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IzzyBlues

ITTOD - Why is this the most disliked album of Led Zeppelin?

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I'll never understand how this album can be thought of as anything short of great if one understands what made Zeppelin so special. I've always felt it was their crowning achievement stylistically. There is so much wonderful variety on the album. It is often said that Page is absent on this record, for reasons I don't understand, for some of his finest moments are on this record. The explosive solo that launches the mid section of "In The Evening". The gorgeous tone of his melodic solo on "South Bound Suarez". "Hot Dog" is amazing due to his guitar licks and "I'm Gonna Crawl" features his finest and most elegant solo that he ever put on record.

Robert's finest moments as a lyricist are on this album (Fool In The Rain, All My Love, I'm Gonna Crawl).

The melancholy on this album is so sweet that it drips for longing.

I always felt that the songs flow with an emotional concept, shifting from one mood to another. You have the sheer joy of South Bound Suarez, the bittersweet love of Fool In The Rain, a moment of humor with Hot Dog (which is always essential), you have the seeds of adventure and journey with Carouselambra, sorrow and the hope of future in All My Love and the after hours blues of I'm Gonna Crawl that brings everything back home again.

So there is more to In Through The Out Door than what meets the eye. Add to all of this the aesthetic joy of the packaging and various album covers and you have Zeppelin saving their best for last.

This album sounds better and better with time. The detractors are free to dislike it but the album itself endures. As does all the work of this amazing band.

Yep. Although I will add that it would have helped if the album had been produced/mixed better.

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It is far different than Led Zeppelin albums before it. It's not a real hard album either. Has much less less Jimmy Page input than previous albums which is why it sounds different. (Every Zeppelin album sounds different. This one is more different.) I mean, those who became attracted to Led Zeppelin because of Led Zeppelin II or Led Zeppelin IV, they hear ITTOD and they are shocked by it.

Many years ago when I first heard ITTOD I didn't like it. Then I got to where I liked it okay. Then I got to where I realized it is a great album!

ITTOD is one of those albums that isn't instantly appealing but someday, when you least expect it, will hit you like a ton of bricks! I think it's a brilliant album.

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Robert's finest moments as a lyricist are on this album (Fool In The Rain, All My Love, I'm Gonna Crawl).

While I agree with most of what you said, how do you leave out Carouselambra for finest lyical moments??? Unless, of course, you have no idea what the song is about. But my God man... Carouselambra is just oozing with amazing lyrics!!!

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i think there is a difference between least favorite simply cuz the other are so amazing and "worst' i love ITTOD and carouselambra..well what he said above...yes!

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ITTOD is a brilliant album all around, for all the reasons stated above and more. I was / am happy the album sounded so different, IMO that is what it is all about as a musician, keeping it fresh for yourselves as musicians. No musician or band owes their audience a god damn thing, if they are not making music to feed their own artistic fire then they are simply making music for the money, honeys', drugs, and lifestyle...you could not be more disingenuous unless you were a Wall Street hedge fund manager.

So, Page was absent? Hmm, some of his best solos are on this album (ITE, FITR, HD, & IGC). Yes, I said Hot Dog! HD is only underrated IMO due to the country / rockabilly vibe. This is a fun song that rocks. As a 30+ year guitar player I can tell you this, HD is a damn hard song to get down right, the riff is pure legato & pull-offs done very quickly in a stop-start fashion. It took a few days to get it down but then an extra few weeks to make it flow plus the solo is controlled chaos...great tune.

So, for all those who feel ITTOD is not genuine "Zeppelin," that is your opinion, however it is misplaced in the context most are using. I respect when someone says, "um, I just don't like the musical direction they took" but I don't respect when they try to blame this musical direction on dope and apathy, thats complete bullshit.

Then again there is always going to be that set that wants their Zeppelin just like fucking AC/DC. You know, a band which has openly said on interview after interview that they have not made a new album since Back in Black, they just redo all of those songs for each album since then, give them new titles and lyrics, and call it a day. If that's your thing good for you but please don't complain when Zeppelin or anyone else choses to be creative vs. just a fucking cash cow. Zeppelin has always exemplified to me what it means to be a professional musician whereas AC/DC and those akin to them represent the absolute worst. AC/DC made amazing music with Bon Scott then chucked it all for the cash grab. No thanks.

