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The Real Nelson Mandela


apantherfrommd

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No one tried to turn a thread around or change any hearts and minds, he's just a controversial figure. Having said that, I haven't seen this level of just shut up and color, mandated mourning since Princess Diana's untimely passing. Stands to reason as both were to some extent pop culture/celebrity icons...famous for being famous.

I can't see how you can mention both personalities in the same sentence?

Paris Hilton is famous for being famous.

Out of all the people that attended or mourned don't you think that any of them knew of Mandela's activities years ago?

I see he was at many times less than perfect but when his hand was forced he had to fight fire with fire.And bottom line both he he and De Klerk were responsible for dismantling apartheid in it's worst form.

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This thread was made out of respect for those who were honoring Mandela, who didn't appreciate people not honoring him.

As for that "perspective", I'd consider the source, as well as it's politically leaning perspective. I'm not surprised it's lost more than half it's viewers in one year.

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What??

You didn't have respect for the disbelievers when you opened this thread,it was to show all about the Real Mandela with your own agenda.

If this thread is an attempt to "open mine eyes" to the imperfect man that Mandela was.I already knew that.

The thread is fast losing impetus and substance and I don't really understand what you hope to achieve here besides sharing that you strongly dislike the man.

Whatever your thoughts are on the source,and I have no idea about it's viewing numbers,I posted it to give a balanced opinion as I did with my quoted posts in the RIP thread.

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CNN isn't perspective.

It's much closer to propaganda.

Did you read the link?

I'd be interested on your thoughts within it more than the source.

Anyway,here's more for all:

Nelson Mandela was already 75 when he became President in 1994, and relied heavily on his deputy, Thabo Mbeki, for the running of the day-to-day business of government. To many he appeared more like a constitutional monarch than a chief executive.

It was a role he discharged brilliantly, as when he associated himself with South Africa’s victory in the Rugby World Cup of 1995. He continued to preach the gospel of reconciliation, not least to the Afrikaners. He went to see ex-President Botha, who took advantage of the occasion to warn him against Communists. He took tea with Betsy Verwoerd, the widow of Hendrik Verwoerd, the intellectual builder of apartheid. Mandela even found time for a lunch with Percy Yutar, the vindictive prosecutor who had tried to have him executed at the Rivonia Trial. A mellow and humbled Yutar declared that he was struck by “the great humility of this saintly man”.

But though Mandela was eager to forgive, he did not mean people to forget. The Truth and Reconciliation Committee was set up in 1996 to investigate the crimes of the apartheid years; and Mandela supported its findings even when some were strongly critical of the ANC.

He gave up the leadership of the ANC in 1997, handing over to Thabo Mbeki. Though 79, he spoke for four-and-a-half hours at the party’s conference, standing up in a stifling hall. In uncharacteristically negative vein, he warned the ANC against corruption, criticised white businessmen, and raised the spectre of an Afrikaner counter-revolution.

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Sure, I respect those as well, who think the same as myself. It was out of respect for everyone. However, people in the RIP thread, were really upset at some valid points. Nutrocker suggested opening another thread. For the sake of peace and other's points of views, I thought it would be alright to comply. I have my own views as well, and agreed with the points others SteveAJones, cryingbluerain, redrum. On the RIP thread, there was such an outcry arguments and disappearing posts, I figured why not open a thread. I think someone even got banned on the RIP thread.

Ross, I'm a firm believer in freedom of speech. I should also respect that people honor the dead. If there was another agenda, my motive would be to have a thread open for those who agreed and disagreed with my view, your view or anyone else's. I'm not out to open your eyes. People can do that as much as they want. I respect that you have a perspective. You can take what you want from the thread and leave behind what you don't like.

I expected this thread to be 3 or 4 posts, maybe. Not 4 pages. I guess there was a lot more to be said.

I sincerely wish no less than the best to you and yours, this Christmas season. And don't step on those darn African brown snakes down there. ;)

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The rest of the world? If we go down so does everybody else.

Ha yeah I'm sure. Without the bald eagle watching this beautiful rock, how can regular people ever possibly survive!

The rest of the world, ie everywhere outside America. Well I guess the $1.3Trillion dollars in debts that the US owes to China would hit them hard.

You really need to understand that not every country or person in the world sees the US as the altruistic cavalry still riding in to save everyone.

