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Honeydripper

02 related question for the older fans that were'nt there

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For those of us that have had a neverending thirst for live Zep for decades.....and have collected/heard countless recordings of Zeppelin in their prime....even finding brilliance on an off night........

After many listens of the 02 gig....from multiple sources.....I asked myself this question.

let's say you erase your memory of all the live Zep you have ever heard......including the official releases.....and the only live Zep you have ever heard was the 02 show.

Question: Would you have spent decades of your life dedicated to loving this band based only on the 02 performance?? I'm starting to lean towards no. :(

I know it's not popular right now to say this....and I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but IMO the 02 show was a "you had to be there" moment. I myself would have loved to have been there. But I'm not going to back down to anybody that says that show is even remotely close to a 70's show(not that I ever expected it to be) and I know that alot of the glorification of it has to do with the impact of 27 yrs off. To me the only thing worth talking about is the difference JPJ and Jason on a better sounding kit than his past kits made. This gig was like a 98 P&P show w/ BALLS. But the things that drew me to love live Led Zeppelin were no where to be found. The improvs, the lightning playing by Page, the interaction w/ Plant-Page.......it just seemed too reheased and subdued. No one can expect these old dudes to recreate what they did in their 20's....and the times have definitely changed......but to say they are much more than a shell of their former self would be pushing it IMO. The spectacle of the circumstances of the whole 02 show, the cool video screen treatment, the lighting, the screaming fans all leads to quite an exiting night.....but take that away and let the music do the talking, taking yourself away from the thoughts of what it must have been like to have witnessed it...just focusing on the musical performance itself......and halfway through, I find myself digging out a Japan 71 boot to go back to the reason why I've loved this band for so long.

What say you??

Edited by Honeydripper

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I agree. It would've been incredible to have been there and witness this. The audience recordings couldn't possibly portray the atmosphere. But there's definitely a lot missing that was there 30 years ago. Energy, passion, youth, etc..

What I've always liked about Led Zeppelin is what they could do on a stage with two to three hours and only four instruments. There's no way I could ever expect them to even get close to 1980 status again.

Personally, I wouldn't be too upset if they didn't tour. I'm not saying I wouldn't see them if they did (I've been crossing my fingers for five years), but I wouldn't be too disappointed if they didn't.

They don't even need to tour in my eyes... I think it's well know they've already proved their magnitude and greatness... All I want out of the band now is for Page to release some more shows from the vault B)

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I agree 1000 percent.

Yes a AMAZING FUN night for those lucky enough to be there.

But jeeeeeeezez...

NO where

and I mean

NO where near even in the same GALAXY as what the REAL LED ZEPPELIN were.

And I am so tired of all the fan(boys and gals) cutting them all this ridiculous

SLACK because of their AGE.

THEY ARE not invalids, (tho JP plays like it sometimes.)

THERE has got to be MILLIONS of working musicians on this whole stinking planet (of what 6 BILLION PEOPLE) older than PAGE and Plant and still PLAYING and Singing and working their craft as well as EVER.

With the exception of JPJ and Jason...

Robert and Jimmy today would not "make the cut" at an audition for a Zeppelin TRIBUTE band! Now what does that say about their abilities?

Think about it..if you went to a ZEP TRIBUTE band and the guitar player played the STH

NOTE FOR NOTE the way Jimmy played it at the 02 you would have him CRUCIFIED.

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When it comes to Plant, age does have to do with it....being that no one sounds like they do when they were 19 when they are 60. And Page has had problems w/ his hands before.....

but when I go see Jeff Beck nowadays I always come away with the fact that he is better today than he was 30 yrs ago. More inventive,creative, and technically brilliant. And I always ponder on dreams of wishing Page had followed suit.

There are plenty of musicians Page's age still playing brilliant. Beck, Gilmoure, etc.. Hell, my dad took me to see Eubie Blake at the Kennedy Center who performed brilliantly at the spry age of 100!!! :o

JPJ certainly did'nt lose any mustard. He was what made 02 special. P&P were .........ordinary and predictable to say the least. Jason, he did his pop proud.