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True art often flies right over peoples heads anyway. What are ya gonna do, If they don't get it, they don't get it. There is nothing we can do but except their shallow depths while they rail against pure genius. :suntan:

Edited by juxtiphi

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So, Page was absent? Hmm, some of his best solos are on this album (ITE, FITR, HD, & IGC). Yes, I said Hot Dog! HD is only underrated IMO due to the country / rockabilly vibe. This is a fun song that rocks. As a 30+ year guitar player I can tell you this, HD is a damn hard song to get down right, the riff is pure legato & pull-offs done very quickly in a stop-start fashion. It took a few days to get it down but then an extra few weeks to make it flow plus the solo is controlled chaos...great tune.

Yea I've never understood some of the hate for Hot Dog, it's a great guitar song.

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Nice to see some favourable comments re ITTOD lately. Everyone knows that I love it, but for a while it felt like "Juxt..." and I were the last two holding the fort. Brilliant album on every level. Just a remarkable piece of work.

Edited by The Dark Lord

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Nice to see some favourable comments re ITTOD lately. Everyone knows that I love it, but for a while it felt like "Juxt..." and I were the last two holding the fort. Brilliant album on every level. Just a remarkable piece of work.

I will defend ITTOD until I die.

In The Evening is 100% Led Zeppelin! Mysterious and hard hitting. The solo in South Bound Saurez is Killer and tells a story of biting excess. Plant's vocal on Fool In The Rain makes the song catchy and hard to forget. The way they break down into the batucada section is pure genius. Hot Dog shows just how "ON" Jimmy was for this album with its complex workout and grinches say its filler but I bet he wanted that song on there for the reason I mentioned. The grinches also talk about Jimmy's supposed absence but he is so fucking big on Carouselambra I can't believe that people really don't see this. his sound on this album is nothing short of AMAZING!, His solo's are awesome and just because he allowed John Paul Jones more room to breath didn't mean he was past it! it shows how receptive and respectful he was too good ideas from his band mates. All My Love is probably one of the most beautiful ballads dedicated to a child ever written and Plant is nothing short of amazing on this track. This is why jimmy seems so minimal on this song, Its all about Robert and Jimmy's quit presence shows his respect for the man. last we have I'm Gonna Crawl, This song is huge! Its only 5 minutes and change but it comes across as big as Since I've Been loving You, Ten years Gone and Tea For One all wrapped up in one like a supermassive black hole of emotion. The slow pace sweeps you along like a star riding the event horizon. Then, Jimmy's very restrained but highly emotional solo slowly begins to stretch you out as you pass the point of no return. Finally, entering the swirling vortex completely, Bonham pounds us to dust and I think we can all relate to have been crushed by love.

Grinches also whine about the mix. There is nothing wrong with the mix, it sounded fine to my ears then and it sounds fine to my ears today. As I wrote this, I listened to I'm Gonna Crawl and had goose bumps. To the grinches who don't understand this album, you want to take off the emotional blinders when listening to it and if you still find that you cannot relate to the themes expressed in the songs then you may need to check the size of your heart.

:party:

:chickeddance:Merry Christmas Everybody!!! :chickeddance:

Edited by juxtiphi

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I will defend ITTOD until I die.

In The Evening is 100% Led Zeppelin! Mysterious and hard hitting. The solo in South Bound Saurez is Killer and tells a story of biting excess. Plant's vocal on Fool In The Rain makes the song catchy and hard to forget. The way they break down into the batucada section is pure genius. Hot Dog shows just how "ON" Jimmy was for this album with its complex workout and grinches say its filler but I bet he wanted that song on there for the reason I mentioned. The grinches also talk about Jimmy's supposed absence but he is so fucking big on Carouselambra I can't believe that people really don't see this. his sound on this album is nothing short of AMAZING!, His solo's are awesome and just because he allowed John Paul Jones more room to breath didn't mean he was past it! it shows how receptive and respectful he was too good ideas from his band mates. All My Love is probably one of the most beautiful ballads dedicated to a child ever written and Plant is nothing short of amazing on this track. This is why jimmy seems so minimal on this song, Its all about Robert and Jimmy's quit presence shows his respect for the man. last we have I'm Gonna Crawl, This song is huge! Its only 5 minutes and change but it comes across as big as Since I've Been loving You, Ten years Gone and Tea For One all wrapped up in one like a supermassive black hole of emotion. The slow pace sweeps you along like a star riding the event horizon. Then, Jimmy's very restrained but highly emotional solo slowly begins to stretch you out as you pass the point of no return. Finally, entering the swirling vortex completely, Bonham pounds us to dust and I think we can all relate to have been crushed by love.

