the 29th. This is sourced from a mono soundboard tape, and sounds quite different from the rest of the album. I EQd it judiciously and used stereo simulation software to make it not be mono, plus I added some reverb to get the ambience more like the album. I took all the frequencies below 250hz and monoed them out so the stereo simulator didn't affect the low end. There's no bass on this song, so the lows are a bit weak, except for a hugely booming bass drum that I tried my best to level out. I had to raise the high end also, and because of that this is a bit more hissy than the rest of the album, but I couldn't resist the opportunity to add this song to the setlist.
I Hope everyone who is a fan of this album/film/concert likes what I've done here. All editing was done with Adobe Audition 3.0. Restoring the clipping on the 2007 versions was done with a nice little plugin called Relife. SBE and flac 8 compressing with TLH. Enjoy
--}{eywood
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  • 1 year later...
On 04/11/2014 at 10:54 AM, juxtiphi said:

below is the text document that came with the torrent .

 

This is the second version of this I've created, due to discovery of a few new pieces that I didn't include the first time around.
 
I decided to do this because I am not at all happy with the way the 2007 remastered version of this album was put together. Sure they fixed some bad notes, and did a lot of work editing Robert's vocals together from the three shows to sound as good as possible, but the music was remastered for the film, and mostly edited to fit around the available footage. The same versions of the song used for the film were used for the album, as if the CD were an afterthought. This left some songs considerably shorter than the versions we are used to from the original album version (No Quarter and Whole Lotta Love), and other songs are from different performances altogether. The first few verses of Stairway, for example, are from an inferior show with an out of tune mellotron than the one used on the original CD, and the brilliant guitar solo in Celebration Day was lost due to that song being taken from a different show (or at least that part of it). Some songs had dropped beats and other timing anomalies that I found unacceptable. Some particularly bad editing, especially in Moby Dick, left me wanting better out of this album.
 
Although this has been attempted before by CMI Music, I still wasn't happy with that version, as the bad editing and cuts in the versions used survived his efforts to compile it. So, using The Garden Tapes site as a guide, I decided to take all the different official versions of the MSG shows and put together The Song Remains The Same as it should be, not as a quickie throwtogether release that mimics the film version. Sources used for this are the original CD version, the original DVD release of the movie (AC3 stream), the 2007 DVD (PCM stream) and CD releases, the Led Zeppelin DVD MSG section (PCM stream) and a fan edit called The Strongest Edition. Due to different mixes in the sources it was quite hard to make all of it match up. I had to change the panning of the channels to different widths and judiciously EQ all versions to a semblance of uniformity, but differences in the individual characteristics of the tracks they used (the snare drum sounds different on the original and 2007 releases, and it is panned more to the left on the original CD) left it so some of the edits may still be noticeable, especially in Moby Dick. I hope this is forgiveable in light of the greater accuracy of the project as a whole. I've used audience noise from parts of the 2007 CD as a way of covering the crossfades and dialogue composites and creating the encore break.
 
The previously mentioned Strongest Edition was a decent attempt at doing what I have done here by combining the released versions of the original CD and film with some bootleg soundboard recordings, but it used versions of the songs with bad or unnecessary editing in them, and a couple tracks sounded awful. A lot of dialogue was provided by this set, but I edited a good deal of it out. Plant likes to babble a lot about things that only he understands, and I didn't want to clutter this up with too much of that.
 
Here's what I did and the sources used:
 
1. Rock And Roll - the longer fade in is from the 2007 DVD, the song is from the 2007 CD, but the first break ("lonely, lonely, lonely, lonely, lonely time) is cut in from the original CD in order to circumvent a bad drum overdub on the 2007 CD (go ahead listen to it. the drums double up during the last couple words and do things that they couldn't do)
 
2. Celebration Day - taken from the original CD so as to keep the proper guitar solo.
 
03. Black Dog - the segue into this is from the 2007 CD, but the majority of the song is from the LZ DVD, because the 2007 version is edited
 
4. Over The Hills And Far Away - the dialogue intro is from the 2007 DVD and the song is from the 2007 CD
 
5. Misty Mountain Hop - The dialogue is from the Strongest Edition CD. The first few bars before the guitar comes in are from the LZ DVD because I felt the audience fade into the clapping was done better. From where the guitar comes in its the 2007 CD.
 
6. Since I've Been Loving You - all is from the 2007 CD, except a patch from the LZ DVD to make up for a lost beat at 1:56
 
7. No Quarter - The intro is edited from the a much longer speech on the Strongest Edition and the song is entirely taken from the original CD. I could not accept the missing minute and a half on the 2007 version
 
8. The Song Remains The Same - the dialogue intro is a mix of the original CD, the strongest edition, and the 2007 CD (all from dofferent shows), but the song is all from the original CD
 
9. The Rain Song - All from the original CD
 
10. Dazed & Confused - Dialogue intro from the Strongest Edition, music from the 2007 CD. Although The garden Tapes points out two timing glitches in the song, I found them forgiveable, and chose this version (made up from two shows) over the original because some of the sloppy playing was left intact (such as Bonzo not being ready for the Achilles section) that was repaired on the original CD. I prefer my Zeppelin sloppy, because that's how they really were. The only thing I altered is the section just before the Achilles part, because the piece used on the 2007 CD is different than the one I am used to. There is a very obvious splice where the guitar sound changes tone and placement in the middle of a solo, and this solo suddenly goes where it didn't used to. I put back the correct ending of the solo from the original CD, then cut back to the 2007 CD for the Achilles part.
 