Edited by Honeydripper

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My post is short:

Led Zeppelin (1969-1980) were the band of the millenium.

So it is impossible to compare them with any other band even Led Zeppelin 2007. :unsure:

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That may well be one of the most ridiculous statements ever made.

in 100 years there has NEVER been ANY band is "good" as Led Zeppelin

jeeezuz f•kingcrist

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For those of us that have had a neverending thirst for live Zep for decades.....and have collected/heard countless recordings of Zeppelin in their prime....even finding brilliance on an off night........

After many listens of the 02 gig....from multiple sources.....I asked myself this question.

let's say you erase your memory of all the live Zep you have ever heard......including the official releases.....and the only live Zep you have ever heard was the 02 show.

Question: Would you have spent decades of your life dedicated to loving this band based only on the 02 performance?? I'm starting to lean towards no. :(

I know it's not popular right now to say this....and I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but IMO the 02 show was a "you had to be there" moment. I myself would have loved to have been there. But I'm not going to back down to anybody that says that show is even remotely close to a 70's show(not that I ever expected it to be) and I know that alot of the glorification of it has to do with the impact of 27 yrs off. To me the only thing worth talking about is the difference JPJ and Jason on a better sounding kit than his past kits made. This gig was like a 98 P&P show w/ BALLS. But the things that drew me to love live Led Zeppelin were no where to be found. The improvs, the lightning playing by Page, the interaction w/ Plant-Page.......it just seemed too reheased and subdued. No one can expect these old dudes to recreate what they did in their 20's....and the times have definitely changed......but to say they are much more than a shell of their former self would be pushing it IMO. The spectacle of the circumstances of the whole 02 show, the cool video screen treatment, the lighting, the screaming fans all leads to quite an exiting night.....but take that away and let the music do the talking, taking yourself away from the thoughts of what it must have been like to have witnessed it...just focusing on the musical performance itself......and halfway through, I find myself digging out a Japan 71 boot to go back to the reason why I've loved this band for so long.

What say you??

I say you're a brave soul. :beer:

I don't have experiences with boots but I was at quite a few Zep concerts '71-'75 so I will answer your question from that perspective. I am not an audiophile so I can only answer in terms of my experiences as a lifelong Zep fan.

I was also really compelled to respond because I have been thinking about the same question this week. What rattled me was that you wrote:

let's say you erase your memory of all the live Zep you have ever heard......including the official releases.....and the only live Zep you have ever heard was the 02 show.

That is very similar to what I have written to other people and how I have rationalized not being able to get tickets to the O2 gig. What I have written to others was "What if I was able to get tickets to the O2 but the price of those tickets was to have all of my Zep memories erased?"

To your question:

Would you have spent decades of your life dedicated to loving this band based only on the 02 performance?? I'm starting to lean towards no. :(

My simple answer is "no" - but that is my opinion is based upon my own youthful Zep experiences. For one, they changed my life. I can't imagine that happening to a mid-life fan at the 02. I am one who really believed (still believes?), that back in the day, Jimmy worked magick on stage. Zep's power and energy and youthfulness - and, yes, the craziness (madness?) of the scene that surrounded it all - were phenomenal. There was an amazing chemistry between the younger Zep and their young fans. The 70's were an incredible time - we were all pushing boundaries and transgressing - and I think that is part of what fueled their energy and left us all with expectation that something magical and transcendent could and did occur.

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Great reply Mad ;) I share your sentiments. Jimmy did work magick back in the day. He was in a zone he has not found since. Back then the guitar was an appendage that kind of played itself without much thought as he was playing...it just sort of happened. Many players at that level have mentioned that zone.....it's a special thing, that's for sure. Zep as a band was taking a leap of faith on a nightly basis, having only an outline of what they wanted to do, but the details would be spontaneous. Sadly, those days are long gone. There's a reason why descriptions/titles linked with Zep are things like Tight But Loose, Tangents Within a Framework, etc.... The 02 gig was tight, not loose, there was a framework, but lacked tangents. It's just not the same thing....not even close.