Grinches also whine about the mix. There is nothing wrong with the mix, it sounded fine to my ears then and it sounds fine to my ears today. As I wrote this, I listened to I'm Gonna Crawl and had goose bumps. To the grinches who don't understand this album you want to take off the emotional blinders when listening to it and if you still find that you cannot relate to the themes expressed in the songs then you

may need to check the size of your heart. :party:

:chickeddance:Merry Christmas Everybody!!! :chickeddance:

:bravo::bravo::bravo:

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Hi all, brand spanking new member here, been lurking on the forum the last six months or so - some great conversations going - and finally decided to register and throw in my own two cents (for what they're worth)... be gentle everyone, it's my first time!

In Through the Out Door was the sound of a band both in transition and, frankly, worn out; it has some monumental moments alongside some thoroughly decent stuff, but it's clearly not a band running at optimal efficiency... Plant was understandably grief-stricken and uncomfortable at the monster that Zep had become, Pagey was tripping the light fantastic on Planet 'H', whilst Bonzo's alcoholism had gotten completely out of control and was affecting his stamina and overall playing ability; in short, they simply weren't the band they were between 1968-75, although even in their compromised state, they were STILL better than everyone else... sheer raw talent always shines through ultimately.

Two things would have made it better (and this is just a purely subjective opinion); firstly, it may have been better to have made it a double album (including the three tracks later featured on Coda alongside a couple others, either new or previously unreleased), and secondly, a better final mix would have helped immeasurably; it sounds at times like it was recorded in a biscuit tin - with the lid closed - Wearing and Tearing should sound just immense, but it sounds muddy and murky, imagine it with the clean, crisp, clear production of every album before it... how awesome would that song have been then!?

Anyway, that's it for now, first post done, hopefully not the last...

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Nice to see some favourable comments re ITTOD lately. Everyone knows that I love it, but for a while it felt like "Juxt..." and I were the last two holding the fort. Brilliant album on every level. Just a remarkable piece of work.

Once I speak my peace, I usually leave it at that unless someone asks me a direct question or directs a comment towards my post, but I know I am on here somewhere defending "In Through the Out Door". You and Juxtiphi are not alone by any means.

By the way, when I mention the mix, I am not saying the entire album doesn't sound good. For the most part, instrumentally it sounds a-ok. My issue is with how buried Plant's vocals are on some of the songs...in particular the songs in which Plant wrote some of his best lyrics, i.e. "Carouselambra". A lyrics sheet would have been helpful to include with this album. Much more so than "Houses of the Holy", the only Led Zeppelin album with the lyrics included. Ironic, since "Houses of the Holy" features possibly the most clear vocals Plant recorded with Led Zeppelin.

Merry Christmas.

Edited by Strider

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^ I agree about the vocals mix, interesting choices there.... I also feel that it was an album in transition, but to something that was not to be, so it feels to fans like they've been left hanging. It does take a little to get used to what Zep were trying to do, but if stripped of expectations or comparisons to previous sounds, it's a fine album in its own right. Not my favourite overall, but ITTOD has some wonderful songs on it, with "Fool in the Rain" and "South Bound Saurez" on the fun (and from the sounds of it, fun to play) end and "All My Love" and "I'm Gonna Crawl" bookending a mature reflective side.

It sounds like a band whose members were grown men now who had gone through a thing or two; experienced, yes, but also a bit weary for it and in the process of getting their feet under the table. It does not sound tired to me at all, just again transitional, like a bridge that didn't get to reach the other side.

Nevertheless, the musicianship was, as always, exceptional.

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Once I speak my peace, I usually leave it at that unless someone asks me a direct question or directs a comment towards my post, but I know I am on here somewhere defending "In Through the Out Door". You and Juxtiphi are not alone by any means.

By the way, when I mention the mix, I am not saying the entire album doesn't sound good. For the most part, instrumentally it sounds a-ok. My issue is with how buried Plant's vocals are on some of the songs...in particular the songs in which Plant wrote some of his best lyrics, i.e. "Carouselambra". A lyrics sheet would have been helpful to include with this album. Much more so than "Houses of the Holy", the only Led Zeppelin album with the lyrics included. Ironic, since "Houses of the Holy" features possibly the most clear vocals Plant recorded with Led Zeppelin.

Merry Christmas.

I agree that you have also been a big supporter of ITTOD. You and I share similar opinions and experiences with that album. Juxt and I happily welcome you to the club. Funny how this album has sparked one of the most vibrant threads on this board, despite the fact that it is a controversial release.

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Much has been said about how this was a Plant-Jones album since they always arrived at the studio early and apparently Page-Bonham turned up during the wee hours simply to add their parts.

I believe this is incorrect, and from what I have read I believe I may have a nice little theory.