We, as Americans, always seem to forget that civilization existed LONGGGGGG before we did.

Fixed that for you.

In fact, you didn't.

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I care more about the death of Walter White than I do about Nelson Mandela.

Walter White will go down in American History as one of the Greatest fictional character of all-time. And that is a real Testament to Bryan Cranston and the character that He won 3 Emmy's for.

Nelson Mandela and his legacy will vanish in less than a year.

Edited to add: From what I read and know, Nelson Mandela was never the "clean cut" person some people make him out to be. He is Dead and never a friend to the Unites States of America.

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I care more about the death of Walter White than I do about Nelson Mandela.

Walter White will go down in American History as one of the Greatest fictional character of all-time. And that is a real Testament to Bryan Cranston and the character that He won 3 Emmy's for.

Nelson Mandela and his legacy will vanish in less than a year.

Edited to add: From what I read and know, Nelson Mandela was never the "clean cut" person some people make him out to be. He is Dead and never a friend to the Unites States of America.

:poke::lol: Nice one.

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Reading this thread made me realize that Star Wars is actually a "terrorist movie" then.........

In the first Star Wars movie the rebels steal some plans and then destroy the Death Star space station. A quick web search reveals how many people were actually on the Death Star at the time:

265,675 Station crew

52,276 gunners

607,360 troops

25,984 Stormtroopers

42,782 ship support staff

167,216 pilots and support crew

That’s over a million people, and that’s only a conservative estimate. A million people. They kill a million people and then fly back to their planet and then they give out medals?

What about the million mothers all over the Empire who lose their children, most of whom were probably conscripted? Not to mention the people who are just doing their jobs: the cleaners, and programmers, and dishwashers, and pizza chefs, and all the prisoners in the holding cells. All suddenly dead.

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Right or wrong, he was a hero to his people and their homeland. South Africa was invaded by the British and the Dutch, plus they were tribal and the Zulus claimed the land as their own too.

Anyone who kills innocent people are either terrorists or freedom fighters.

It depends on your own point of view which is which.

The west has inflicted more deaths on innocent people in Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq to name a few, than the ANC ever did.

Funny how we dismiss it as "collateral damage" or "friendly fire"?

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Now it's official...this thread has 'jumped the shark'.

A valiant and admirable effort on your part, apantherfrommd and others, but the king has spoken.

Agreed. Another thread overrun by the insipid.

OK, seriously -

Did he really just say that? :blink:

He's either retarded or one of the biggest trolls this board has ever seen.

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Did you read the link?

I'd be interested on your thoughts within it more than the source.

Anyway,here's more for all:

Yes, actually.

It's what I'd expect.

Rationalization and marginalization of known facts.

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Bosnia/Herzegovina (1996-2006) is a fairly recent and undeniably significant example of direct U.S. intervention to stop genocide/ethnic cleansing.

Yes and Darfur is a fairly recent and undeniably significant example of direct U.S. non-intervention regarding genocide.

Everybody loves to knock us until they need us.

Who, pray tell, "needs" us? Who is in mortal danger if the United States simply vanishes? Africa or the Middle East? With the exception of Israel, we already don't protect them from shit.

Asia? China, Russia, India, and Pakistan already run the continent, we have no control over it whatsoever, so nothing over there changes. Maybe Japan gets knocked around and that's a really big fucking maybe because Japan is an economic powerhouse and most countries have no reason to topple them anymore.

What about South America? The rest of North America? Absolutely not. Who's going to invade Mexico or Canada simply because the US is gone? What about Chile?

Europe? Honestly, who is going to attack Europe? Rather, who COULD invade Western Europe?

You're punch-drunk off American pop culture. Put down Call of Duty and throw away Independence Day. Go watch Restrepo or something.

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Nice find by redrum, as well. You got guts. You know they're gonna label you a racist for those posts. Probably me too for this thread. I don't think any of those that spoke contrary to the sainthood of Mandela are pro apartheid. From what I've read on their posts, there's nothing of the like. However, if someone is being crystalized as a saint in the press, people will be labeled something one way or another for speaking negatively, even if it's the truth.

Winnie "Necklace" Mandela?

Hell, I knew about Winnie's deeds way back in the 80's. Emotion always trumps reality.

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