"If" they do play more dates (which I doubt...and would be content if they did'nt), I'll be first to admit that I might quit my job, drain my savings, and follow their itinerary, but I'll be damn I'll ever say it's the Real McCoy. :(

And If I find one kiddie fanboy yelling "We Want Zep" at any of the Plant-Krauss gigs, I'll gladly duct tape your mugshot shut myself!!! :P:lol:

Edited by Honeydripper

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"If" they do play more dates...I'll be damn I'll ever say it's the Real McCoy. :(

At worst an approximation, at best an evolution.

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At worst an approximation, at best an evolution.

Main Entry: evo·lu·tion

Pronunciation: \ˌe-və-ˈlü-shən, ˌē-və-\

Function: noun

Etymology: Latin evolution-, evolutio unrolling, from evolvere

Date: 1622

1: one of a set of prescribed movements

2 a: a process of change in a certain direction : unfolding b: the action or an instance of forming and giving something off : emission c (1): a process of continuous change from a lower, simpler, or worse to a higher, more complex, or better state : growth (2): a process of gradual and relatively peaceful social, political, and economic advance d: something evolved

3: the process of working out or developing

not too sure of your use of the word evolution Steve as it's more often than not used to describe things that advance. I'd even be willing to swop the words "at best" and "at worst" in your post. <_<

And what I'd really like to know from you is the answer to my main first question. ;)

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Great reply Mad ;) I share your sentiments. Jimmy did work magick back in the day. He was in a zone he has not found since. Back then the guitar was an appendage that kind of played itself without much thought as he was playing...it just sort of happened. Many players at that level have mentioned that zone.....it's a special thing, that's for sure. Zep as a band was taking a leap of faith on a nightly basis, having only an outline of what they wanted to do, but the details would be spontaneous. Sadly, those days are long gone. There's a reason why descriptions/titles linked with Zep are things like Tight But Loose, Tangents Within a Framework, etc.... The 02 gig was tight, not loose, there was a framework, but lacked tangents. It's just not the same thing....not even close.

"If" they do play more dates (which I doubt...and would be content if they did'nt), I'll be first to admit that I might quit my job, drain my savings, and follow their itinerary, but I'll be damn I'll ever say it's the Real McCoy. :(

And If I find one kiddie fanboy yelling "We Want Zep" at any of the Plant-Krauss gigs, I'll gladly duct tape your mugshot shut myself!!! :P:lol:

Thanks, Honeydripper. ;) I love your response to it - especially the part about the "leap of faith" and the spontaneity.

I appreciate your asking the question because it made me think. I have been listening to Zep since I was ten years old but it is only recently that I have started to conjure up my memories of the Zep years and the places, events, experiences, and emotions of those days - what it all was and what it all means to me now.

Well, if they play more dates, my husband and I plan to do just what you have in mind. For me, it certainly won't be the Zep of old, but it will be bittersweet.

Oh, poor Plant and Krauss!

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Good points, and of course you're right-- they're not what they were, and I doubt anyone expected them to be. I've loved what I've seen and heard of the reunion--but it's definitely more for the nostalgia factor than the actual merits of the performance (which WAS good--but ....)

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Certainly cant argue as a lifelong fan who saw them on the same night you did 30 yrs ago. But I think that we must reserve some judgement, especailly on Jimmy Page who after all had a bum finger. As for Robert, thats another thing, but I still believe that it is only one night. And you cant judge a band or a sports team or an individual entirely on one performance. So I dont think we can sit here and say that they could never have the magic again like in the 70s. There were songs that were done very well and I believe that if they put more time into it and played more concerts you would get some very memorable ones. After all, we are talking about legends here that are great musicians in every sense. We arent talking about the Stones who rely on Jagger period. We must give them the benefit of the doubt so to speak. Dont we at least owe them that? I hope they do play again. And I believe they will.