Supposedly Plant quit all drugs following the death of Karak (accepting alcohol, and he never was a big drinker) which may have resulted in a more normal schedule for Plant. Instead of being the night owl like Page & Bonham he had become somewhat of a regular guy during the hiatus from August 77' - November 78' when they recorded ITTOD. This resulted in the two sober, and more mature members showing up during regular hours. Page & Bonham however were in the depths of heroin & alcohol addiction so they probably did not even get out of bed until 6pm, though I believe they were still very much a part of the input even though Page did relinquish much of the writing control to Jones, but this may have been intentional not due to drugs but because Page may have been short on ideas, the man is not an endless wellspring of musical genius ya know.

So what resulted was a much more mature, experimental album, kinda like a Beatles album if George Harrison was the primary composer. That being said the only flaw I have with the album is the same one Strider has, the vocals are buried in the mix. Other than that I love this album and I sure as hell like it better than Zep 1 which to me is their weakest album.

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I'm sure everyone here wonders what the follow up album would have been like. It probably would have come out in 1981 or 1982. I think it would have had elements of ITTOD, Death Wish II, and probably been a harder album. Probably a song or two like Wearing and Tearing, possibly. Maybe even a slight New Wave element as well. Just my assumption.

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Why does it always have to be that page was washed up or drugged out or not around. The guy has respect for the musical ideas of his band mates. Just because Jimmy allowed Jones freedom doesn't mean he was unable to participate.

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It's the sound of a mature band making great music. Too bad it suffers from reputation. I get the impression people too young to have heard it when released have prejudiced opinions about it before they give it a chance. IMO it has some of their most thought out songs on it.

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Precisely, a mature band making mature music. It is one of my favorites.

That album was ushering in a new era of LZ - the 80's but alas ...

I always thought Presence was the most obscure album but I think the votes? may be lower for ITTOD because the all of the previous albums had more recognizable(popular) hits:

1: CB, DAC

2: WLL, HB

3: IS, SIBLY

4,5: etc Achilles

The songs that newbies and the popular crowd are aware of..

Edit: HS!!, read Juxt's post #259 - it is spot on!

Edited by riffsofpage

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The ONLY beef I have with this album, is that Plant's vocals are buried in "Carouselambra" which pisses me off, and I do hope on the new addition of ITTOD that a new mix is also released from a vocal point of view for Carouselambra, or at the very least a lyric sheet. Besides that, the rest of the album is gold

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The ONLY beef I have with this album, is that Plant's vocals are buried in "Carouselambra" which pisses me off, and I do hope on the new addition of ITTOD that a new mix is also released from a vocal point of view for Carouselambra, or at the very least a lyric sheet. Besides that, the rest of the album is gold

It's interesting, because that does not bother me in the least. In fact, I think it creates a sense of urgency, and trying to stay afloat as the song pounds forward. I would not expect a remix, as I think that Plant's vocal was kept low in the mix on purpose, unlike the other songs on the album. It's annoying to some, but I think if you look at this vocal mix as an intended outcome, the song may be easier to accept.

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As someone who is really looking forward to the remastered releases of Physical Graffiti, Presence and In Through The Outdoor, I hope that part of the remastering exercise includes efforts to bring Plant's vocals to songs like "Carouselambra" front and centre, to make it more decipherable to the listener. "Carouselambra" happens to be one of my all-time favourite Led Zeppelin songs not because of Plant's vocals but because of the guitar riffs and the sound of the keyboard. I did look up the lyrics to this song and needless to say, I was astounded! I thought lyrics to songs like "Stairway To Heaven" and "The Battle of Evermore" were beautiful but now IMHO, "Carouselambra" is nothing short of a masterpiece, based on the lyrics alone! I did feel pretty indignant on making this discovery since I was denied the pleasure of taking in the wonderful lyrics written by Plant for this song amidst all the wonderfully rockin' guitar riffs and keyboard sounds!

Edited by Kiwi_Zep_Fan87

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Even if Jimmy doesn't do much to Carouselambra, the vocals will probably be more front and center on the second disc. If he doesn't do anything, there's going to be a lot of complaints.

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Agreed Dark Lord, the mystery of trying to decipher what Plant says on Carouselambra really adds to it. Also, I love his newly emerged voice on this album, totally re-created what from what it was. Again, what a track. My favourite of all their songs. Even the dated sounding synth intro. is perfect, it sounds like something from that old Logan's Run movie!

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Even if Jimmy doesn't do much to Carouselambra, the vocals will probably be more front and center on the second disc. If he doesn't do anything, there's going to be a lot of complaints.

Don't count on it, an instrumental is more likely than an upfront vocal.

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