11. Stairway To Heaven - the beginning couple verses are from the original CD, but we switch to the 2007 version when the guitar switches to the 12 string. I replaced a couple of vocal lines that were removed on the 2007 mix by pasting snips from the original CD over the new one.
 
12. Moby Dick - This is the most heavily edited track of the set. The version used on the original CD was entirely from the second show on the 28th. The film version was primarily from the 27th, with pieces of the 28th thrown in, but usually different pieces than on the original CD. Both versions suffer from some terrible editing, with blatant splices appearing on the original, and although the drum edits are better on the 2007 version, the audience sometimes just cuts in out of nowhere. I smoothed out some of the bad edits, and added audience of my own to smooth over those sudden appearances. I cut the two solos together in a way that I hope approximates the way they could have been played. Some of the edits may be a bit noticeable because of the difference in the mixes of the two sources. I did what I could to even out the EQ and panning, even added some reverb here and there to smooth the ambience, but the overall sound of the two recordings differed greatly. Forgive any obvious flaws, please. There are still a couple of very obvious splices in it where I switched parts, but I couldn't avoid it due to the vast difference in the sound of the two sources. But I made a better solo out of it. The version on the 2007 CD is 10:40 from first to last note, while the one on the original CD is 12:23. The final version assembled for this CD is 17:38, a gain of over five minutes of drum solo from any released version. This is still much shorter than the actual solo was at any of these shows (the 28th solo used for the original album was over 27 minutes), but this is a vast improvement and comes a lot closer than anything we've heard before. The intro dialogue is composited from the Strongest Edition and the 2007 CD, and at the end is a hybrid of the 2007 CD and the original DVD. [in case anyone is wondering the edits from show to show are at 1:23, 2:01, 2:50, 3:55, 7:04, 8:07, 10:48, 12:29, 13:39, and 15:26]
 
13. Heartbreaker - From the 2007 CD
 
14. Whole Lotta Love - The majority of the song is from the 2007 CD, but the missing Crunge section is patched from two sources. The first is the 2007 DVD menu, and the second is from the original CD. THere are also two sections in the jam before the theramin section and in the theramin section itself that are taken from the same DVD menus. The bulk of this song was recorded on the 27th, but those sections on the menus are from the 28th...and never before released on either the album or the film.
 
15. The Ocean - The intro is from the Strongest Edition and the music is from the 2007 CD, returned to its proper place in the set, as the encore
 
16 & 17. Organ Solo/Thank You - the biggest contribution of the Strongest Edition CD, this is the extra encore from the last show on the 29th. This is sourced from a mono soundboard tape, and sounds quite different from the rest of the album. I EQd it judiciously and used stereo simulation software to make it not be mono, plus I added some reverb to get the ambience more like the album. I took all the frequencies below 250hz and monoed them out so the stereo simulator didn't affect the low end. There's no bass on this song, so the lows are a bit weak, except for a hugely booming bass drum that I tried my best to level out. I had to raise the high end also, and because of that this is a bit more hissy than the rest of the album, but I couldn't resist the opportunity to add this song to the setlist.
 
 
I Hope everyone who is a fan of this album/film/concert likes what I've done here. All editing was done with Adobe Audition 3.0. Restoring the clipping on the 2007 versions was done with a nice little plugin called Relife. SBE and flac 8 compressing with TLH. Enjoy
 
 
--}{eywood

Hi mate, do you have this, cos if bloody love to hear it.

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  • 10 months later...

I got the Heywood version, but I don't think I've ever actually listened to it. I made my own version with Dazed, No Quarter and Celebration Day (and maybe another, not quite sure) from the original and the rest from the 2007 version. I boosted the volume on the original tracks a bit so they match the 2007 versions better. One of these days I'll actually listen to the Heywood one, but I always preferred the original Dazed and Confused because that's what I'm used to hearing, so any of the more complete versions just sound wrong to me.

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On 9/20/2013 at 2:46 AM, Strider said:

I listen to my 1976 original TSRTS almost exclusively now. I only put on the Remaster when I want to hear The Ocean and Misty Mountain Hop and SIBLY...and then, it's usually the dvd not the cd.

I'd add OTHAFA to that list for Remaster listening.

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12 hours ago, Balthazor said:

I got the Heywood version, but I don't think I've ever actually listened to it. I made my own version with Dazed, No Quarter and Celebration Day (and maybe another, not quite sure) from the original and the rest from the 2007 version. I boosted the volume on the original tracks a bit so they match the 2007 versions better. One of these days I'll actually listen to the Heywood one, but I always preferred the original Dazed and Confused because that's what I'm used to hearing, so any of the more complete versions just sound wrong to me.

On an epic piece like D&C, once you get that grooved in, then there's no room for "Improvement".

Didn't Jimmy have to go by guidelines from the film maker, in order to get the permission to add segments not included previously, that stipulation being that all audio soundtracks "had to match" what was with the film parts used, or, something like that. Why a filmmaker is so pissy about it is beyond me.

BTY, I hate all of the LSD special effects. Where is the Camera angle option of just the film without the effects??? Better yet, a camera angle option of just the whole stage view from the audience.... Ahhh, but it's way too late for that!

 

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