Good points--and you're right on reserving some judgement. But I still think that, while I would love to see them again, I just wouldn't expect them to be what they were then. It's just not going to happen. They'll be good, and do things that'll make us all proud of them, but there's a different magic you can make when you're 28 than when you're 60. And no one is more aware of this than Robert Plant....which is why he will opt out of any Zep tour. A couple shows here or there aren't out of the question, I think, but I just don't believe it'd hold his interest long enough to do more--and on top of that he knows they reeeeally don't do it like they did. At the O2 it was a great "Led Zeppelin Review"...but not the real thing.

My opinion only....your mileage may vary...

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For those of us that have had a neverending thirst for live Zep for decades.....and have collected/heard countless recordings of Zeppelin in their prime....even finding brilliance on an off night........

After many listens of the 02 gig....from multiple sources.....I asked myself this question.

let's say you erase your memory of all the live Zep you have ever heard......including the official releases.....and the only live Zep you have ever heard was the 02 show.

Question: Would you have spent decades of your life dedicated to loving this band based only on the 02 performance?? I'm starting to lean towards no. :(

What say you??

Your question is heavily based upon live performance.

If I erase every live Zep before O2 concert, the studio albums remains "non-erased", and then the answear at your question is yes.

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For those of us that have had a neverending thirst for live Zep for decades.....and have collected/heard countless recordings of Zeppelin in their prime....even finding brilliance on an off night........

After many listens of the 02 gig....from multiple sources.....I asked myself this question.

let's say you erase your memory of all the live Zep you have ever heard......including the official releases.....and the only live Zep you have ever heard was the 02 show.

Question: Would you have spent decades of your life dedicated to loving this band based only on the 02 performance?? I'm starting to lean towards no. :(

I know it's not popular right now to say this....and I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but IMO the 02 show was a "you had to be there" moment. I myself would have loved to have been there. But I'm not going to back down to anybody that says that show is even remotely close to a 70's show(not that I ever expected it to be) and I know that alot of the glorification of it has to do with the impact of 27 yrs off. To me the only thing worth talking about is the difference JPJ and Jason on a better sounding kit than his past kits made. This gig was like a 98 P&P show w/ BALLS. But the things that drew me to love live Led Zeppelin were no where to be found. The improvs, the lightning playing by Page, the interaction w/ Plant-Page.......it just seemed too reheased and subdued. No one can expect these old dudes to recreate what they did in their 20's....and the times have definitely changed......but to say they are much more than a shell of their former self would be pushing it IMO. The spectacle of the circumstances of the whole 02 show, the cool video screen treatment, the lighting, the screaming fans all leads to quite an exiting night.....but take that away and let the music do the talking, taking yourself away from the thoughts of what it must have been like to have witnessed it...just focusing on the musical performance itself......and halfway through, I find myself digging out a Japan 71 boot to go back to the reason why I've loved this band for so long.

What say you??

That's a good thought-provoking post Honeydripper. As an older fan, I have to honestly say that yes, even the videos of the O2 performance have completely satisfied me AT THIS STAGE OF MY LIFE. I see enough energy & "balls" from all 4 members that I would consider dedicating the REST of my life, be that decades or years or just months, to purchasing & enjoying their music in whatever form it came.

However, if I were 20 yrs old today and looking at the band onstage at O2 last Monday for the first time, having no prior knowledge of them.....well truthfully, I would probably like it but would go back to listening to the music of my own peers/generation.

In other words, Zep in their 20s were perfect for me when I was a teen and Zep in their 50s & 60s are perfect for me as an (almost) senior citizen. They always "give out" exactly the right amount that I can handle at each phase of the life cycle.

I feel that way about a lot of other musicians that I have aged along with too but none other gives me the total, complete satisfaction that Led Zeppelin does.

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Certainly cant argue as a lifelong fan who saw them on the same night you did 30 yrs ago. But I think that we must reserve some judgement, especailly on Jimmy Page who after all had a bum finger. As for Robert, thats another thing, but I still believe that it is only one night. And you cant judge a band or a sports team or an individual entirely on one performance. So I dont think we can sit here and say that they could never have the magic again like in the 70s. There were songs that were done very well and I believe that if they put more time into it and played more concerts you would get some very memorable ones. After all, we are talking about legends here that are great musicians in every sense. We arent talking about the Stones who rely on Jagger period. We must give them the benefit of the doubt so to speak. Dont we at least owe them that? I hope they do play again. And I believe they will.

However, let me just add (while the Giants/Skins are in a tv break) that we should grab a beer at the Garden if they do those New York shows we expect! lol!....

(and really--if they decided to do a couple stadiums, Fed Ex field in Maryland -- right near the old Capital Center-- holds over 90 thousand people for football....I'm just sayin... ;) )

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Certainly cant argue as a lifelong fan who saw them on the same night you did 30 yrs ago. But I think that we must reserve some judgement, especailly on Jimmy Page who after all had a bum finger. As for Robert, thats another thing, but I still believe that it is only one night. And you cant judge a band or a sports team or an individual entirely on one performance. So I dont think we can sit here and say that they could never have the magic again like in the 70s. There were songs that were done very well and I believe that if they put more time into it and played more concerts you would get some very memorable ones. After all, we are talking about legends here that are great musicians in every sense. We arent talking about the Stones who rely on Jagger period. We must give them the benefit of the doubt so to speak. Dont we at least owe them that? I hope they do play again. And I believe they will.

Good point Rick, that's so true. (can I use your name here on the board? I'll come back & edit if you don't like) :wave:

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I suppose I'll wade in with what I feel on this one. I agree with you. I would have given just about anything to have been at that show, to be IN the atmosphere surrounding it, sharing in the sheer magic of knowing that that particular band would be playing in front of me in mere moments. I can only imagine the awe inspiring feelings that overwhelmed everyone there. Even sitting here at home watching the setlist grow and getting a few glimpses into the show...I was a totally excited mess. Watching the STH vid on youtube brought me to tears, happy tears though they were.

And now I sit and listen to the sources for the show...and it's a bit different. I still get a shiver just listening and knowing it's them, but the performance, great though it was...was not the same band from long ago. And how could they be? Look at where they started and the various roads they've walked to get to the 02 stage. They are no longer a young hungry band willing to bring the place down to win the crowd over and go to the next step in the career they wanted so badly. Place that beside these guys that are millionaires who have done ever so much in their lives, between all the excess and the tragedy...those guys walked out and had the crowd in the palm of their hand the moment they stepped on stage. How will you infuse all that youth, hunger, lack of fear to try anything on stage and the sheer spontaneity into those guys? It can't be the same. There will be moments that take you back, even take your breath away, but it's still not all the way there. And that's fine with me, I just wanted so badly for them to really enjoy playing together on stage again, and it seems they did. Therefore I'm happy as a clam, for myself and for them.

They put on a fantastic show, and I still wish I could have been there. But stacking this up against say, Olympia '69....and I'm going to be popping in that 1969 show...I have spent most of my life loving THAT band...and they became the one at 02...and I love that band too...but for different reasons. I'll always return to the older stuff..but I'll stick with this new incarnation too...whatever they choose to do.

Edited by Mayqueen

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Your question is heavily based upon live performance.

If I erase every live Zep before O2 concert, the studio albums remains "non-erased", and then the answear at your question is yes.

Yes it was....and I meant it that way.....you were'nt going to find any more studio releases after 82. How would you have dedicated the next 25 yrs seeking out more?

I guess I was gearing this question more for collectors of live shows. For example, some collectors are total completists that want every show from all the post Zep tours of all the members. I have several from each, but just either for extremely good sound quality or for special performances (first time playing a Zep tune live...etc..) Other than that, I've really had no desire to have more than a few P&P shows...or Plant solo shows, or Outrider tour shows, or Firm shows, or Page/Crowes shows. My true love is still old school Zep. This 02 show would be bulked into the categories of the post Zep stuff and I probably will only be listening to For Your Life 10 yrs from now.

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I appreciate all the honest responses so far. I am in no way bashing the 02 gig, it was great and felt as thrilled as the next Zep fan as it unfolded. And as the initial buzz surrounding the reunion started to wear off in the days following, questions like the one I raised in this thread came up between some friends and myself. Hyst thought I'd ask it here.....again, with absolutely no intention to besmirch the amazing show they gave last monday. But 70's Zep was just ungodly friggin good on stage!!! I still get excited as hell about liberated shows from the 69-75 period. I can never get enough of them.

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Is the old Cap Centre still there? Or did they rebuild it? Will never forget that parking lot and woods as long as I live.

Nope--they knocked it down. There's a shopping mall there now. Fed Ex Field is very nearby tho--in Landover. (As those of us familiar with the Crap Ctr know, it was actually in Largo, not Landover as most records of those shows state).

The parking lot was the greatest. Many a fantastic pre-show party in that ol' lot....

Liberty Bell lot...or Stars and Stripes?

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I guess I was gearing this question more for collectors of live shows. For example, some collectors are total completists that want every show from all the post Zep tours of all the members. I have several from each, but just either for extremely good sound quality or for special performances (first time playing a Zep tune live...etc..) Other than that, I've really had no desire to have more than a few P&P shows...or Plant solo shows, or Outrider tour shows, or Firm shows, or Page/Crowes shows. My true love is still old school Zep. This 02 show would be bulked into the categories of the post Zep stuff and I probably will only be listening to For Your Life 10 yrs from now.

(sorry for my poor english)

I understand better now that your question was for collectors live shows as I am not (I have only a few shows) and then I can't really answear your question.

so do I -->"I've really had no desire to have more than a few P&P shows...or Plant solo shows, or Outrider tour shows, or Firm shows, or Page/Crowes shows. My true love is still old school Zep. "

Anyway I regret I can't speak well english to tell my true felling wich is very close to the "mayqueen post" before.

tks anyway for your answear

rgds

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Nope--they knocked it down. There's a shopping mall there now. Fed Ex Field is very nearby tho--in Landover. (As those of us familiar with the Crap Ctr know, it was actually in Largo, not Landover as most records of those shows state).

The parking lot was the greatest. Many a fantastic pre-show party in that ol' lot....

Liberty Bell lot...or Stars and Stripes?

Nope, everything south of Rt 214, is Largo...like the MVA, PG Community College, everything from there till you get to Upper Marlboro. The north side is Landover...as in the old Landover mall just across Rt 202 from Fed Ex. Edited by Honeydripper

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Nope, everything south of Rt 214, is Largo...like the MVA, PG Community College, everything from there till you get to Upper Marlboro. The north side is Landover...as in the old Landover mall just across Rt 202 from Fed Ex.

So Rt 202 north of 214 is Landover Rd, and south of 214 is Largo Rd. And I see Cap Ctr Blvd is north of 214.

Why then was the Cap Ctr always advertised as being in Largo? Or was that my Virginia-side of the Beltway thinking....? :D

Edited by Riff156

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Yes it was....and I meant it that way.....you were'nt going to find any more studio releases after 82. How would you have dedicated the next 25 yrs seeking out more?

I guess I was gearing this question more for collectors of live shows. For example, some collectors are total completists that want every show from all the post Zep tours of all the members. I have several from each, but just either for extremely good sound quality or for special performances (first time playing a Zep tune live...etc..) Other than that, I've really had no desire to have more than a few P&P shows...or Plant solo shows, or Outrider tour shows, or Firm shows, or Page/Crowes shows. My true love is still old school Zep. This 02 show would be bulked into the categories of the post Zep stuff and I probably will only be listening to For Your Life 10 yrs from now.

I'm the same, add in the first half of the 75 and 77 US tours then the whole of the 80 tour as periods that don't espeically interest me. Being only 29 I don't collect live Zep out of nostalgia though nore merely because there one of my favourite bands(the live recordings are a large part of them becoming my favourite), I collect because the peak years were so outstanding. That something isnt good enough to cause be to track down every semi listenible recording like I do for 69-73 doesnt mark it out as a bad performance though.

Edited by greenman

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